conservative minimum range (with climate, highway etc.)

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Homer

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
59
A friend was in the market for a new car for a daily commute and I was trying to convince him that a spark would be perfect for him-- the savings in gas would probably pay for the lease-- but he was concerned about range.

It got me thinking about how I would describe the range of spark to someone who's not buying it as an EV but as a cheap commuting car (i.e., probably ok with preheating the car but not with riding around with a blanket). We're in MD so we get a week or two every winter with temps in in the low teens and below, and a couple weeks in the summer with temps in the upper 90s. Also, his commute (like a lot of people's) involves some highway driving-- although not always at highway speeds of course.

Based on experience with my fairly new car, I would think that between climate and highway driving, 40 miles is a reasonable estimate of worst case range (so unless my friend can find a charger at work, he shouldn't buy it unless he's within 20 miles of his work).

In the end I think due to gas prices being low or the new technology being a negative for him instead of an advantage, I don't think my friend is going to get a spark. But I am curious what others would tell their friends is a reliable commuting zone for the spark.
 
I tell people the Spark can go between 70 and 110 miles depending on speed, temps, and how much stop and go you have.

Bryce
 
The worst I've seen on my display is an estimated range of 66 mi. The best GOM was 94 mi.

I drive in some seriously cold conditions. And I drive fast and comfortable on 85% Interstates, at +70 mph.

If he is worried about the 'Early Adopter' aspect of the Spark EV, he could lease.

Or wait for the Bolt !
 
Bryce--70 to 110 miles is far too much for a "conservative minimum range."

I have a 56 mile commute (2/3rd on the highway with traffic flowing above 70mph) and that's on the upper end to always have comfortable reserves. I occasionally have to tailor my driving style to get back home with more than 10% battery remaining. That tailoring usually is in the form of going slower than desired or using less climate control.

For a genuinely conservative commute, I'd recommend no more than 45 miles total with a Spark EV. That gives you flexibility to use a few extra miles during lunch or going home, for food or errands, and still have margin for cold weather, headwinds, etc.
 
I hope by "range" you mean total round trip distance. Unless an EVSE or DCFC is known to be available approximately half way from the starting point, you need to have a plan to be able to return to your starting point without being able to add charge to the car's HV battery. This necessitates knowing your car's mi / kWh performance under various climate conditions with cold weather performance being the most important.

Added note: Today, after my 2014 Spark EV had been out all night in 40 deg. F weather, I jumped into it, turned on the heater in AUTO mode with the temperature set to 71 deg. F and took off at 55 mph to my destination 17.6 miles away in Modesto, CA. When I arrived at my destination I found I had used 4.5 kWh for 3.9 mi / kWh. I started out with a reading of 2.7 mi / kWh. I have seen similar performance in weather in the mid 30s too. 3.9 mi/kWh would give me a range of about 70 miles before calling the tow truck.
 
NORTON said:
The worst I've seen on my display is an estimated range of 66 mi. The best GOM was 94 mi.

I drive in some seriously cold conditions. And I drive fast and comfortable on 85% Interstates, at +70 mph.

If he is worried about the 'Early Adopter' aspect of the Spark EV, he could lease.

Or wait for the Bolt !

I actually was motivated to post this by getting in the car and seeing an estimated range of 60 one day last week after a cold spell (although after picking up my kid at school and driving home I think it still said 60).

I guess that raises a question-- I have an unfortunate tendency towards a lead foot. Is the starting range based on past experience with driving style and climate usage, or is it based just on battery (maybe with assumptions about climate use?) and it's only after you start driving that the car starts adjusting up/down based on actual use/conditions?
 
Homer said:
NORTON said:
The worst I've seen on my display is an estimated range of 66 mi. The best GOM was 94 mi.

I drive in some seriously cold conditions. And I drive fast and comfortable on 85% Interstates, at +70 mph.

If he is worried about the 'Early Adopter' aspect of the Spark EV, he could lease.

Or wait for the Bolt !

I actually was motivated to post this by getting in the car and seeing an estimated range of 60 one day last week after a cold spell (although after picking up my kid at school and driving home I think it still said 60).

I guess that raises a question-- I have an unfortunate tendency towards a lead foot. Is the starting range based on past experience with driving style and climate usage, or is it based just on battery (maybe with assumptions about climate use?) and it's only after you start driving that the car starts adjusting up/down based on actual use/conditions?
Given the battery's current state-of-charge, the blue ball "guess-o-meter" is the car computer's best estimate of the range you will be able to drive IF you continue driving at the miles / kWh value the computer has calculated and stored in its memory. Unfortunately, you do not know what that number is and it is only an estimate. I am not sure just how much historical driving data the computer uses for calculating the estimate you see. I do know the guess-o-meter value will drop quickly with lead-foot acceleration and use of the heater. One trick I use is to note the guess-o-meter estimate number before I drive off. I also reset the trip meter to 0 miles and the mi/kWh value defaults to 4.4 mi/kWh. As I drive, I can mentally add the current guess-o-meter reading to the miles the trip meter says I have traveled. If the total is greater than or equal to the starting guess-o-meter number, then I am driving in a manner that should allow me to achieve or exceed the range originally shown at the start of the trip. The opposite is true too. If the total is less than the original starting guess-o-meter number, then my driving range will be less than the starting estimate and I will need calculate just how far I can go. I do this by taking note of the mi/kWh on the trip meter and multiplying that number by the number of kWh remaining in my battery to get my estimated range remaining before I call the tow truck. I calculate the number of kWh remaining in the battery by using the information found on the Energy Details screen (push the leaf button below the radio). I subtract the number of kWh used from the full-charge usable kWh for my battery (I use 21 for my 2014 Spark EV and 18 for my 2015 Spark EV). This gives me an estimate of the remaining charge in my battery. It is also key to reset the trip meter at the start of each trip so it displays more accurate almost-real-time mi/kWh info for the trip. This is all easier to do than it sounds and it works. At 3 mi/kWh and 18 kWh maximum battery capacity, I get a worst case range estimate of 54 miles and that still works for my driving needs while allowing me to stay nice and warm in mid 30s weather. You can expect the worst performance from the car in extremely cold weather by letting the car sit out all night in the cold weather, not pre-heating the cabin while the car is still plugged in and driving off on very short trips of less than 4 miles while running the heater. I have, in low to mid 30s weather, experienced as lows 2.0 kWh for the first mile or two, Then, once the heater starts warming up the cabin, the heater current draw starts to slowly drop and the mi/kWh value on the trip meter starts to rise. By the 4 mile point my trip meter has risen to 3 - 3.5 mi/kWh, and, in as few miles more, it has risen to 4-4.3 mi/kWh. I have not tried this at speeds > 50-55 mph but I would expect to see lower values. NOTE: all of this assumes you have not done any partial charges since your last full charge. A full charge resets the usage number to zero. Partial charges allow the usage number to just keep adding up and not be reset.
 
Homer said:
I have an unfortunate tendency towards a lead foot.
Range depends on many factors, lead foot being one of the negatives (and old battery and ...). I made a model of SparkEV energy use based on spot measured data in my blog, then made data tables. Combining few "guesstimate" models, I find that average is a conservative estimate of range. Scroll down to "Edit Feb.23, 2016" table if you want to skip explanations on how I arrived at the data.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/01/sparkev-range.html

If you plan to drive at least some highway, you can take max speed you plan to drive, look up the mean range, and that'll give you conservative estimate. Take 10 miles away from that as a buffer in case the destination charger is broken. If you run the heater/AC, it gets tricky as they may not be full blast all the time (or maybe you're trying to cook/freeze people in car?), but taking 10% off for running heat/AC at 30F to 90F weather might be reasonable (then take 10 miles off as buffer after 10% cut). Note that this only applies to new battery, and older battery will be less range.
 
SparkevBlogspot said:
Homer said:
I have an unfortunate tendency towards a lead foot.
Range depends on many factors, lead foot being one of the negatives (and old battery and ...). I made a model of SparkEV energy use based on spot measured data in my blog, then made data tables. Combining few "guesstimate" models, I find that average is a conservative estimate of range. Scroll down to "Edit Feb.23, 2016" table if you want to skip explanations on how I arrived at the data.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/01/sparkev-range.html

If you plan to drive at least some highway, you can take max speed you plan to drive, look up the mean range, and that'll give you conservative estimate. Take 10 miles away from that as a buffer in case the destination charger is broken. If you run the heater/AC, it gets tricky as they may not be full blast all the time (or maybe you're trying to cook/freeze people in car?), but taking 10% off for running heat/AC at 30F to 90F weather might be reasonable (then take 10 miles off as buffer after 10% cut). Note that this only applies to new battery, and older battery will be less range.
I agree. After 9 months of driving both of my Spark EVs, I now have a good idea of what mi/kWh value for each car I can expect for the different driving conditions I encounter and I always allow a large buffer in case of surprises. So far it has been working in both hot and cold weather.
 
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