Sad day..

Traded the spark EV straight up for a 500e. The idea had been brewing in my head since the start of the year and with my commute being 10mi longer (translate: I'm driving and charging more frequently), the 3.3kw onboard charger became a big distraction. I didn't think it would be a big deal for the past year and had convinced myself that charging would be a non-issue since it'll be plugged in at night anyway, but then faced with the realization that between work and the 8-9hr charging time, there wouldn't be any time left in the day to run errands or have any plans. I'm at the mercy of the car until it's a full charge.

I was actually considering the 500e when I was shopping for the spark but the price-value just wasn't there at the time (msrp wise). With so many return leases going for $7-8k for under 10k mi, it was just too good of a deal to pass up. My spark was a 2016 with 7k mi and the 500e I traded for was a 2015 with 9k mi. I will miss the bigger cargo space in the spark ev, but going from 3.3kw to 6.6kw for the same price with the added parking sensor, rearview dimming mirror and -believe it or not- padded door armrest, were ALL a huge plus! I had to jump on this before everyone and their mom start getting one and driving up the demand/price. Hopefully I'll get to do this all over again in 3yrs when ppl are tired of their Bolt!

If you're happy with 500e, that's what matters. But you have several FUD about SparkEV.

If you don't have DCFC, and must rely on L2, SparkEV takes bit over 6 hours to fully charge from 0% to 100% (18.4 kWh / 3.3 kW+some loss). 500e takes bit over 4 hours to do the same (24 kWh/6.6kW+some loss). If you're sleeping less than 6 hours a day but more than 4 hours, sure, 500e is "better". But if you must use L1 for whatever reason (friend's house?), 500e being less efficient car will need hours longer charging time to get the same distance.

But if you must charge from 0% to 100% on regular basis, 500e is awful. Far better is SparkEV with DCFC if you can't afford Bolt and Tesla.

Personally, I value being able to drive more than 50 miles away from home and being able to take my dogs over parking sensor and padded armrest. Unless 500e (or any EV) has the ability to use DCFC, I wouldn't be driving it. In case I need to go somewhere off-the-cuff, waiting hours to charge EV without DCFC doesn't work for me. Even if they're literally giving out 500e for free, there's the insurance and registration fees for something I'd be hesitant to use.

How could fear, uncertainty, or doubt come into the picture? According to his post, he has been evaluating and observing his new situation for 3 months. He needed either more range, faster daytime/waking hours charging ability, or an additional vehicle. Night charging was sufficient for the commute, but not for the errands. The extra 10-12 mph charging speed of the Fiat enabled him to do his necessary errands.

For me, looking in from the outside, FUD is a very real consideration. As much as I am interested in picking up on off-lease Spark EV, there are a lot of uncertainties as to whether it would be a good fit for my personal situation.

The only reason I went with an EV was for the financial aspect. I feel that DCFC is useless in my case since the amount of driving and charging, the price of shelling out for a DCFC, its limited infrastructure and its associated charging cost...I would be better off getting a prius (but that's beside the point).

I do have access to many free L2s nearby so that certainly play into the factor as well.

As has been mentioned FUD wasn't a big deal for the past year, but given that when you buy into the whole EV thing that you have to live within certain boundary...and when that boundary get skewed then you have to reassess the situation. EV is not for everyone and it's not a one size fits all solution, so the spark EV did work for me this past year but it no longer is a viable option given the added variables.

SparkSS said:

How could fear, uncertainty, or doubt come into the picture?

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FUD is his claim that it takes 8 hours to charge SparkEV. Simple math shows it'd take 6 hours to go from 0% to 100% with 3.3kW, which is only couple of hours more than 500e with 6.6kW charger. It doesn't matter the power of charging, what matters is how many miles you pile on, and more efficient SparkEV is not 50% the speed of 500e but more like 64%, especially in freeway speeds. And when it comes to L1 (ie, friend's house), SparkEV would do better.

But as I wrote, if 500e works better for him, good for him. Off-lease 500e is probably the cheapest car out there.

big mistake. Fiat makes the most unreliable cars in the world. They have horrible ratings.

Here's a lazy question here: Does the 500e have TMS for the pack?
I could look it up myself, but frankly my dear.....

evboy said:

big mistake. Fiat makes the most unreliable cars in the world. They have horrible ratings.

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That's the only thing I was worried about. I've got all 3 recalls taking care of before the trade in so hopefully it's smooth sailing here on out. I do have an ICE (an Audi RS5) if issue arises.

NORTON said:

Here's a lazy question here: Does the
500e have TMS for the pack?
I could look it up myself, but frankly my dear.....

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Yup, it has the same liquid TMS like the spark. Whereas the spark makes a more noticeable sound when you hear the liquid flowing underneath, the 500e is very quiet.

NORTON said:

Here's a lazy question here: Does the 500e have TMS for the pack?.

Click to expand...

AFAIK, there are only two EV without TMS, and they are Nissan Leaf and VW eGolf. If you have to choose among them and you don't care about DCFC and space, 500e is lot better. I read that 500e was engineered/made by Bosch, not sure how true that is. Certainly, Sergio (Fiat CEO) didn't want to make it.

Many people bad-mouth "compliance car" 500e (which it truly is), but when they are engineered better than dedicated platform Leaf, dedicated doesn't always mean better.

lude219 said:

Whereas the spark makes a more noticeable sound when you hear the liquid flowing underneath, the 500e is very quiet.

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You shouldn't be able to hear liquid flowing sound as there's no air pockets to make noise. More likely, what you heard is fake noise maker sound. Remember, SparkEV has very loud fake noise maker that is very noticeable which most other EV do not have. When I disconnect the fake noise maker, I hear nothing from SparkEV, just like other EV.

SparkevBlogspot said:

NORTON said:

Here's a lazy question here: Does the 500e have TMS for the pack?.

Click to expand...

lude219 said:

Whereas the spark makes a more noticeable sound when you hear the liquid flowing underneath, the 500e is very quiet.

Click to expand...

You shouldn't be able to hear liquid flowing sound as there's no air pockets to make noise. More likely, what you heard is fake noise maker sound. Remember, SparkEV has very loud fake noise maker that is very noticeable which most other EV do not have. When I disconnect the fake noise maker, I hear nothing from SparkEV, just like other EV.

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Interesting, I didn't know the sound of liquid flowing was piped in! I was only aware of the pedestrian alert noise maker, didn't know there's one for the liquid engaging as well. Thanks for that tidbit!

lude219 said:

I didn't know the sound of liquid flowing was piped in!

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No, I meant PFAF (aka, fake noise maker). There is no other flowing liquid sound generator. If you disabled PFAF and still heard things, something was probably wrong with your SparkEV. I measured using sound meter, and disabling PFAF resulted in sound level the same as with the car turned off.

SparkevBlogspot said:

lude219 said:

I didn't know the sound of liquid flowing was piped in!

Click to expand...

No, I meant PFAF (aka, fake noise maker). There is no other flowing liquid sound generator. If you disabled PFAF and still heard things, something was probably wrong with your SparkEV. I measured using sound meter, and disabling PFAF resulted in sound level the same as with the car turned off.

Click to expand...

The PFAF fuse was removed. The sound I was referring to is when car is plugged in and you start to hear the TMS working and the sound of liquid flowing. You don't hear that on the 500e.

For charging, I would expect to hear some noise, at least bit of fan noise. If 500e makes no noise, I have to wonder how effectively it's doing the job, especially since L2 power is 2X that of SparkEV. Even if it's only 15% loss (85% efficient) of 6.6 kW, that's 990W. As a comparison, that's about the power of a microwave oven to boil water in couple of minutes.

I do know SparkEV's L1 (25% of 1000W = 250W) is silent initially, but it makes some sound (gurgling as you say) after a while, sooner in hot weather and with fan noise. The noise cycles since SparkEV cooling is lot more powerful than charging loss, and only brief cooling is needed.

I have to wonder if same is true with 500e in that it takes some time before the noise starts, and then it cycles, and you just didn't catch it making noise. Having it make no noise while charging, especially in hot weather, doesn't seem right. In fact, I'd be worried if it made no noise while charging.