Easiest Least Painful Way To Do It

[nozferatu]

Hey Folks,

So I test drove the Spark EV today and would seriously consider leasing the car if I don't lose money on my current lease.

I'd like to know if someone can outline the steps and procedures of getting an EV and performing all the other steps such as how to shop for the right charger, getting it installed, dealing with the city, getting the rebates, etc etc etc.

I live in Burbank so I did look up Burbank's Electric Vehicle incentives page:

http://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/electric-vehicles
http://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/images/marketing_conservation/downloads/Electric_Vehicle_Letter_Introducing_TOU_rate_2013-07-11_CLEAN.pdf

I would really like a Fast DC charger as I feel I'd like to charge my car when I bring it home anytime of the day.

I drive about 20-30 miles a day on average. My current car is a Fiat 500 Sport and I'm half way into my lease.

The closest Chevy dealer is Community Chevy: http://www.yourchevy.com/

They have about 8-10 Ev's there.

Cheers

 

[cwerdna]

I would really like a Fast DC charger as I feel I'd like to charge my car when I bring it home anytime of the day.

Good luck with that. I responded to that at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3549.

You got at least $15.K to burn for that DC FC?

When I find my camera, I'll put up the pics I took of some ABB 20 kW (max output) J1772 CCS DC FCs I saw in Vegas, that BMW was using to charge their i3 test drive cars at CES. I don't recall their cost, but I think the BMW guy that was charging the cars said they were $20K or $30K a pop (don't quote me on this value).

edit: Ok, I put up my pics of the above units at https://picasaweb.google.com/105684180251177299188/CES2014?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXR0p_PwbjOUA. If you find out the cost of these units alone, please let us know. And, please let us know how much it'll cost to install one of these (or some other J1772 CCS DC FC) at home.

If you want to be able to replenish charge quickly at home, then you'd want a car w/a 6+ kW OBC (virtually all other currently sold EVs except for the '13+ Leaf S w/the "charge package") and a 30+ amp L2 EVSE. Better yet, get a car w/a 10 kW OBC (e.g. Tesla Model S or Toyota Rav4 EV) and a 40+ amp EVSE.

Fastest home charging solution would be the http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/high-power-wall-connector. You'd need a 2nd on-board charger on the Model S as well. And, if you had a 100 amp circuit, you could charge at 80 amps @ 240 volts (http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/highpowerwallconnector.pdf). Problem is, you'd need to order a $72K car + $2700 for the 2nd OBC and HPWC, in addition to any electrical work needed to install and accommodate that load.

 

[nozferatu]

Ok but let's stick to the Spark EV...what the Tesla has or hasn't is of no significance to us.

So in other words because the Spark EV is limited to the 3.3kw charging rate, there is really not much point purchasing a charger that can charger faster than that and there definitely is no point purchasing the Spark with the Fast DC plug correct?

 

[cwerdna]

Ok but let's stick to the Spark EV...what the Tesla has or hasn't is of no significance to us.

So in other words because the Spark EV is limited to the 3.3kw charging rate, there is really not much point purchasing a EVSE that can charge faster than that and there definitely is no point purchasing the Spark with the Fast DC plug correct?

Please get your terminology straight. I've fixed your post. For L1 and L2 AC charging, the charger is on-board the car.

The 120 volt trickle charge cord/cable that comes w/the car and any L1 and L2 charging stations/docks are EVSEs.

Yes, the Spark EV has only a 3.3 kW OBC. Buying a 240 volt 30 or 40 amp EVSE wouldn't help because the car could only pull ~16 amps (or less) at 240 volts. I've seen the Chevy Volts at my work (supposedly the same OBC as the Spark EV) only pull ~3.1 kW at 208 volts. In contrast, the '11 and '12 Leafs (w/3.3 kW OBC) seem to pull 3.7 or 3.8 KW on the same EVSEs. My '13 Leaf SV (with 6 kW OBC) pulls 5.8 to 6.0 kW on those same EVSEs.

For DC fast charging, the charger is actually external to the car, in very large cabinets.

As for the bolded part, it depends. See my post at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5376#p5376. If you feel it's required, then you'd better hope that NRG/eVgo makes good on the settlement referenced at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3555&hilit=evgo&start=110 and in the places you desire. And, you'll discover you'll want what I posted at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5329#p5329.

 

[nozferatu]

Dude...thanks for the detailed response but please...relax!! Sheesh...not everyone is familiar with this stuff you have to understand and accept that. I have no idea what L1, L2, EVSE, etc are...to me it's pig latin.

Most people don't want to hear about the terminology..they want to know what works best and just do it. That's how it should be anyway if EV's are to gain traction and acceptance.

So....ultimately...were I to get a Spark EV tomorrow, what would be your recommendation for my charging needs at home...and in plain English please! :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I don't like the terminology either, but we're stuck with it.

See diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630.

The point is, for Level 1 (typically 120 volts) and L2 (typically 208 or 240 volts) AC charging, charging rate is dictated and limited by several factors, such as line voltage, max amperage an EVSE can supply and the max draw (and output) of the car's on-board charger.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293 and look under "Nissan LEAF Miles Gained per Hour Charging" (yeah yeah, it's for a Leaf) might help. Using the 120 volt L1 cable/cord set that the car comes with should do either 8 or 12 amps @ 120 volts .

If you install a home 240 volt L2 EVSE, there's no point for you (with a Spark EV) in going w/one that handles more than 16 amps, due to the Spark EV's 3.3 kW OBC. 16 amps * 240 volts = 3.84 kW.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&p=290869 is example of the above.
The LCS-25 units at http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product-category/all-products/in-the-garage/page/2/ would be more than enough. They can output 20 amps at 208/240 volts, at max.

There are plenty of other examples.

It seems the '13+ Leaf equipped w/6 KW OBCs can draw ~27 to 29 amps @ 208/240 volts, at max. (I have one of these.)

http://www.plugincars.com/quick-guide-buying-your-first-home-ev-charger-126875.html may help... but I don't necessarily agree w/everything they say, esp. since getting a 30 amp EVSE (requiring a 40 amp circuit) does the good on the Spark EV.

From my saga at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8264&sid=a9b9b59583f7229b4e1bb42dcf8c1ce3#p8264, since it was affiliated w/Aerovironment, their only EVSEs they'd install for "free" would be a 30 amp one (requiring 40 amp circuit). And, well, I wasn't going to pay for $5K of work to accommodate that. For those w/insufficient electrical capacity at home for a 30 amp EVSE, a 16 amp (requiring 20 amp circuit) 240 volt EVSE would have a better chance of being within the limits.

 

[nozferatu]

If you install a home 240 volt L2 EVSE, there's no point for you (with a Spark EV) in going w/one that handles more than 16 amps, due to the Spark EV's 3.3 kW OBC. 16 amps * 240 volts = 3.84 kW.

Ok that's the important part...that's what I really wanted to know. My panel is upgraded to 20 AMP I believe so a 20 AMP, 240 unit would be sufficient it seems.

 

[nozferatu]

I also assume if you plug into a 240 charger, the system on the EV is smart enough to recognize that and not default to the 120V, 8 AMP rate?

 

[cwerdna]

Fixed your post

I also assume if you plug into a 240 volt EVSE, the system on the EV is smart enough to recognize that and not default to the 120V, 8 AMP rate?

Yes.

 

[nozferatu]

Fixed your post

I also assume if you plug into a 240 volt EVSE, the system on the EV is smart enough to recognize that and not default to the 120V, 8 AMP rate?

Yes.

Ok great!

 

[TonyWilliams]

So, the cord in your trunk will provide 120 volts @ 8 amps when plugged into any normal household socket.

When your car is plugged into ANY of the J1772 charge stations, it will provide 208 - 240 volts at 16 amps only.

Commercial power is only 208 volt, so virtually all public J1772 charge stations are limited to 208.

Your home should have 240 volts to run any charge station you care to buy, but will only supply 16 amps to your car.

 

[nozferatu]

ok gotcha!

 

[dcast1079]

Hello all. This seams like a rather small subset of EV users compared to the other EV forums that I have visited. I currently lease a Ford Focus Electric 2013, that I've had for a year now. I have 10K miles on it and absolutely love this vehicle. Today, I leased a 2014 Chevy Spark 2LT EV for my daughter who is in college. As you can see I am not new to this a believe I have made an informed decision for my needs and my daughter's needs.

Now for a quick observation.... some users on this (Chevy Spark) forum need to relax. We are all supporters of a new technology, a new way of driving and a very new way of thinking. Yes there will be changes to standards. We need to understand that the Chevy Level 3 charge ports or stations at not currently readily available and may never be. But we are leaders by buy and leasing these vehicles in there first or second years.

I hope that this vehicle works out as well as my Ford Focus EV has so far. Thanks to everyone for input and suggestions on all the EV forums.

 

[cwerdna]

This seams like a rather small subset of EV users compared to the other EV forums that I have visited. I currently lease a Ford Focus Electric 2013, that I've had for a year now.

It's not surprising given the tiny sales of the Spark EV compared to even the FFE. There's a sales chart before the comments at http://insideevs.com/december-2013-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/.

 

[Oberon]

Even though the Spark EV only has a 3.3 kw charger I got the 6 kw Bosch 30A EVSE because it was only about $150 more and if the next EV we get after the Spark's lease is up has a 6 kw charger after the Spark lease is up we will be ready. Also this model comes with an 18' cord instead of 12' which is handy in our location. Since the EVSE is more or less part of the house and should last many years it seems worth it to plan ahead a little.

 

[fengshui]

If you install a home 240 volt L2 EVSE, there's no point for you (with a Spark EV) in going w/one that handles more than 16 amps, due to the Spark EV's 3.3 kW OBC. 16 amps * 240 volts = 3.84 kW.

Ok that's the important part...that's what I really wanted to know. My panel is upgraded to 20 AMP I believe so a 20 AMP, 240 unit would be sufficient it seems.

This is correct. However, many owners (like Oberon and myself) choose to purchase a 30 or 40 AMP EVSE in the hopes that a future vehicle will be able to benefit from it. The 30AMP Bosch that Chevy subsidizes is probably the sweet spot in terms of price and future performance.

 

[fengshui]

So, the cord in your trunk will provide 120 volts @ 8 amps when plugged into any normal household socket.

Close. The cord in the trunk will actually provide 120volts @ 12 amps if selected on the infotainment system. The car defaults to 8 Amps to reduce the risk of tripping the breaker on a standard 15 amp circuit with other loads. If you know that the circuit you're charging from is otherwise unloaded, you can select 12 amps.

 

[nozferatu]

If you install a home 240 volt L2 EVSE, there's no point for you (with a Spark EV) in going w/one that handles more than 16 amps, due to the Spark EV's 3.3 kW OBC. 16 amps * 240 volts = 3.84 kW.

Ok that's the important part...that's what I really wanted to know. My panel is upgraded to 20 AMP I believe so a 20 AMP, 240 unit would be sufficient it seems.

This is correct. However, many owners (like Oberon and myself) choose to purchase a 30 or 40 AMP EVSE in the hopes that a future vehicle will be able to benefit from it. The 30AMP Bosch that Chevy subsidizes is probably the sweet spot in terms of price and future performance.

That's probably a good idea...I'd do the same as I'm sure technology will improve over time and quite quickly it seems.

 

[gra]

Ok that's the important part...that's what I really wanted to know. My panel is upgraded to 20 AMP I believe so a 20 AMP, 240 unit would be sufficient it seems.

This is correct. However, many owners (like Oberon and myself) choose to purchase a 30 or 40 AMP EVSE in the hopes that a future vehicle will be able to benefit from it. The 30AMP Bosch that Chevy subsidizes is probably the sweet spot in terms of price and future performance.

That's probably a good idea...I'd do the same as I'm sure technology will improve over time and quite quickly it seems.

Right. And for much the same reason, those who live in one of the four major California metro areas that will definitely get CCS chargers will probably want to get the CCS charging option, unless they are certain they will never use the car for anything other than commuting and local errands.

 

[nozferatu]

Right. And for much the same reason, those who live in one of the four major California metro areas that will definitely get CCS chargers will probably want to get the CCS charging option, unless they are certain they will never use the car for anything other than commuting and local errands.

I tend to agree...this whole doomsday scenario some people paint here about quick charging not being available for a long time doesn't make sense unless you consider that EV's are just novelties bound to never take off. That could be...but I would think most of us would like to think not.