Lease Spark EV in CA, then ship to CT: Q & A

[dsapp]

I live in Connecticut and am in California for the holidays. I visited a local Chevy dealership to drive the Spark EV and was surprised to learn that the dealer was willing to lease it to me and have it shipped to Connecticut (where I live about 1 mile from a Chevy dealership that sells Volts). Obviously, I don't qualify for the $2500 CA rebate and would need to pay for shipping ($1200 for enclosed, or $1000 for "open air" transport). That means I'm starting about $3700 in the hole compared to the typical Spark EV customer. However, I'm still considering it. Since the Spark EV is not a "test program" lease (like the Fit EV or ActiveE), I assume I'm "allowed" to take it out of the California/Oregon market. But my question is, "Should I?". Has anyone else done this?

Thanks for your feedback and advice!

 

[blownb310]

Subscribing to this thread.

I've always wanted to get a Spark EV out here to the east coast. I hope you can/will do so!

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Since the Spark EV is not a "test program" lease (like the Fit EV or ActiveE), I assume I'm "allowed" to take it out of the California/Oregon market. But my question is, "Should I?". Has anyone else done this?

Thanks for your feedback and advice!

I'm not sure what you mean by "test program". The Chevy Spark EV is built to comply with California Air Resources Board -Zero Emission Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) rules, which enables them to continue to sell high profit margin oil burning cars in California and other CARB-ZEV states.

If you buy one and ship it out-of-state to be registered first in a non CARB-ZEV state, GM won't get the 3 CARB-ZEV credits for that car. GM is currently grossly clueless in this regard, as they bought more CARB credits from their competition last year (ending September 30, 2013) than anybody else!

The dealer is a private entity, so the lack of CARB-ZEV credit doesn't affect them even slightly. They dealer would sell one to the devil at his out-state-state residence if they could make a buck. Toyota has started a campaign to slow down out-of-state sales of their compliance-only car, the Toyota Rav4 EV, by not allowing any of the special financing out-of-state, harrassing out-of-state dealers and owners for service and warranty repairs, etc. Expect the same game from GM in the future.

1) CARB-ZEV Compliance-only - cars like Toyota Rav4 EV, Honda Fit EV, GM Spark EV, Fiat/Chrysler 500e; built because the manufacturer is required to build EV's, and in pure compliance with the rules, the manufacturer makes just the minimum so that they can continue to sell high profit margin oil cars. Anything beyond that is generally in the form of press releases and not cars. These cars are typically sold at a significant loss to their respective manufacturer. Typically optimized for "100 miles", but practically have closer to 70-80 miles, and can be 40-50 miles with cold weather. Making the car go double the 100 mile range only produces 25% more credit hence no compliance-only cars are 200 mile range. They generally don't have ANY quick charge option, or offer a optional quick charge option that doesn't have charge stations.

2) CARB-ZEV Compliance - cars like Nissan LEAF, and we hope BMW. These are cars that must be built because CARB requires it, however they are typically sold anywhere buyers can be found, generally with a profit motive. They are generally built on a dedicated (and expensive) chassis. Because they really want to sell these, all offer some sort of quick charge.

3) CARB-ZEV Non-compliance - cars like Tesla Model S and Mitsubishi iMiev, neither company is required to comply, yet they both make 100% ZEV's. Definitely, profit motive cars. They are generally built on a dedicated (and expensive) chassis. Because they really want to sell these, all offer some sort of quick charge


Here's my ranking of which car manufacturers are most militant and hostile about California Air Resources Board - Zero Emissions Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) compliance, and which ones really want to sell battery electric cars:

.. Manufacturer .. Model(s) .... A ....... B ...... C ...... D ..... E ..... F
1. Honda - Fit EV / FCEV ..... YES ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
2. Toyota - Rav4 EV / FCEV... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ...YES ... YES
3. Chry/Fiat - Fiat 500e ....... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
4. GM - Spark EV ................. NO ..... YES ... YES .... NO ... NO ... YES
5. Ford - Focus EV ............... NO ..... YES ... NO ... YES ... NO ... YES
6. Daimler - Smart/B-Class . NO ..... YES .... NO .... NO ... NO ... YES
7. BMW - i3 ........................ NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO
8. Nissan - LEAF ................. NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO


Can't yet rank:


V.VW - eGolf ........................ ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? ... ???
X. Hyundai - FCEV ................ ??? ..... ??? .... ??? .... NO ... ??? .... NO
Y. Kia - Soul EV .................... ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? ... NO
Z. Mazda - Demio? EV ........... ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? .... NO


So, here is the criteria:

A. Lease Only to be crushed at lease return (no sales whatsoever)?
B. Converted car (not built on a purpose built EV chassis)?
C. Only sold in CARB states (not what the manufacturer says, but what they actually do). Only sold in minimal numbers to meet CARB requirements?
D. Loudly dismiss EV's and the CARB program, and generally announce how FEW they will produce?
E. Harass owners and dealers when the compliance car is out-of-state (California) with a warranty claim?
F. Without quick charge access on the compliance car?

************

First, let's be clear about the rules. NOT EVERY CAR MAKER MUST COMPLY WITH CARB-ZEV. Currently, there are six "Large Volume Manufacturers" (LVM) that must produce Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV) if they want to sell lots of oil burning cars in California, model years 2012-2014:

For the 2015 and later model years, all these vehicle manufacturers must comply:

BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new 2012 and later CARB-ZEV requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs (so they aren't included, since they won't make a true ZEV). Note that neither Mitsubishi, nor Tesla are on the list.

Motorists to foot bill for California

Many future ZEV cars will be built to use hydrogen, without exception, are designed to get high value 9 CARB-ZEV credits per vehicle instead of the 1/3 value of 3 credit per "100 mile" battery electric car:

Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, Nissan, Honda and Mercedes.

 

[Electricbowtie]

You should ask the guy who shipped his Spark EV to Michigan. He can be found and can send a message to him on http://www.voltstats.net/SparkEV

 

[Pegasus]

But my question is, "Should I?". Has anyone else done this?

That's up to your particular situation and taste. If you want to support EVs, show GM there's a market outside of CA and OR, be the only one in your town with a Spark EV, or other such intangibles, you should. Economically it only makes sense if you drive a ton, in which case leasing may not be the best option.
Personally, I would, but I've been an EV enthusiast since the EV1 (and was pissed that I couldn't get one in New York.)

 

[TonyWilliams]

But my question is, "Should I?". Has anyone else done this?

That's up to your particular situation and taste. If you want to support EVs, show GM there's a market outside of CA and OR...

GM knows that there is a market out-of-state. So does Toyota, Fiat/Chrysler, Honda, et al. Since the car costs more to build than they sell it for, it won't matter what "message" you think you're sending them...

DON'T SPEND YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO "SEND A MESSAGE" !!! Buy it because you want to.

Of course, Nissan has now sold 92,000 LEAF's all around the world, and you can buy one in just about every state. You can also quick charge one in just about every major urban area.

Heres a map of all the CHAdeMO and Tesla Supercharger stations in the USA as of Dec 2013. There are less than 10 total of the GM / German auto maker Frankenplug stations in the entire USA (and they are all in Arizona and California):

 

[cwerdna]

The dealer is a private entity, so the lack of CARB-ZEV credit doesn't affect them even slightly. They dealer would sell one to the devil at his out-state-state residence if they could make a buck. Toyota has started a campaign to slow down out-of-state sales of their compliance-only car, the Toyota Rav4 EV, by not allowing any of the special financing out-of-state, harrassing out-of-state dealers and owners for service and warranty repairs, etc. Expect the same game from GM in the future.

If one wants to get a flavor of Toyota's treatment of outside of CA buyers, poke around at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/index.php. Tony is obviously aware of this but the OP might be.

 

[dsapp]

I've checked with the Service Manager at my local Chevy dealership in Connecticut, and he wrote back: "Yes, we can absolutely provide you service for your new Spark EV. Good luck & hope you love it!" I was surprised at his answer as well as the enthusiasm.

I'm still haggling with the CA dealership. Since I'm not eligible for the $2500 CA rebate, the $7500 federal tax credit (since it's a lease), and will need to pay $1200 to have the Spark EV shipped to my state, I'm trying to negotiate as good a deal as I can.

My ActiveE lease is not over until March 1, so I may wait to see what happens in coming months in terms of incentives on the Spark EV. Bottom line: I'm still on the fence.

I appreciate all the feedback from you guys, though. Thanks so much for your responses so far. Anyone else?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I've checked with the Service Manager at my local Chevy dealership in Connecticut, and he wrote back: "Yes, we can absolutely provide you service for your new Spark EV. Good luck & hope you love it!" I was surprised at his answer as well as the enthusiasm.

I'm sure they are excited. There are instances of the same response from out-of-state dealers about the compliance-only Toyota Rav4 EV.

Then, after the dealer submitted their claim for payment for "Toyota Care" service, Toyota promptly informed them that they won't pay out-of-state... ship it back to California for service and warranty. Of course, the previously enthusiastic dealer won't service the car anymore.

Just know that what you want to happen, and what dealers tell you might not be the end result. Good luck.

 

[Nashco]

You're certainly allowed to transport and still covered by the same warranty within the US. Here's another far-out owner (in Alabama):

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3536

Of course you're not getting the California rebate, the same situation applies to buyers in other states (like me). The $1000 transport cost is obviously unavoidable given the sales locations and your location. However, the $7500 tax credit will DEFINITELY still apply...the dealership may not have explained it, but if you are leasing that $7500 credit will go to the company that buys it and carries the lease, which should reduce your dues. These $199/month (and similar) EV leases factor this tax credit in as getting passed on to you through the lease cost (rather than a direct tax credit to you).

That's the same reason why retirees or people otherwise unemployed are well advised to lease (even if they would prefer to buy) because they can still take advantage of the tax credit indirectly. Hopefully that makes sense and hasn't made this even more confusing to you!

Bryce

 

[TonyWilliams]

You're certainly allowed to transport and still covered by the same warranty within the US.

Please read about the Magnuson-Moss Act. Yes, the warranty applies, but GM can limit where you can actually receive those warranty services, as Toyota does.

Would it withstand a civil suit if you were denied an out of state claim as Toyota has done? Maybe. So you feel lucky?

 

[Nashco]

You're certainly allowed to transport and still covered by the same warranty within the US.

Please read about the Magnuson-Moss Act. Yes, the warranty applies, but GM can limit where you can actually receive those warranty services, as Toyota does.

Would it withstand a civil suit if you were denied an out of state claim as Toyota has done? Maybe. So you feel lucky?

I'm very familiar with the Magnuson Moss law, Tony. So are you, and so is GM.

You even said so yourself here (regarding RAV4 EV, which is sold in limited markets like the Spark EV):

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=197&start=90

The federal law, "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act", says Toyota MUST repair your car in the USA. It doesn't say that you must take it to a special dealer. Yes, they will SQUEAL at the top of their lungs otherwise, but they still must fix the car in the USA... not just California at special dealers.

The GM service literature covering the Spark EV is available for all dealerships. Any dealership that is certified to work on the Volt (and other GM high voltage hybrids) will have technicians with adequate safety and technical training to do high voltage relevant repairs. Of course, small items like trim pieces, suspension bushings, software updates, etc. that might also need warranty work can be easily done by any Chevy dealer. No need for a chicken little sky-is-falling approach....I would suggest it's extremely low risk to have a warranty failure that GM is completely unwilling to repair locally. Sure, it's good to go into the purchase informed, but I believe it's a pretty safe bet.

Bryce

 

[TonyWilliams]

... No need for a chicken little sky-is-falling approach....I would suggest it's extremely low risk to have a warranty failure that GM is completely unwilling to repair locally. Sure, it's good to go into the purchase informed, but I believe it's a pretty safe bet.

Bryce

So, we agree then. That's not "chicken little", that's assessing the risks and mitigating and/or accepting them.

Just because it's GM, or Toyota, doesn't mean that there is zero risk. An out-of-state EV buyer can get jerked around by either company.

 

[dsapp]

Thanks for your feedback, guys. Given what you've all said, I think I'm going to take a month as a "cool off" period and delay my decision. More details about the i3 will be out very soon. Then, I'll be able to make a more informed decision about all of my options. I appreciate all the opinions shared and expressed here.