Trying to decide between Spark (DC/3.3kw) and Focus (6.6kw)

[zeeboid]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

Does anyone have any input? I use it in the bay area, but if I move it back to Minnesota, there are Zero DC fast charge provisions there... and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal.

Thoughts from experience?

Thanks!

 

[gra]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

Does anyone have any input? I use it in the bay area, but if I move it back to Minnesota, there are Zero DC fast charge provisions there... and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal.

Thoughts from experience?

Thanks!

Sounds like you already understand the tradeoffs, so only you can decide which is more important. If you're considering a Focus because you're not into a LEAF, have you considered waiting for a Kia Soul EV? That will give you 6.6 + CHAdeMO, although you won't have the liquid-cooled TMS of the Spark and FFE.

 

[zeeboid]

If you're considering a Focus because you're not into a LEAF, have you considered waiting for a Kia Soul EV?

ehhhh.... A foreign nameplate is kind of out of the question.

 

[blownb310]

ehhhh.... A foreign nameplate is kind of out of the question.

Well at least the fuel that our EV's use is all domestically produced. We can't say that for the gas that was burned in your Volt.

 

[zeeboid]

Well at least the fuel that our EV's use is all domestically produced. We can't say that for the gas that was burned in your Volt.

No arguments there. I'm not renewing the lease in my Volt.

 

[supcrds]

If you're considering a Focus because you're not into a LEAF, have you considered waiting for a Kia Soul EV?

ehhhh.... A foreign nameplate is kind of out of the question.

Is the name plate that important? the spark is built in Korea. Btw what is the price difference focus vs spark? Pretty big gap to get the 6.6 charging. I guess the fiat is out of the question?

 

[sparkyps]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

You'll only be able to take advantage of that higher power charging at someone else's house if:

1) You purchase a high power EVSE power
2) Your friend has a compatible 240V power connector conveniently located for you to plug into.

Personally I think the price difference between the Focus EV and the Spark EV is a bridge too far.
You pay more for less IMO

 

[zeeboid]

Used sparks with DC fast are going for 20k. Used focus Electrics are going for 21k.

Or new... you can get a focus for 29k right now with 0% apr vs the spark at 28k with 2.8% apr...

So let's just say they are the same price.

Thoughts?

 

[cwerdna]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

You'll only be able to take advantage of that higher power charging at someone else's house if:

1) You purchase a high power EVSE power
2) Your friend has a compatible 240V power connector conveniently located for you to plug into.

As for "high power", prior to Bosch introducing 16 amp 208/240 volt EVSEs (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&p=290869), it seemed most well-known L2 EVSEs were "high power" (supports 30 amps @ 208/240 volts).

The http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/aerovironment-evse-rs, including the Nissan, Ford (http://insideevs.com/as-best-buy-exits-the-evse-game-ford-goes-with-aerovironment-to-provide-home-charging/) and BMW-branded (http://www.avinc.com/resources/press_release/bmw_group_selects_aerovironment_to_provide_electric_vehicle_charging_soluti) versions all are 30-amp. The Nissan one was the official Nissan L2 EVSE from day 1, even though the '11 and '12 Leafs only had a 3.3 kW OBC. Even the POS http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/ecotality-blink-evse that was part of the EV project that many '11 and '12 Leafers got "supported" 30 amps. Err... that's until you tried to draw 30 amps and found that many had faulty Rema handles and their connectors would melt (long story).

If I were the OP, I'd go w/the FFE because of its faster OBC and he'll have a better chance of it being serviced outside CA and OR then the Spark EV. Or, he should look into a new/used '13 Leaf. At least '13+Leafs are assembled in the US.

Most public L2 EVSEs support 30 amps at 208/240 volts, BTW.

 

[supcrds]

Used sparks with DC fast are going for 20k. Used focus Electrics are going for 21k.

Or new... you can get a focus for 29k right now with 0% apr vs the spark at 28k with 2.8% apr...

So let's just say they are the same price.

Thoughts?

I guess that is where I am confused. Why would someone pay 20k for a used spark when a new one is 18k after incentives (15k at my local dealer)? according to Edmunds the ffe is 36k so used at 21k seems plausible. The used spark price is the one that surprises me.

 

[sparkyps]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

You'll only be able to take advantage of that higher power charging at someone else's house if:

1) You purchase a high power EVSE power
2) Your friend has a compatible 240V power connector conveniently located for you to plug into.

As for "high power", prior to Bosch introducing 16 amp 208/240 volt EVSEs (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&p=290869), it seemed most well-known L2 EVSEs were "high power" (supports 30 amps @ 208/240 volts).

The http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/aerovironment-evse-rs, including the Nissan, Ford (http://insideevs.com/as-best-buy-exits-the-evse-game-ford-goes-with-aerovironment-to-provide-home-charging/) and BMW-branded (http://www.avinc.com/resources/press_release/bmw_group_selects_aerovironment_to_provide_electric_vehicle_charging_soluti) versions all are 30-amp. The Nissan one was the official Nissan L2 EVSE from day 1, even though the '11 and '12 Leafs only had a 3.3 kW OBC. Even the POS http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/ecotality-blink-evse that was part of the EV project that many '11 and '12 Leafers got "supported" 30 amps. Err... that's until you tried to draw 30 amps and found that many had faulty Rema handles and their connectors would melt (long story).

If I were the OP, I'd go w/the FFE because of its faster OBC and he'll have a better chance of it being serviced outside CA and OR then the Spark EV. Or, he should look into a new/used '13 Leaf. At least '13+Leafs are assembled in the US.

Most public L2 EVSEs support 30 amps at 208/240 volts, BTW.

Here is what the OP said:
"and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal."

If he wants to charge at a friend's house he will have to purchase a high power EVSE, the one that comes with the car isn't a high power EVSE.

And his friend will need a high voltage socket to plug it into.

I wouldn't buy any used EV when current give-away leases are available.

 

[zeeboid]

Yeah... the lease pricing is pretty good

 

[cwerdna]

Here is what the OP said:
"and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal."

If he wants to charge at a friend's house he will have to purchase a high power EVSE, the one that comes with the car isn't a high power EVSE.

And his friend will need a high voltage socket to plug it into.

Correct. All the EVs mentioned (and the OP's Volt) come only with 120 volt EVSEs that can do only 8 or 12 amps. 12 amps @ 120 volts is only 1.44 kW.

At 120 volts at 8 or 12 amps, a car w/higher powered on-board charger (e.g. 6+ kW) will NOT charge any faster than one w/only a 3.3 kW OBC, because the EVSE is the bottleneck here.

I don't know why the OP doesn't want a "foreign nameplate". My parents used to buy GM, we had 3 of them, we don't buy GM anymore as reliability was crap and all our cars have been "foreign" name plates for many years now... But, for example, I see this Leaf deal at the dealer I leased from: http://www.boardwalknissan.com/specials/new.htm. '13+ Leafs are assembled in Smyrna, TN whereas the Spark EV is assembled in Korea.

If one's OK w/a bare bones Leaf (S is lowest trim level) and wants to buy, for some reason, that $26K looks fairly attractive once you take off $7500 for Federal tax credit and $2500 CVRP. Problem is, I wouldn't get the S and take it to MN, esp. if driving range needs are on the long side. One would want the SV or SL which have the more efficient hybrid heater (w/heat pump portion). S has a lame power hungry resistive heater.

If the OP's confused by EVSE vs. OBC, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668 and the links there. I believe the Spark EV and Volt's OBCs can only pull at max 16 amps @ 240 volts, which would be 3.84 kW. I've seen Volts charging at work on our 208 volt EVSEs (max 30 amps) and they seem to only pull ~3.1 kW. My Leaf pulls ~5.7 to 6.0 kW on the same EVSEs.

 

[nmikmik]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

Does anyone have any input? I use it in the bay area, but if I move it back to Minnesota, there are Zero DC fast charge provisions there... and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal.

Thoughts from experience?

Thanks!

Since this all kind of hypothetical, i.e. if you move back to Minnesota, don't you have to be concerned with getting any warranty service for the Spark?
Yes, there is a whopping total of 10 DC charging stations (for the Spark) in CA, that's close to none in Minessota
Coming over to, no matter how nice, family member or friend to charge is a sure way to lose that person, no?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I personally would probably not take a compliance-only car out of California or other CARB-ZEV states. They will never be actively supported and even basic warranty claims could be a hassle in Minnesota.

1- Ford Focus EV
2- Honda Fit EV
3- Chrysler/Fiat 500e
4- Toyota Rav4 EV (particularly a pain in the *ss outside of California)
5- GM Chevrolet Spark EV

Also, if range is important, please understand that resistance heaters and non-thermal regulated batteries will KILL your range.

Naturally, the Tesla Model S has both thermal control on the battery and an efficient heat pump, plus a really long range. The Nissan LEAF is available with a heat pump and a 6.6kW (27.5 to 30 amps) charger that you can plug into an electric dryer outlet for 24 amp charging. You will have to pay about $300 to have the charge cable that comes with the LEAF to be modified for 240 volt service and programmable to 20 or 25 amps.

I recommend some type of add-on silicone pad type heater for the LEAF battery.

It's just too irrational for me to follow the thought of "foreign cars bad" while contemplating a Korean built and designed converted car Spark EV while overlooking a US built LEAF that is the largest selling EV in history by a HUGE margin (115,000 sold).

 

[zeeboid]

The focus electric battery is heated and cooled too. The spark's is cooled.

 

[nozferatu]

Hey all.

My volt is coming due and I want to jump into electric... my big decision is between the 6.6kw charger in the Focus and the 3.3kw/DC in the Spark.

Does anyone have any input? I use it in the bay area, but if I move it back to Minnesota, there are Zero DC fast charge provisions there... and at that point plugging in for an hour at a family member's house for 2x the range on the Spark is a big deal.

Thoughts from experience?

Thanks!

As a "vehicle" I would say the Focus probably will drive better and handle better than the Spark EV. The Focus has excellent dynamics of course in ICE guise but I it's safe to say that translates over well to the EV.

The 6.6 kW is definitely a nice thing to have.

But if you want really great acceleration and small spunky car, the Spark EV is a nice ride. Definitely won't feel as upper class as the Focus though.

 

[seanrarey]

The BMW i3 is pretty close to the Ford on price range... & has both the CCS QC & the 6.6 charger.

There, now you can have both.

 

[zeeboid]

You can get a focus electric right now for 27k

 

[TonyWilliams]

I just had the pleasure of riding in the Kia Soul EV.

http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2015/experience?story=hello

It should be available this fall, but likely only in CARB-ZEV compliant states. Which states, nobody yet knows for sure. California, for sure. Maybe even Colorado (there's already a Kia dealer with a charger for this car there), even though Colorado is not a CARB-ZEV state.

It's very doubtful if it would be sold in the OP's state of Minnesota.

The range appears very good compared to the multitude of 80-ish mile range EV's out there. Plus, I found it quite peppy with tons of neat features:

1) Heated AND cooled front seats. Heated rear seats.

2) Predictive lines in the backup camera

3) 27kWh battery with likely 100+ mile real range (perhaps even better than this first generation Spark EV)

4) DC quick charging with CHAdeMO and very likely 6.6kW / 7.2kW onboard charger.