Anyone interested in custom made lowering springs?

Casualsurfer · Nov 25, 2015

No company makes lowering springs for the Spark EV, and the ICE Spark springs may not hold the additional weight. A cursory look on Google shows a few custom coil spring makers, I'm wondering if anyone else would be interested in a group buy?

Nashco · Nov 25, 2015

I'd be in for at least one set. I have a set of stock Spark EV springs dismounted that I can lend for measurements if necessary.

Bryce

Casualsurfer · Nov 26, 2015

Nashco said:
I'd be in for at least one set. I have a set of stock Spark EV springs dismounted that I can lend for measurements if necessary.

Bryce

Bryce, totally would take up your offer. Let's see how many more are interested and we'll go from there.

What would be your ideal lowering height? By an inch? Two inches?

NORTON · Nov 26, 2015

I'm definitely interested!

But put me on the wait and see:
How does this work with 195-205 and wider tire/wheel combos?
Is there a bolt on rear and/or front sway bar kit for this car, and is it needed?
Any estimates on price for a small production run?

Thanks guys for pursuing this mod !!

nozferatu · Nov 26, 2015

If there is anything this car needs DESPERATELY it's good shocks and springs.

nikwax · Nov 26, 2015

nozferatu said:
If there is anything this car needs DESPERATELY it's good shocks and springs.

Why?

nozferatu · Nov 26, 2015

nikwax said:
nozferatu said:

If there is anything this car needs DESPERATELY it's good shocks and springs.

Click to expand...

Why?

Why? Because the car's suspension and shocks are awful. The car floats dangerously at higher speeds, it bounces around like a Cadillac. And a decent suspension system is critical not only to handling but also traction and laying down power.

If you want to cruise around in the Spark casually, it's fine. It's oriented towards comfort. But anything beyond that it's darn right dangerous. This is coming from a Fiat 500 Sport and GTI owner.

Casualsurfer · Nov 26, 2015

nikwax said:
nozferatu said:

If there is anything this car needs DESPERATELY it's good shocks and springs.

Click to expand...

Why?

Because this car dives and squats horribly. It's not my Volt horrible but it's close. The chassis is stiff enough but the suspension can't keep up. Good tires help quite a bit, but I would be more than happy to spend some money on good set of matched springs & shocks while lowering the car a bit.

I see 3-4 people interested so far, that's a good start. I'll be looking for custom-made shock supplier too. LMK if you like to be involved in the process - I would love to have your help.

NORTON · Nov 27, 2015

"LMK" ???

I haven't been following what Bryce has done to his car lately but he races autocross and hill climbs in this little EV hot rod.

He should be the leader of this pack !!
What other mods should go with the lowering springs? (I added a bolt-on rear anti-sway bar to my '10 Prius. That and wider wheels and stickier tires totally transformed it !!!)

I'm for turning mine into a stiffly sprung autocrosser. Comfort it nice. But I'd rather have fun.
I do know lowering it too much without changing the bump stops / up limits will make you have to tip-toe around normal bumps, dips and ramps. You have 1-2" less suspension up travel.

nikwax · Nov 27, 2015

nozferatu said:
nikwax said:

nozferatu said:

If there is anything this car needs DESPERATELY it's good shocks and springs.

Click to expand...

Why?

Click to expand...

Why? Because the car's suspension and shocks are awful. The car floats dangerously at higher speeds, it bounces around like a Cadillac. And a decent suspension system is critical not only to handling but also traction and laying down power.

If you want to cruise around in the Spark casually, it's fine. It's oriented towards comfort. But anything beyond that it's darn right dangerous. This is coming from a Fiat 500 Sport and GTI owner.

The Internet: hyperbole free since 1981

Nashco · Nov 27, 2015

Casualsurfer said:
Nashco said:

I'd be in for at least one set. I have a set of stock Spark EV springs dismounted that I can lend for measurements if necessary.

Bryce

Click to expand...

Bryce, totally would take up your offer. Let's see how many more are interested and we'll go from there.

What would be your ideal lowering height? By an inch? Two inches?

I'd say 30mm would be a good target. Less will hardly be worth the trouble, and 50mm becomes more hassle than it's worth due to tire clearance.

Bryce

Casualsurfer · Nov 27, 2015

NORTON said:
"LMK" ???

I haven't been following what Bryce has done to his car lately but he races autocross and hill climbs in this little EV hot rod.

He should be the leader of this pack !!
What other mods should go with the lowering springs? (I added a bolt-on rear anti-sway bar to my '10 Prius. That and wider wheels and stickier tires totally transformed it !!!)

I'm for turning mine into a stiffly sprung autocrosser. Comfort it nice. But I'd rather have fun.
I do know lowering it too much without changing the bump stops / up limits will make you have to tip-toe around normal bumps, dips and ramps. You have 1-2" less suspension up travel.

LMK = Let Me Know

30mm is a good length, as Bryce suggested.

I'm looking at better struts as well.

sTeeve · Nov 28, 2015

I am interested in a set.

-Bob K.

nozferatu · Nov 28, 2015

nikwax said:
The Internet: hyperbole free since 1981

Exaggerated claim? Um...no sorry. Clearly your idea of a good suspension system isn't the same as mine...or others lol

Zoomit · Nov 28, 2015

nozferatu said:
nikwax said:

The Internet: hyperbole free since 1981

Click to expand...

Exaggerated claim? Um...no sorry. Clearly your idea of a good suspension system isn't the same as mine...or others lol

Come on now, he wasn't implying that it has "good suspension", just that it wasn't as bad as you inferred. Now, let's play nice and get back to this 'lipstick on a pig' discussion!

Casualsurfer · Nov 28, 2015

I have done some preliminary research and came up with a summary below for this project. This is based on select reading of various forums, company sites, and videos. These are my opinions and I look forward to a lively discussion ON TOPIC about this.

- The springs will be cold wound, major aftermarket makers like Eibach use cold wound process. It allows for better control of spring rates and lighter weight.

- Springs will be linear in design.

- Spring rates: this will be of some discussion I think. I've owned various cars FWD and RWD and usually FWD has a higher rate front and RWD has higher rate rear. My stock Cayman S (similar weight, 50/50 F/R balance) had 188F/263R stock. As reference an aftermarket Civic street/autoX setup would use 340F/250R which I think would be too stiff for me. If you're the math type try this site for reference: http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsport/products/suspension-worksheet

I would think 280F/260R could work for my DD/spirited driving needs and kill off the squat and dive.

Eibach offers custom made springs, but I want to work with a domestic supplier. Currently my top choice is http://www.bettsspring.com/coil-springs and I'll be reaching out to them on Monday to see what kind of pricing we are talking about for 5 sets.

Bryce, your stock set of springs may come in really handy if they need dimensions.

NORTON · Nov 29, 2015

ON TOPIC:

Thanks casual, for the work you do!

Casualsurfer · Nov 30, 2015

Quick update: I got a response from Bettes, and ballpark estimate is $300-$400 for a set of springs which I think is more than reasonable for a made in the USA small batch run. They will need Bryce's set of springs to measure, and will need to provide installed heights measurements. I don't have the tools to do so and was wondering if anyone can help with the measurements F/R?

Nashco · Dec 1, 2015

Casualsurfer said:
I would think 280F/260R could work for my DD/spirited driving needs and kill off the squat and dive.

Sounds like you're making some pretty big assumptions based on other cars. To be clear, the front and rear suspension are very different styles. The front is a typical strut. The rear is a beam axle. Our car also has way more weight bias to the rear than a typical FWD car because of the battery weight. From the factory, the rear spring rate is significantly higher than the front spring rate (something like 50% higher). My modified suspension is running approximately 280 lb/in front springs (what comes with the Megan Racing kit, 5 kg/mm) and 325 lb/in (Eibach) rear springs.

To be clear, the $300-400 estimate is for a set of 4 springs? And there's no additional setup or tooling fees? Can you clarify what you mean by "installed height" measurement? Sounds like you're wanting to know the spring length when the suspension is at rest, presumably with the car at curb weight. I can't help with this one, since my suspension is already modified.

Bryce

NORTON · Dec 1, 2015

Nashco said:
... Can you clarify what you mean by "installed height" measurement? Sounds like you're wanting to know the spring length when the suspension is at rest, presumably with the car at curb weight. ...

Isn't this a matter of turning the front wheels full lock and reach in there with a tape measure and measure spring lands top to bottom?

In the rear you might have to lay on your back and reach farther in there to get this measurement.

Or get the car on a 'drive-on' type of car lift to make this really easy.

Anyone interested in custom made lowering springs?

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