Anyone interested in custom made lowering springs?

[Casualsurfer]

Sorry about the lack of updates, with the holidays and travel it's been rough.

Apparently our front springs use "banana" type design that exerts lateral forces on the travel to reduce wear on the struts, so Betts is looking at how to make that. You can google the term and read about it, but from what I understand, making this type isn't as easy and there are some additional considerations and complexities so I'm awaiting their response.

Happy new year!

 

[mitechman47]

If you are having problems with spring development, I will go with Eaton Detroit Spring, they can make anything for anything and they are local to me. Ill check with them and update.

 

[user 527]

I'd actually be more interested in raising the clearance/suspension, since I'd like to have a bit more off-road ability.

Possible? (asked by an auto neophyte)

 

[Nashco]

If you want to go off-road, you have the wrong car. The entire underbody has pretty fragile plastic panels which are used to optimize aerodynamics. There's also almost no room for bigger tires.

With that said, you could raise the car with the Megan Racing coilovers that I've documented in another thread.

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3656

Bryce

 

[user 527]

Well, not as in OHV, but I work at a nature preserve and some of the roads are dirt (with the usual pitfalls). Not that I have to drive it out there, but just an inch or two more clearance would help navigate them when I do. Looking forward to a cheaper version of the Rav4EV, or others similar.

 

[Casualsurfer]

Update: Bad news guys, after some considerations and internal discussions, Betts said they don't have the R&D resources to do this, so they're backing away from the project.

mitechman47 mentioned Eaton Detroit Springs, and if you could reach out please let us know.

I'm still holding out hopes for this, because after looking at Nashco's instructions I think that's a lot of custom work that may or may not pan out for me. I'm also interested to find out if anyone has tried other strut inserts?

 

[Nashco]

As I sent via email, just because the springs on our car aren't typical coil springs doesn't mean that the replacement springs need to be that way. Here's another plan of attack to consider:

1. Buy this H&R kit (28937-1) for $200 to get the front springs (rears won't work on the Spark EV):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381355770408

2. Buy this Ground Control kit (8030) for $240 to use for rear springs with 325 lb/in spring rate:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=96/CA=18

3. I can make a small shopping list of hardware needed to bolt the rear springs in, the fronts should be a drop in.

This will utilize the stock dampers. I have no idea how much the fronts would lower the car compared to stock, but from what I know about the EV versus gas Spark front springs, I would expect it to lower the Spark EV front 20-30mm (depends on the rate vs. free length of the H&R springs, which I don't know). The rear springs could be adjusted as you see fit, ideally matching the rear height to whatever the front ends up at.

If somebody wants to try this, order the above and contact me when you get the parts. I'll clarify exactly what parts you'll need to bolt the rear springs in at that point (need to confirm measurements on the latest Ground Control parts, since the ones I used were made long ago).

I'm also interested to find out if anyone has tried other strut inserts?

I don't see much benefit to other strut inserts unless you can find some that are much better quality than factory parts. I haven't seen any quality dampers that bolt onto our car. Once upon a time there were some gas Sparks racing in Mexico in a series called Sol VD (?) that claimed they were running Bilstein dampers, but I couldn't ever find part numbers or track down other details.

Bryce

 

[mitechman47]

Ok, I will contact my local vendor- I also plan on dropping off the springs so they can get a good look at them.
I would say about 1" lower all around and a higher spring rate for the rear to reduce the squat.
Ill update later this week.

 

[mitechman47]

Ok, I dropped off the springs today- the front spring has an open end so the easiest option is to cut it (this will also increase the spring rate 10-15%). At stated in this thread, the rear springs may present a challenge but they will let me know by the end of the week. I asked for 1+ inch drop and increased spring rate for the rears... Ill keep you posted.

 

[mitechman47]

BTW, the shocks are so soft and they barely push back out after pushing them in. Im talking push in and out with my fingers. I have measured them and they are close to the Chevy cruze rear shocks (it has the same rear suspension setup with the cast arms welded to the steel tube). Ill work on an easy shock upgrade while Im working on the springs.

 

[mitechman47]

Well, again, no go on the springs- they are too busy to want to work on them, let alone they have no solution- Im waiting for them to get the spring rates- Too bad as their website is extremely informative and they claim to be able to make anything but that's not the case....looks like Ill try Nashcos' idea above.
Also, the front strut shocks are not nearly as soft as the rears, as simple cutting of the front spring will handle the lowering, only the rear is in need of an upgrade.

I think I found a good rear shock upgrade, will receive next week for testing.

 

[NORTON]

>BTW, the shocks are so soft and they barely push back out after pushing them in.....
>>....the front spring has an open end so the easiest option is to cut it (this will also increase the spring rate 10-15%). ....

mite,
You should do some research, or ask Bryce about your ideas.

> shocks just sit there and resist compression and rebound at different rates. The only reason SOME shocks push themselves back out is IF they are gas charged. This does not effect their 'shock absorption' properties.

>> Buddy, put down the hack saw and do some research. This will definitely not 'increase spring rate'.

 

[mitechman47]

so to answer this:

mite,
You should do some research, or ask Bryce about your ideas.

> shocks just sit there and resist compression and rebound at different rates. The only reason SOME shocks push themselves back out is IF they are gas charged. This does not effect their 'shock absorption' properties.

>> Buddy, put down the hack saw and do some research. This will definitely not 'increase spring rate'.

I have spent hours and hours of research, let alone taking the springs and shocks out of my sparkEV- meaning its sitting there un-driveable on stands. I have measured the springs and shocks and suspension setup, comparing to similar cars, including buying parts to further compare.
The rear shocks are extremely soft, being able to move the rod in and out easily by hand is WEAK, I have installed performance shocks in every car I have owned and seen the weak ones replaced with ones that are a complete pain to install as they are so stiff and are almost impossible to compress by hand to install them.
Go online, check out for yourself, cutting coils will increase spring rate although not as much as increasing the spring material diameter, and a cutoff wheel is the way to go, why would I use a hacksaw?

My previous HHR SS had the exact same issues with weak shocks and the rear squatting, just upgrading the shocks helped so much.

Yea we all can talk about this stuff but how many of us actually take this stuff apart?
I also spent time to post on here to let others know how is going and trying to find solutions. It may not all be the best way but all I can say is im trying and don't need others not supporting or criticizing.

If anyone is interested as I complete the suspension upgrades, pm me and Ill let you know.
done

 

[nikwax]

BTW, the shocks are so soft and they barely push back out after pushing them in. Im talking push in and out with my fingers. I have measured them and they are close to the Chevy cruze rear shocks (it has the same rear suspension setup with the cast arms welded to the steel tube). Ill work on an easy shock upgrade while Im working on the springs.

I'd be very interested in a shock (damper) upgrade. And anti-sway bars.

While I'm not interested in lowering the car, I'd certainly like better dampers and more roll resistance.

 

[NORTON]

...Yea we all can talk about this stuff but how many of us actually take this stuff apart?
I also spent time to post on here to let others know how is going and trying to find solutions. It may not all be the best way but all I can say is im trying and don't need others not supporting or criticizing.

If anyone is interested as I complete the suspension upgrades, pm me and Ill let you know.
done

mite,
I'm sorry. I was wrong. It is counter-intuitive, but you are correct, cutting a spring shorter does increase the spring rate.

I did my research....
http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/cutting-springs , I still have questions about the images.
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/ , This site does talk about this aspect of homegrown cutting:
While the rate is increased the load is unchanged. Rate is the amount of weight required to deflect the spring one Inch while load is the amount of weight the spring will support at a given height.
Cutting coils is limited to those types which have tangential ends. Tangential ends are those which spiral off into space. If you tried to stand the spring on end it would fall over.
Square ends and pigtail ends, both will stand up, and can not be cut because the finished product will not mount correctly in the suspension.

So please continue to post your modifications to your Spark EV.
You and Bryce are Da'Man !
And I will, with all due respect, STFU and watch and learn from this thread!!

I plan on upgrading mine at some point.
This car is so funny, especially on the very cold asphalt right now. It still is a fun car but it is SO limited on 185's putting the power down and hustling around corners.
It's like an old fashion Muscle Car, only with modern traction and stability controls. I feel those controls working at the slightest request for Power, even at 30-40 mph !!
My first major upgrade will be 16" wheels and 'Summer Tires',, someday. I need to research that topic.

 

[nikwax]

you still running the factory tires? If so, just swapping the tires out will help enormously in the traction department. There are a lot of tires out there in 195 that could give you happiness.

 

[NORTON]

nik,
I'm running Kumho Ecsta 4X II , stock sizes. Less than $400 delivered. It was definitely an upgrade, at the time.
I saved the original tires for later. They have about 4k miles on them.
I will drop the pressure from 40 to 35 psi, but I doubt that will help much. (They dropped to 40 in this dammcold..)

The thing is, You people don't know what it's like to drive in 5° weather. :lol:
Almost everything is stiff and hard. I'm hearing slight rattles and creaks. I hear these from the car too !! :|
This poor car now sounds like the suspension is getting loose. I'm pretty sure it's just stiff, shrunken rubber bushings and such. Everything will be better come Spring !

 

[nikwax]

you're right, we never see 5 degrees here. Rare enough that it is below freezing.


Yeah, I wonder what lower tire pressure would give you in the traction department. We found 45 to be way too hard for our liking, lower pressures seem to be happier at least for the tires I have. We're running at 40 now which works pretty well in the rain (we're seeing about 1/2 inch of rain per day).

 

[mitechman47]

Lowering update-
1" front and 1.5" rear, it finally sits flat and level. I did the following;
After many attempts of cutting small amounts off the bottom of the front springs- 1" was one complete coil. Trimmed 1" off the bump stops also.
For the rear I tried two springs from summit racing $40 each. They are 2.5 diameter. Here are the two I tried.
SUM-72-10-300. This is a 10" 300lb rate spring- this will drop it 3/4" and you can use the stock shock. They ride slightly stiffer and reduce the rear squat on takeoff. Fits right in-place of the stock one.

SUM-72-09-350 (still testing so not yet recommended). This is a 9" 350lb rate- 1 1/2" drop. You can not use the stock shock as the spring is shorter than the shock travel, meaning it would likely fall out if you unload the rear suspension to the limit (huge bump/railroad track at high speed). I installed/modified a Bilstein sport shock from the late model Chevy Cruise- this shock is shorter than the stock SparkEV but Its still too soft and not worth the money. I have been driving this setup for a few weeks now- better than the stock setup- just about no rear squat at all now over large bumps where the stock ones just float over and its now a more connected to the road feeling.
I am currently working on some Rancho adjustable shocks, they are cheaper and can be dialed from soft to hard.
Ill keep you posted on the shocks, however, the top mounting points on the shocks have to be modified, so this will most likely keep most people from using them.

 

[sTeeve]

mitech,
If I read you (and Bryce) correctly, your rear spring recommendation and Bryce's front suspension setup might work together...?

-Bob K.