LRR Tire Availability (besides OE Ecopia EP150)

Zoomit · Jun 21, 2015

The TireRack website, which seems like a reasonable reference, only lists the following as fitting the Spark:

Ultra High Performance Summer
Yokohama S.Drive

Ultra High Performance All-Season
Kumho Ecsta 4X
Kumho Ecsta 4X II

High Performance All-Season
Kumho Ecsta PA31

Passenger All-Season
Bridgestone Ecopia EP150

Studless Ice & Snow
Dunlop Winter Maxx
Michelin X-Ice X13

This is a remarkably small selection and the EP150's are the only option that uses a LRR compound. Does anyone know of any other Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tires that are available in the staggered sizes for the Spark EV?

Zoomit · Jun 21, 2015

One correction/update, the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires are also LRR but obviously not suitable for use all the time.

nikwax · Jun 21, 2015

If you want to go with 185's all around, there is the Pirelli P7 and the Continenal ProContact. I'm intending to install the Contis.

NORTON · Jun 22, 2015

I recently purchased the Kumoh's from tirerack while they were on sale, $100 off rebate on a purchase of 4.

I think they are great !!
I never get close to my range limit so I don't care about pinching the expensive electrons to get every last mile out of them.
I put some value on enjoying this fast, fun little car. The Spark EV should be faster with better traction.
I really wanted to go with the Yokohama S.Drive tires but they say 'Summer tire' and 'avoid freezing temps'. So they were out, plus $100 more due to the Kumho rebate.

I saved the OE LRR tires for later. They had 3100 miles on them. It was less than $70 to do the swap.

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

nikwax said:
If you want to go with 185's all around, there is the Pirelli P7 and the Continenal ProContact. I'm intending to install the Contis.

I hadn't considered reducing the rear width to 185's. I'm not inclined to go that direction because it might make it a little tail happy, especially under hard braking. I'd do that if I was the only driver, but my wife and inexperienced son will also be driving it.

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

NORTON said:
I recently purchased the Kumoh's from tirerack while they were on sale, $100 off rebate on a purchase of 4.

I think they are great !!
I never get close to my range limit so I don't care about pinching the expensive electrons to get every last mile out of them.
I put some value on enjoying this fast, fun little car. The Spark EV should be faster with better traction.
I really wanted to go with the Yokohama S.Drive tires but they say 'Summer tire' and 'avoid freezing temps'. So they were out, plus $100 more due to the Kumho rebate.

I saved the OE LRR tires for later. They had 3100 miles on them. It was less than $70 to do the swap.

Well I asked about LRR tires, but I do appreciate your enthusiasm! I am planning to buy a set of the Ecsta 4X II while the rebate lasts. I took the Spark up and down a nearby canyon this weekend and was able to successfully make the front EP150's squeal from apex to apex. I am grateful that Kumho offers a few options (Ecsta 4X, 4X II, and PA31) on the performance end of the spectrum for this car.

It's just unfortunate that there's no middle ground compromise between the efficient and hard to get EP150s and the more performance oriented but less efficient Kumho Ecsta offerings. The challenge is that the Spark EV is low volume and the EP150's appear to be the only current LRR tire available that overlaps both tire sizes.

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

Zoomit said:
nikwax said:

If you want to go with 185's all around, there is the Pirelli P7 and the Continenal ProContact. I'm intending to install the Contis.

Click to expand...

I hadn't considered reducing the rear width to 185's. I'm not inclined to go that direction because it might make it a little tail happy, especially under hard braking. I'd do that if I was the only driver, but my wife and inexperienced son will also be driving it.

It might induce oversteer, but I would think between the traction control and tire pressures that would be a non issue .

You could also look at 60 series tires for more options.

I agree, I wish there were more conventional options.

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

I'd also like to know what the range penalty is with the Kumhos

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

So would I. I speculate it's between 4-6%, maybe as high as 7% loss. That's equal to a reduction of the advertised 82 mile range down to 77-79 miles and as low as 76 miles.

NORTON · Jun 22, 2015

So there you go. 3 - 4 miles difference in range. If that doesn't sound right pick another number.
Either way, if you are down to the last 3-4 miles of charge,,, you're doing it wrong.

Will a 3-4 mile difference add up to a lot of $$ vs the fun factor?
Mostly that kind of difference is how you use your right foot, no matter what rubber you are running on.

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

Agreed. 3-4 miles is also within the variability due to HVAC usage and season.

In addition to the fun factor, I'm a firm believer in "dynamic safety" or the ability to avoid an accident. Better rubber provides shorter stopping distances and better cornering grip.

Consider this, the ICE Spark uses 185/55-15 tires all around and weights 2300 lbs. The Spark EV has essentially the same tire size, but weights 3000 lbs or 30% more.

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

NORTON said:
So there you go. 3 - 4 miles difference in range. If that doesn't sound right pick another number.
Either way, if you are down to the last 3-4 miles of charge,,, you're doing it wrong.

Will a 3-4 mile difference add up to a lot of $$ vs the fun factor?
Mostly that kind of difference is how you use your right foot, no matter what rubber you are running on.

If we're buzzing around town and recharging fully every day, I agree, range isn't an issue. But I can think of uses where it might be, and that wouldn't be doing it wrong, it would be a different use case.

I'd like to see how far I can get with this thing and do some regional touring. I'm pretty sure I can reach the coast from here, and get up the Columbia Gorge. And 5-10% of my range might make a big difference. I can buy tires that have the LRR properties of the stock tires and have the extra grip that I seek.

In other words: I want it all

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

I thought about the load index difference in the 185 vs the 195, and that may be why the larger tires are in the rear.

185 has a load index of 82 which is 1047 lbs.

195 has a load index of 85 which is 1135 lbs.

I believe the static weight distribution is 50/50, so statically there is 750 lbs on each tire. That's without passengers. Add maybe 300 lbs in passengers, front biased, but say centered to keep the math easy, and that's 825 lbs per tire. Throw a 100 lb sack of concrete in the back and you're maybe up to 850 lbs per tire. Hmmm. Maybe they were thinking we have some very large friends in the back seats.

I dunno. I still want high performance LRR tires. Still thinking about it.

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

Going back over older posts, Bryce says that 195's will fit all around. So that's another set of options, as there are quite a few tires in that size. The Michelin Premier A/S is LRR and a good performer.

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

I noticed that as well. Going to 195/55-15's all around will give the fronts a better chance at life. However, the non-staggered tires would slightly increase the car's tendency to oversteer, especially late-braking into a turn. As you mentioned previously, that might be correctable by giving the rears a couple extra PSI or deflating the fronts by a couple PSI (or both).

The Michelin Premier's do have a very good wear rating, again giving the fronts a fighting chance to last more than 20kmi, but they're also more expensive. Hmm, something to think about...

Zoomit · Jun 22, 2015

So to summarize my findings, here's a summary of the three options I'm considering when my fronts go bald. (Prices are from TireRack.com and don't include tax/shipping.)

Highest efficiency, low performance, moderate cost
- Replace just the fronts with OE Bridgestone Ecopia EP150, 2x 185/55R15, $97.88 per tire

High efficiency, moderate performance, high cost
- Replace all four with matching Michelin Premier A/S, 4x 195/55R15, $119.13 per tire

Moderate efficiency, high all season performance, moderate cost
- Replace all four with matching Goodyear Eagle Sport All-Season, 4x 195/55R15, $90.42 per tire

For the non-staggered configurations, I'd probably bias the pressure at +3 PSI on the rears to counter the larger front tire width over OEM and call it good.

Right now, I'm using over 75% of my battery everyday so I don't want to compromise the efficiency too much. Hence I'm reticent to jump on the current $100 rebate for the Kumho Ecsta 4X II tires; but if efficiency is a lower priority and you're in the market now, it does seems like a good deal.

YMMV

nikwax · Jun 22, 2015

Nice summary, Zoom

Oh, the Michelins are $100 each after rebate

gomersrocket · Jun 25, 2015

I posted this in an older thread regarding tires... Please forgive me if you find this post redundant.

I have 205/50-15 KUMHO ECSTA ASTs on all 4 stock wheels. There is no rub in the front, I am happy with this size.
I am glad I pushed it and didn't settle for 195 all the way around. Range has slightly decreased, but worth it to be rid of the OEM tires.

With the stock tires and my aggressive driving, I never got more than 5 kWh/mile. The highway driving at 80mph to/from work is what really kills my range.

Right now, when my car is fully charged, I have an average range of 68 miles (3.4 kWh/mile). When I first received the car, a full charge would give me 73 miles (3.65 kWh/mile), and it's never been much higher than that.

nikwax · Jun 26, 2015

Upon further review (reading a lot of Tire Rack reviews), the Michelin Premier is said to have a severe mileage penalty, and is noisy. Seems to be optimized for wet weather performance.

I'll put forward another candidate: General G-Max AS-03. Ultra high performance all season, LRR per Consumer Reports, good reviews on TR, under $80 per tire.

Zoomit · Jun 26, 2015

There is no "right" answer, but the Tire Rack test results showed the Premier's mileage to be in the middle of the three other tires they compared it to.

Half way down in this: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=188

Either way, the General G-Max AS-03 should definitely be considered as well.

LRR Tire Availability (besides OE Ecopia EP150)

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