Bad 12V battery equals disabled car

[telero]

Had an issue last week where the Spark wouldn't power on normally. This was on a 3 week old 2016 1LT w/DCFS at 800 miles.

The week prior had one instance of the battery saver active message come on and the "READY" indicator next to the gear indicator on the instrument panel wasn't on. A few minutes and couple of power cycle attempts later it worked fine.

Then one night after work the following messages and indicators came on when attempting to power on:
1. Battery Saver Active
2. Service Battery Charging System
3. Service StabiliTrak
4. Service Brake Assist
5. Service Airbag
6. Shift to Park
7. Low Battery


Those messages plus the corresponding indicators (Car with exclamation point, Car with slippery tracks, Brake with exclamation point, Airbag, Battery, ABS, and P with Wrench) would all come/stay on after they would have normally turned off after a successful power on. Even the "Shift to Park" message while the indicator showed as being in park.

This happened when my wife was leaving work to come home around 10pm and 20 miles from home. I went up to try a simple jumpstart which did not work, then we used the OnStar button to report the problem. They got a hold of Chevrolet support who worked on getting a tow service. Unfortunately the tow was going to be about 90 minutes out, and it was already after 11pm by the time we got to this point. Since I was going to have to bring my wife back to work in the morning anyway, we decided to schedule the tow for the following morning. Unfortunately I didn't bring a multimeter to see what the battery was reading.

The following morning the tow was extremely easy. The driver was right on time and only needed the key. Dropped it off at the local dealer and got a call from them a couple hours later. They determined it needed a new 12V battery and had to order the AGM battery to be in the following day.

This is basically the same story as found here: http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3703. While this doesn't seem like a common problem, it's definitely happened before. Overall I was pleased with the OnStar, Chevy customer service, tow service, and service center. Slightly annoyed with the battery manufacturer.

 

[nikwax]

seems to happen with new 12 volt batteries. I have a colleague who had to have his Prius towed when the 12 volt battery failed in his new car. U shaped failure curve.

 

[NORTON]

Another aspect of automotive batteries is service shops only can do a quick 'Load Test' on them.
100 Amp for 10 seconds,,, or whatever it is.

The other test is a 'Capacity Test', where a steady draw of ~25 Amps is put on the battery and results are measured in 'minutes to 10 Volt'.
That's the 'Reserve Capacity' number you see on batteries.

In Aviation a battery should be 'Cap Checked' every year.

I had a case where I had the smallest hybrid ever sold here in America and the 12 V lead acid battery would pass the load test, but it was acting goofy and failing on me a few times.
I took it to work and gave it a Cap Check and it failed in <8 minutes instead of the rated 45 minutes.

I'm just pointing out car shops only have one simple way of testing a car battery. And sometimes it misses bad batteries.

When in doubt, treat the car to a brand new battery.

 

[EldRitch]

Worth pointing out that a dead 12v battery will disable a gas engined car, too.

 

[telero]

Worth pointing out that a dead 12v battery will disable a gas engined car, too.

True, but an ICE can usually be jumped without a good battery and then the alternator could possibly get you home or to a service center without a tow.

 

[EldRitch]

Yeah - I guess an alternator isn't much use when the motor stops at traffic lights.

 

[cwerdna]

I have a colleague who had to have his Prius towed when the 12 volt battery failed in his new car. U shaped failure curve.

He could've jumped start it. I had to do that w/my 06 Prius when my dad (who was borrowing it) flattened the 12 volt. It was down below 6 volts.

 

[kevin]

Worth pointing out that a dead 12v battery will disable a gas engined car, too.

True, but an ICE can usually be jumped without a good battery and then the alternator could possibly get you home or to a service center without a tow.

Surely an EV could do the same? The DC/DC converter would provide the power the Spark EV can provide up to ~2.2kW @ 12V.

Actually I suspect that you could not run a modern car without a battery - the alternator would not provide a stable enough voltage to run the car.

kevin

 

[telero]

Surely an EV could do the same? The DC/DC converter would provide the power the Spark EV can provide up to ~2.2kW @ 12V.

Actually I suspect that you could not run a modern car without a battery - the alternator would not provide a stable enough voltage to run the car.

kevin

Apparently not though. Would be nice if it would have, wouldn't have had to have it towed.

 

[wywa]

So could this car have been started by jumping the 12v battery? It doesn't seem that they actually tried to do this.

By substituting a good battery to enable a startup (and the current requirements of the startup sequence) would that allow the dc-dc converter to kick in to supply enough 12v to allow a road trip? After jumping could a 'battery eliminator' provide enough 12v to allow normal operation given that the dead cell battery is essentially a missing battery? Small 'battery eliminators' popular with dirt bikes are just capacitors (or perhaps some sort of active circuit).
--

 

[agdodgerfan]

So my spark just died. Same exact issue. It is at the dealer now. $213 for a 12 volt battery.

 

[evboy]

So my spark just died. Same exact issue. It is at the dealer now. $213 for a 12 volt battery.

is the 12v battery a special battery u have to buy from the dealer or can i just go to walmart and punch in my car model in their computer on the aisle and buy whatever it says there. 212 is alot for a battery.

 

[CCIE]

So my spark just died. Same exact issue. It is at the dealer now. $213 for a 12 volt battery.

is the 12v battery a special battery u have to buy from the dealer or can i just go to walmart and punch in my car model in their computer on the aisle and buy whatever it says there. 212 is alot for a battery.

It's an AGM battery. You should be able to put any AGM battery that's the correct group size in there. They're all pretty expensive, though you could probably find one in the $150-180 range.

 

[electrohawk]

What size group is it? Mine just died

 

[MrDRMorgan]

What size group is it? Mine just died

The AC Delco part number is LN1AGM and the GM part number is 88865429. Good luck finding one because this battery appears to have been discontinued. Please post if you find a source for a suitable replacement. The battery may only be available through a Chevy dealer and even that is questionable.

Update: You can find 2 batteries here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-88865429-Battery-/272522639467. Cost is $184.36 each and shipping is free.

 

[NORTON]

Lead Acid batteries have a shelf life.
And a natural self-discharge.
And go bad if not topped up periodically.

I would not spend a lot of money on a 2-3 year old suspect battery.

You need a fresh battery. They have that colored 'Date of Manufacture' sticker. Look for that. If it doesn't have that..... who knows how long it has been sitting.

Put any small battery in it and it will be fine. Even a small motorcycle battery.
All it does is boot up the car. And run the Onstar cell phone and remote key fob functions.
Fed standards call for running the headlights, emer flashers, etc for X amount of minutes on battery only. Who cares about that?

 

[CCIE]

Has anyone actually tried calling an AC Delco parts supplier and seeing if they can order part# LN1AGM? That's how I got the correct 12V battery for my Volt.

 

[NORTON]

Just to clarify, there are slight 'floating voltage' differences for an AGM vs. a typical Lead Acid. Very minor difference.

And I'd check the 'Manu Date' on any battery before purchase. They really degrade if just sitting on a shelf and not being charged periodically.

When my Spark EV 12V comes to 'End of Lift'... (may it RIP...), I plan on replacing it with a motorcycle 12V Li-ion drop in replacement. Maybe < 5 lbs. !!

Expensive, but coming down all the time and very Hi Tec Geeky !!

 

[electrohawk]

Just to clarify, there are slight 'floating voltage' differences for an AGM vs. a typical Lead Acid. Very minor difference.

And I'd check the 'Manu Date' on any battery before purchase. They really degrade if just sitting on a shelf and not being charged periodically.

When my Spark EV 12V comes to 'End of Lift'... (may it RIP...), I plan on replacing it with a motorcycle 12V Li-ion drop in replacement. Maybe < 5 lbs. !!

Expensive, but coming down all the time and very Hi Tec Geeky !!

Hmm, that is an interesting thought! I like your thinking... I just wonder if the charging is ok with that. Is it truly a drop in replacement? What models have you looked at, maybe I will go that route too

 

[CCIE]

Just to clarify, there are slight 'floating voltage' differences for an AGM vs. a typical Lead Acid. Very minor difference.

And I'd check the 'Manu Date' on any battery before purchase. They really degrade if just sitting on a shelf and not being charged periodically.

When my Spark EV 12V comes to 'End of Lift'... (may it RIP...), I plan on replacing it with a motorcycle 12V Li-ion drop in replacement. Maybe < 5 lbs. !!

Expensive, but coming down all the time and very Hi Tec Geeky !!

The APMs in GM PHEVs/EVs are designed to keep an AGM battery charged. My understanding is that the algorithm they use is specific to AGM. So, I'd be careful putting a lead-acid battery in. The lead-acid battery will be fine, but the AGM may have issues. Better to spend the extra money on an AGM replacement than risk that.