Bad 12V battery equals disabled car

[NORTON]

An AGM is just a slightly different Lead Acid. The chemicals are the same. The way the electrolyte is held in place is different. Thus the very slight different 'floating voltage'.
The biggest load the Spark EV battery would ever see is: powered down, headlights, flashers, brake lights, radio on and you are making an Onstar phone call, all at once.
Still, nothing compared to cranking an ICE with its DC starter motor.

The one thing that might mess with a Li-ion 12V replacement is the 'Anti-sulfation' cycle/routine the APM does periodically. It's a pulsed AC voltage, as I understand it.

I haven't done a lot of research on the subject, yet. But there are automotive and motorcycle 12 V Li-ion replacements and they have built in Hi-Lo voltage protection with the BMS that is built into the battery case.
What about under hood temps when it's 100° and you are running the AC, for hours?
I don't have all the answers... few really...

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Has anyone actually tried calling an AC Delco parts supplier and seeing if they can order part# LN1AGM? That's how I got the correct 12V battery for my Volt.

I contacted Interstate Batteries to see if they have a drop-in equivalent. Nope! We may only be able to get this battery from a Chevy dealer - if it is still available. I also have an inquiry into AC Delco to see if the battery has been discontinued and, if it has, what is it's replacement. I will post the answer when I receive it.

Update: This battery is used in a number of Chevy vehicles including the Bolt. Therefore, is should be available [expensive] through a Chevy dealer.

 

[electrohawk]

I ended up just submitting an online order at my local chevy:
$228.65 + tax + $11 core charge

They will have it in tomorrow.

Any tips on install? Just do like a normal battery?
I saw that other EV's or hybrids (dont remember which one) said online that it didn't like total loss of power and they had to put a charger on the circuit while they swapped.

 

[CCIE]

I ended up just submitting an online order at my local chevy:
$228.65 + tax + $11 core charge

They will have it in tomorrow.

Any tips on install? Just do like a normal battery?
I saw that other EV's or hybrids (dont remember which one) said online that it didn't like total loss of power and they had to put a charger on the circuit while they swapped.

I've disconnected the 12V battery on my Spark before. No issues. So, you can just swap it.

 

[NORTON]

..... an online order at my local chevy:
$228.65 + tax + $11 core charge.....

Holi Guacamole !! :shock:
For a small lead acid battery? That doesn't even crank an engine?
Ask then to show you the 'Manufacture Date' tag. It could be as old as the one you are taking out....

How is it going to be any different than, say, a small $79 Honda Civic battery from Wally's that was manufactured last month?

 

[JMenacker]

Advance Auto shows 12v Spark EV batteries available. Not sure if their database is correct or not . . . Perhaps the listed 6v batteries for Spark EV raised suspicion :shock:



Fitment Notes
2015 Chevrolet Spark EV LT
OE Spec: OE Group 140R; OE CCA 410; Battery Spec: 410 CCA

Joe M in WV

 

[CCIE]

..... an online order at my local chevy:
$228.65 + tax + $11 core charge.....

Holi Guacamole !! :shock:
For a small lead acid battery? That doesn't even crank an engine?
Ask then to show you the 'Manufacture Date' tag. It could be as old as the one you are taking out....

How is it going to be any different than, say, a small $79 Honda Civic battery from Wally's that was manufactured last month?

12V batteries, and especially AGM batteries, have gotten very expensive. The days of buying one for $50-75 are gone. The correct AC Delco replacement for my Volt cost about $200 last year.

 

[electrohawk]

..... an online order at my local chevy:
$228.65 + tax + $11 core charge.....

Holi Guacamole !! :shock:
For a small lead acid battery? That doesn't even crank an engine?
Ask then to show you the 'Manufacture Date' tag. It could be as old as the one you are taking out....

How is it going to be any different than, say, a small $79 Honda Civic battery from Wally's that was manufactured last month?

Now the same group size LN1, non-AGM that fits the ICE Spark... that one sells for $110

 

[SparkE]

If you wish to prolong the life of your 12V battery, here's a post I made a while ago :


It is important to make sure that the 12V (accessory) battery in your BEV is fully charged regularly so that it won't go bad. (Older Nissan Leafs were notorious for destroying 12V batteries in a short time, 6-18 months, due to their horrid 'keep battery charged' logic, which was crap.)

If one would like the 12V battery in an EV to last 8-12 years (instead of 1-4 years), I highly recommend a smart 'battery maintainer' to make sure that your battery is FULLY charged at least a couple of times a month. A 'fully charged' (saturated)12V lead-acid battery *should* read around 12.65-12.7V (with NO load). A lead-acid 12V battery that is 'low' (under 80%) and frequently under load (even a small load) will start to sulfate (crap sticks to the plates). One can prolong the life of the battery by doing a full charge every now and then, as a FULL (saturation) charge will get (almost) all of the crap that was stuck to the plates to dissolve back into the lead-acid solution in the cells.

Driving an EV only a 'short distance' daily may do the battery in after just a short time (a year or two). Generally, driving an EV enough to require 3+ hours of charging every other night might keep a 12V battery pretty close to full and thus in decent shape (since the 12V is charged/topped-up while the main Li battery is charging). I measured the voltage across the battery terminals in my Spark EV at different usage scenarios (car on 'ready to drive', during L2 charge, during DCFC charge) but I seem to have lost the paper I scribbled the info on. I seem to recall that 13.6V was the voltage provided to the acc battery from the main drive (L-Ion) battery when the car is being driven, but I can't swear to it (13.6V is low, IMO, if the battery needs a real charge - it's fine as a 'float' if the battery is close to full).

I bought a C-TEK battery maintainer, which I use 2-4 times a month to make sure the 12V battery in my Spark is absolutely, fully charged. It is a super-slow, auto-sensing, trickle charger (0.8A) with all the built-in bells and whistles. I used a voltmeter to check on charging behavior, and it is safe for AGM (absorbed glass mat) as I never saw the voltage go over 14.4V in ANY of the 6 charge modes. (The Battery Tender brand unit I tried *did* go over 14.6V, which is fine for old-style flooded lead-acid batteries, but not advised for AGM.) I use a standard 15A "smart" charger if a battery is darn low and really needs a significant charge; the CTEK is simply used to gently and safely top-off (fully saturate charge) the battery. Since the C-TEK has a "maintain" mode (and is pretty much fully sealed, although not safe to dunk) and fully automatic, I can just plug it in and let it trickle charge (as needed) overnight and unplug it the next morning when it shows that is has fully charged the battery and has switched to 'float' (maintain) mode. There are several good ones on the market - I got the C-TEK because it is AGM-safe (and has not only "de-sulfation" "bulk", and "absorption" basic charge modes, but also "float", and "pulse/check" modes, so I could leave it plugged in for weeks)

 

[sTeeve]

Last Fri night (10/20) after work, car wouldn't start. About 7pm. Keyfob didn't unlock; first clue. Use key to unlock, get in, try to start. Nothing.

Call OnStar and arrange for tow early Sat morning. Über home.

Sat morning, Über to car, remember to take a jump-start lithium battery with me: https://www.halo2cloud.com/products/halo-bolt-acdc-58830

Jump start car, horn starts honking, startling the crap out of me. DIC shows all kinds of error messages. Hmph.
OnStar says tow co. will arrive in 30 min. After one hour, OnStar calls and says "bad news, tow co. will be 80 min.".
I cancel the tow because I have someplace to be in 5 min (Decatur Beer Fest! I'm serving beer in the VIP section. Always a rockin' good time!). Arrange for tow Mon morning 730AM. OnStar says they'll text me 90 min prior.

Mon morning, 6AM I'm up and waiting. No text. Call Onstar at 630AM. They've entered the info into the computer incorrectly, thus no text. They setup a new tow request. Tow should arrive by 10AM.

Tow arrives 2PM. Sigh. Chevy dealer can't give me a loaner.
Tues, Chevy dealer calls. Come get a loaner, we have to keep your car for a while. Technician says "negative battery terminal leaked some acid, melted negative battery cable, must replace both, 3 days to find the parts".

They take me to Enterprise Rental, who gives me...wait for it...a Suburban. Ginormous fully optioned beached whale. Jeepers. :mrgreen:

 

[Taxman]

They take me to Enterprise Rental, who gives me...wait for it...a Suburban. Ginormous fully optioned beached whale. Jeepers. :mrgreen:

Now that'll easily match the fuel cost of your EV.
If you return it with an empty tank, who pays the fill charge?

 

[jth4]

Hi everybody. Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. It helped me and the dealership diagnose a non-start on my 2016 Chevy EV. I was running it in Accessory Mode which drained the 12v battery. It couldn't be jumped, so had to be towed. When I sent the dealership links to this thread, they had a new battery installed that day!

Moral of the story: don't use Accessory Mode! If you just start the car like normal, the 12v won't drain.

Thanks again! And hope everybody's enjoying the clean speed of the Spark! It's a fun ride for sure!

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hi everybody. Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. It helped me and the dealership diagnose a non-start on my 2016 Chevy EV. I was running it in Accessory Mode which drained the 12v battery. It couldn't be jumped, so had to be towed. When I sent the dealership links to this thread, they had a new battery installed that day!

Moral of the story: don't use Accessory Mode! If you just start the car like normal, the 12v won't drain.

Thanks again! And hope everybody's enjoying the clean speed of the Spark! It's a fun ride for sure!

YEP! A bad 12 volt AGM battery can turn your road rocket into a road rock! :lol:

 

[NORTON]

Moral of the story: don't use Accessory Mode! If you just start the car like normal, the 12v won't drain.

Thanks again! And hope everybody's enjoying the clean speed of the Spark! It's a fun ride for sure!

Another factor in the life of the 12V battery is it's history of sitting unused, unloved on dealership parking lots for months at a time.
All lead acid batteries degrade if allowed to self discharge and stay there.
Plus these cars have the Onstar (cellular) and key fob receivers powered up all the time.

Mine is hanging in there at +4 yrs, maybe over 5 yrs.
I put an anti-sulfation charger on it occasionally for a few days when I'm not using it. That may help...

 

[SparkE]

Mine is hanging in there at +4 yrs, maybe over 5 yrs.
I put an anti-sulfation charger on it occasionally for a few days when I'm not using it. That may help...

*definitely* !! I try and charge mine at least once a month, overnight, using a very low power, AGM-safe 'smart' trickle charger (0.8 amps). (By 'smart', I mean that it knows when the battery is full and stops charging.) I plug it in before bedtime and unplug it in the morning, fully charged.

 

[Tony]

I just had my share of fun with this. Parked at work and a couple hours later I was greeted with "Low Battery" on the monitor behind the steering wheel then all the other warnings lit up when it started, then no HVAC, then no monitors.

Steps to recovery:
1) I found a local AC Delco seller nearby
2) called for the battery (LN1AGM) and found nearby place with a few in stock
3) borrowed coworkers car
4) picked up a battery with a JAN19 date ($212.11 with tax, they waived core charge)
5) stopped for lunch
6) stopped at Lowe's for ratchet set (I don't live nearby for my own tools at home)
7) swapped battery and it started

If anyone else has to do similar steps, anyone that can do "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey" can do this. It's 3 bolts, the 2 on the battery terminals are 10mm and the one holding the battery in place is 13mm. The one holding the battery will require an extension common on any ratchet set (4+ inches long).

Disconnect negative (black) first and pull aside, disconnect positive (red) and set aside, remove 13mm with plastic holder that just lifts off and pull the battery out. Reconnect negative first and then positive. I heard something in the engine bay kick on once connected so I figured that was a success.

Saved me the hassle and expense of towing and expense of someone else doing it.

Total time (with research, lunch, driving, and Lowe's): 4 hours

Thanks to everyone here for helping me make educated guesses.

2014 2LT with DCFC, 31,000 miles

 

[SparkE]

Anyone with an EV should have a Li-Ion "jump start" unit available. They are small. You can connect it to the 12V battery, wait a minute, then start the car. Once the car is started, you can disconnect (the main battery powers/charges the 12V when the car is turned on). If the car has fits when you disconnect, then leave it connected under the hood (they are really small) and drive to a place where you can buy a new battery.

Without a working 12V battery your EV will NOT work.

 

[NORTON]

...Without a working 12V battery your EV will NOT work.

This true of all cars, no?
( I guess an old manual ICE with a weak battery can be push started.... )

But having a small Li-ion 'Boost Pack' or whatever they are called, can set you up to be someone's Hero some day !!! :mrgreen:

 

[SparkE]

...Without a working 12V battery your EV will NOT work.

This true of all cars, no?
( I guess an old manual ICE with a weak battery can be push started.... )

But having a small Li-ion 'Boost Pack' or whatever they are called, can set you up to be someone's Hero some day !!! :mrgreen:

But an ICE can be jump started and then drive away in a minute. An EV generally has to be charged for several minutes before trying to start the vehicle.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

...Without a working 12V battery your EV will NOT work.

This true of all cars, no?
( I guess an old manual ICE with a weak battery can be push started.... )

But having a small Li-ion 'Boost Pack' or whatever they are called, can set you up to be someone's Hero some day !!! :mrgreen:

But an ICE can be jump started and then drive away in a minute. An EV generally has to be charged for several minutes before trying to start the vehicle.

So, the question still remains unanswered. Can a Spark EV or Bolt EV, with a failing 12v AGM battery, be powered up sufficiently by a Li ion jump start battery to bring the car to life so the car can be driven home or to get a new battery? One would have to assume the 12v AGM battery does not have a shorted cell that would also drain the Li-ion jump-start battery. If this does work, Harbor Freight has a nice Li-ion jump start battery that should work great for this application.

But... why not take action to prevent a battery failure in the first place by monthly charging the 12 volt AGM battery to 100%? It has been suggested in other posts on this forum that monthly charging with a charger that also has a de-sulfating function will keep the battery healthy and extend it's life as well. I have been following this suggestion for about a year and a half now and have not had any battery problems. Out of caution, I replaced the 12 volt battery in my 2014 Spark EV just after I purchased it as a used car and started seeing battery issues pop up on this forum. My 2016 Spark EV - also purchased used - still has the original battery. Still... I like the idea of carrying a Li-ion battery for just-in-case emergencies.