Battery warranty advice for 2014 Spark

[Porsche]

Last I checked, battery replacement for a Spark was something like around fifteen thousand dollars. That's more than twice what I paid for my 2015. Seems like a pretty strong incentive not to provide warranty service. I think I read in an article somewhere that (for not sure which particular model, but not a Spark) Chevy had never had to do a warranty battery replacement, even once. Note the word "had". There's a big difference between "did" and "had". Just because they never "did" one doesn't mean they never "had" to do one. BTW, I still love my Spark. It's brilliant.

 

[niik]

I love my spark too. That's why this situation is so upsetting to me. Like all the issues and headaches are because of the bad dealer service not because of the car.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Last I checked, battery replacement for a Spark was something like around fifteen thousand dollars. That's more than twice what I paid for my 2015. Seems like a pretty strong incentive not to provide warranty service. I think I read in an article somewhere that (for not sure which particular model, but not a Spark) Chevy had never had to do a warranty battery replacement, even once. Note the word "had". There's a big difference between "did" and "had". Just because they never "did" one doesn't mean they never "had" to do one. BTW, I still love my Spark. It's brilliant.

Chevy is currently having to replace many bolt batteries due to battery fires.

 

[niik]

So not much has changed.

I got transferred to a new person at GM. I'm not sure if it's tier 3 or just a different tier 2 person.

The new GM caseworker contacted the dealer I took my car to (Fairway Chevrolet) and now they are saying that the test they performed would not provide the kWh measurement. GM also contacted the other dealer in my area (Findlay Chevrolet) and they told GM that they could perform the capacity/degradation test. The issue with that is that's the first dealer I tried to go to and they told me they couldn't do the test. So now I am trying to get a confirmation from them, but they are not returning my calls or emails.

I also contacted greentecauto.com since they are the only third party in my area that I could find that does any work on hybrids or EV's. I asked them if they could test the battery and they said they would need to remove it and connect it to their benchtop testing equipment. They recommended taking it to the dealer

One of my coworkers knows a Chevy technician. He asked them about this and they said that GM sells the EV tools in kits and my local dealers might not have bought the kit required for this test, since it's different than the base EV support kit. So that could explain the gap between what the manual is saying and what the dealers are saying. I plan to try calling a Chevy dealer in LA or someplace that has a higher EV presence and see if they give a different answer.

 

[Infinion]

now they are saying that the test they performed would not provide the kWh measurement.

Sounds like a runaround and severe miscommunication between staff without any accountability!? Or they have the capability but failed to use the equipment properly?

GM also contacted the other dealer in my area (Findlay Chevrolet) and they told GM that they could perform the capacity/degradation test. The issue with that is that's the first dealer I tried to go to and they told me they couldn't do the test. So now I am trying to get a confirmation from them, but they are not returning my calls or emails.

Ghosted by a dealership...

It's extremely concerning how challenging it has been for you to investigate a warranty claim. Lots of fellow Spark owners are due for a future warranty claim and are likely counting on it to keep these cars on the road for another decade. Half a year to get testing done is time that could put an owner into expired warranty territory. Will GM honor a warranty requested before expiry but carried out after? Will there be distrust between owner and dealership that a proper test was carried out? If a test is not done correctly (just reading codes) can an owner facilitate issues with GM headquarters after an expired warranty period passes?

A 3rd party makes sense, but how would costs be handled, and would GM recognize their testing? Perhaps you could do business with a dealership that is facilitating Bolt EV recalls? As this youtuber says, and this is fairly anecdotal but logical, if you see quite a few bolts, they could be facilitating recalls and have a lot of experienced EV staff working there, meaning they should be more likely to have the proper tools and equipment as they need to facilitate battery replacements and capacity testing for many customers.

 

[niik]

Thanks for the video link. I tried calling the EV Concierge number that was shown in the video, but they said it's only for Bolt support and transferred me to the normal GM support line for assistance with my Spark. :roll:

Sounds like a runaround and severe miscommunication between staff without any accountability!? Or they have the capability but failed to use the equipment properly?

Definitely a bunch of runarounds and no accountability. I don't think it was really a miscommunication since my work order clearly stated I wanted the capacity and degradation measured. I would expect a certified EV technician to know what that means and know that it should return a kWh result.

It's extremely concerning how challenging it has been for you to investigate a warranty claim. Lots of fellow Spark owners are due for a future warranty claim and are likely counting on it to keep these cars on the road for another decade.

I agree. This process has been very concerning to me. I don't really have high expectations of dealerships but I did expect GM corporate to resolve the issue and they haven't. My conspiracy guess is that the dealers don't really care if they lose my business because the Spark is a low-cost car and they know I'm not a big spender. So the dealerships are prioritizing more profitable customers. I have lost a lot of trust in GM to hold their dealers accountable and ensure they are providing quality service and warranty support.

I hope that by the end of this I will have found the right words to say and questions to ask to get the battery tested for warranty service. Then I can share them here so others can have an easier time.

I saw on another post that MrDRMorgan bought the service manual, maybe they can look and tell me what page the battery testing procedure is on? Then I'll just go tell the dealer "I want the test described on page xxx"

 

[Infinion]

I hope that by the end of this I will have found the right words to say and questions to ask to get the battery tested for warranty service. Then I can share them here so others can have an easier time.

I saw on another post that MrDRMorgan bought the service manual, maybe they can look and tell me what page the battery testing procedure is on? Then I'll just go tell the dealer "I want the test described on page xxx"

I also have access to a service manual through an online subscription with ALLDATAdiy.com. I've been looking through the many technical service bulletins tonight and wasn't finding anything precisely named that would lead me to complete testing procedures, but I decided to comb harder through all the bulletins and I think I might have something very close to what you were asking for.

Here is the technical service bulletin for the Spark EV's High Voltage Battery Exchange Process. https://imgur.com/a/bb0fbRg There are 9 pages to review. Within it, instructions on information collection and diagnosis start after "Recommendation/Instructions" on page 2. Hopefully, you can study and use the specific language to your advantage.

As a bonus, I just found a non-service manual archive for technical service bulletins, It's quite amazing how complete it is. Better than what comes with AlldataDIY's service manual and it's free to boot. Definitely adding this one to my arsenal.

Here is that bulletin I patched together earlier, except superseded to the most recent 2018 version. Looks clearer with better formatting and some added info. https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/PIP5112R
Another, Warranty Administration – High Voltage Battery Exchange Process and Transaction Submission Information https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/18-NA-180
Here's another bulletin where they share information on retrofitting 2014 vehicles with 2016 battery packs, perhaps for when they run out of A123 systems' LIFEPO4 packs? https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/17-NA-003

Here is another technical service bulletin I came across regarding warranty administration in customer reimbursement. Maybe you can get reimbursed? https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/11-00-89-004B definitions for field action are here Field Action means any recall, removal, correction, or withdrawal, with respect to any Product.
And another one regarding dealer reimbursement procedures for advisor "empowerment tools". The framing is a little disturbing "...with enhanced empowerment tools, to drive more customers into GM dealerships..."
https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/15-00-89-003
If you want to search for other bulletins just filter by your make and model, and either filter for some keyword in the title or the TSB number.

 

[niik]

Wow. Thanks for looking all this up.

If there isn't a capacity/degradation test in the manual than it makes sense why the dealership is telling me they don't have a test.
The only reference I saw to capacity was in relation to the capacity code on the battery. I'll keep looking through the resources you sent but it looks like GM might have some explaining to do if their warranty process requires a test that doesn't exist.

 

[MisturChips]

Torque is now reporting mine as 12.9kWh, down from 13.0.

I'm REALLY enjoying the car so far. Current trip odometer is around 960mi, and is at 4.5Mi/kWh, even though I live at the top of a hill!

 

[niik]

Torque is now reporting mine as 12.9kWh, down from 13.0.

I'm REALLY enjoying the car so far. Current trip odometer is around 960mi, and is at 4.5Mi/kWh, even though I live at the top of a hill!

What year is your spark and what's its total mileage?
I should check torque again and see if my numbers have changed since I started talking with the dealership/GM.

I recently signed up for the recurrentauto.com service. It's supposed to pull battery information using the onStar data connection. Then it will generate battery heath reports once it collects enough data.

 

[niik]

This journey is finally coming to a conclusion.

I took my car to a second dealer on Monday (22 Nov) and they called me Wednesday (24 Nov) and said the battery capacity tested below the warranty level and will need to be replaced. They have placed the order for the parts and all the costs will be covered by the warranty. They won't know the availability of the parts till Monday (29 Nov) when the suppliers open after the holiday.

I still need to get the kWh result from the dealer so I can see how close my calculations were to the official measurements.
Also, there could be parts shortages that delay the repair but at least the process is started.

Recap of events (some dates are estimates*):

• 30 July - Took the car to Findlay Chevrolet. They told me that there was not a test for battery capacity/degradation and that they couldn't help me.

• 30 July - Called GM corporate to get warranty clarification. How can my battery capacity be warrantied if there is no test for capacity?

• 3 Aug* - GM called back and said they contacted Fairway Chevrolet and that dealer would be able to perform the required tests.

• 16 Aug - Dropped the car off at Fairway Chevrolet for testing and told them I wanted the High voltage battery capacity and degradation tested (it's on the work order recipe).

• 18 Aug - Picked up car from Fairway Chevrolet and paid $190. They said the test showed "Battery is within GM specs." I asked for the kWh measurement when I picked it up but was told I would need to get those numbers from GM HQ because the scanner sends the logs to GM and the technician did not have them.

• 19 Aug* - Called GM and they did not know what I was talking about and that they could not give me the kWh info cause they did not have it.

• 20 Aug* - Realized I had the whole service on dashcam. Fairway Chevrolet only had my car in the shop for about 30 minutes and the technician only spend 5-10 min looking at my car and the rest of the time they talked with other technicians.

• 23 Aug - Received this message from GM: "...as you have the diagnoses from the dealership that the battery is within specs that no repair will be made and the battery will not be replaced at this time." I messaged back that I did not believe Fairway Chevrolet performed the correct tests and I had done my own measurements that showed the battery was 40% degraded, and that I needed GM to provide kWh measurement to confirm or disprove my results before I would be satisfied.

• Got busy with work

• 20 Sept - Emailed Fairway Chevrolet about my dissatisfaction with the service.

• 22 Sept – Emailed Fairway Chevrolet again requesting a response to my complaint.

• 23 Sept – Received a message back from Fairway with this statement: ”As per GM repair procedure if no codes are set, there is no further action to be taken.”

• 23 Sept – Forwarded the message from Fairway to GM. I emphasized that the warranty does not require “codes to be set” for a capacity/degradation claim.

• 1,6,11,14 Oct – Phone calls with GM. My case was “escalated” so I needed to catch the new person up and we discussed what to do next.

• 21 Oct – GM told me that Findlay Chevrolet could perform the correct test.

• 28 Oct – Messaged Findlay Chevrolet through their website to confirm they could perform the test and schedule service

• 5 Nov – Had not received a response from my first request. Called Findlay Chevrolet and left a message with one of their service people with my info and questions.

• 8 Nov – Still no response from Findlay Chevrolet. So I called again and this time told them I would hold till they could answer my question. They confirmed they could perform the Capacity/Degradation test so I scheduled my service for Monday 22 Nov

• 22 Nov – Dropped the car off at Findlay Chevrolet

• 24 Nov – received a call from Findlay Chevrolet that the battery failed the test and would be replaced under warranty.

I don't know why Findlay Chevrolet told me they could not test the capacity/degradation the first time I asked, lack of EV knowledge and experience is my guess. However, Fairway Chevrolet was a total "Stealership" in my opinion. My coworker also took his Volt to them and he had a similarly bad experience.

 

[SparkE]

Personally, I would escalate the poor service issue to GM. I would underline that Fairway charged you for the service and did not perform the test. Tell them that you have dash-cam footage that proves it. Request a reimbursement for the testing fee (ask from GM, and tell them it is up to GM to get the money back from Fairway). YOUR time that Fairway *wasted* is worth more than the service fee, and you really should be reimbursed over $500 for your time, but you aren't asking for that.

Also, ask GM if there are any *actual, qualified* EV-trained technicians at any dealership within 50 miles, because based on the history so far, Fairway has no idea what to do with an EV. Suggest to GM that they retrain/ re-certify a technician from Fairway before the warranty work is done.

PS: Thanks immensely for the update. It will be interesting to hear how the warranty work went. I don't think that we have heard yet from a forum member on warranty battery replacement.

PPS: I *think* that 2014 Spark EVs have a 35% battery degradation limit for warranty work. (and maybe even the 2015 model as well.) MrDrMorgan would know. My 2015 is still at about 17 kWh, so around 90%.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Personally, I would escalate the poor service issue to GM. I would underline that Fairway charged you for the service and did not perform the test. Tell them that you have dash-cam footage that proves it. Request a reimbursement for the testing fee (ask from GM, and tell them it is up to GM to get the money back from Fairway). YOUR time that Fairway *wasted* is worth more than the service fee, and you really should be reimbursed over $500 for your time, but you aren't asking for that.

Also, ask GM if there are any *actual, qualified* EV-trained technicians at any dealership within 50 miles, because based on the history so far, Fairway has no idea what to do with an EV. Suggest to GM that they retrain/ re-certify a technician from Fairway before the warranty work is done.

PS: Thanks immensely for the update. It will be interesting to hear how the warranty work went. I don't think that we have heard yet from a forum member on warranty battery replacement.

PPS: I *think* that 2014 Spark EVs have a 35% battery degradation limit for warranty work. (and maybe even the 2015 model as well.) MrDrMorgan would know. My 2015 is still at about 17 kWh, so around 90%.

Indeed, I do know! On page 14 of the 2014 Spark EV Limited Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklet, it states under Spark EV Coverage - Propulsion Battery Warranty Policy: "...depending on use, the battery may degrade as little as 10% to as much as 35% of capacity over the warranty period". The warranty period is 8 years or 100k miles. Further, the coverage states "If warranty repair requires replacement, the high voltage battery may be replaced with either a new or factory reconditioned high voltage battery with an energy capacity (kWh) storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair".

The HV battery capacity in my 2014 Spark EV is currently about 14 kWh (Torque Pro data) with 30k miles on the odometer. Another unanswered question is this - what was the starting HV battery capacity when the car rolled off of the assembly line?

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Personally, I would escalate the poor service issue to GM. I would underline that Fairway charged you for the service and did not perform the test. Tell them that you have dash-cam footage that proves it. Request a reimbursement for the testing fee (ask from GM, and tell them it is up to GM to get the money back from Fairway). YOUR time that Fairway *wasted* is worth more than the service fee, and you really should be reimbursed over $500 for your time, but you aren't asking for that.

Also, ask GM if there are any *actual, qualified* EV-trained technicians at any dealership within 50 miles, because based on the history so far, Fairway has no idea what to do with an EV. Suggest to GM that they retrain/ re-certify a technician from Fairway before the warranty work is done.

PS: Thanks immensely for the update. It will be interesting to hear how the warranty work went. I don't think that we have heard yet from a forum member on warranty battery replacement.

PPS: I *think* that 2014 Spark EVs have a 35% battery degradation limit for warranty work. (and maybe even the 2015 model as well.) MrDrMorgan would know. My 2015 is still at about 17 kWh, so around 90%.

Indeed, I do know! On page 14 of the 2014 Spark EV Limited Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklet, it states under Spark EV Coverage - Propulsion Battery Warranty Policy: "...depending on use, the battery may degrade as little as 10% to as much as 35% of capacity over the warranty period". The warranty period is 8 years or 100k miles. Further, the coverage states "If warranty repair requires replacement, the high voltage battery may be replaced with either a new or factory reconditioned high voltage battery with an energy capacity (kWh) storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair".

The HV battery capacity in my 2014 Spark EV is currently about 14 kWh (Torque Pro data) with 30k miles on the odometer. Another unanswered question is this - what was the starting HV battery capacity when the car rolled off of the assembly line?

Addendum: I believe the 8-year warranty on my 2014 Spark EV will expire in June 2022.

 

[NORTON]

Addendum: I believe the 8-year warranty on my 2014 Spark EV will expire in June 2022.

Yikes !!! :shock:
I'm right behind you...
Then what happens to us GM BEV Early Adapters? :?

 

[niik]

energy capacity (kWh) storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair"

It kind of sucks that the warranty only "Guarantees" 10% improvement over whatever the current capacity is. Luckily it seems like the current GM process has them replacing the battery with a new one, at least that is what it sounded like over the phone. I'll add that to my questions Monday if it's a new battery or a refurbished one.

Yikes !!!
I'm right behind you...
Then what happens to us GM BEV Early Adapters?

Ya, my warranty expires in 4 months (Apr 2022). I don't think that most owners will have degradation as bad as my Spark. I think that the combination of Las Vegas heat (115°+) and the previous owners charging habits lead to the extra degradation. Like when it's that hot out the Spark can use around 40% of its charge just on "battery conditioning" also since that takes a lot of energy it leads to needing to DC fast change more often compounding the heat issues. So if the previous owner had a long drive to work they probably needed to charge on both ends and maybe in the middle too. Also based on the paint fade I think it was parked outside in the sun making the heat that much worse. That's just speculation but since most users here don't seem to have as much degradation I feel like it's probably something related to the environment the car lived in.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

energy capacity (kWh) storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair"

It kind of sucks that the warranty only "Guarantees" 10% improvement over whatever the current capacity is. Luckily it seems like the current GM process has them replacing the battery with a new one, at least that is what it sounded like over the phone. I'll add that to my questions Monday if it's a new battery or a refurbished one.

Yikes !!!
I'm right behind you...
Then what happens to us GM BEV Early Adapters?

Ya, my warranty expires in 4 months (Apr 2022). I don't think that most owners will have degradation as bad as my Spark. I think that the combination of Las Vegas heat (115°+) and the previous owners charging habits lead to the extra degradation. Like when it's that hot out the Spark can use around 40% of its charge just on "battery conditioning" also since that takes a lot of energy it leads to needing to DC fast change more often compounding the heat issues. So if the previous owner had a long drive to work they probably needed to charge on both ends and maybe in the middle too. Also based on the paint fade I think it was parked outside in the sun making the heat that much worse. That's just speculation but since most users here don't seem to have as much degradation I feel like it's probably something related to the environment the car lived in.

With 14,000 miles on the ODO [June 2018], my 2014 Spark EV had a battery capacity of 17.2 kWh as measured by TorquePro. At 27,343 miles [May 2021] the battery capacity had dropped to 14.2 kWh. Today, at 30,015 miles on the ODO [Nov 2021], my battery capacity is 14.3 kWh. The drop from 17.2 kWh to 14.2 kWh was very linear. But, for the last 2700 miles, it has flatlined at 14.2 - 14.3 kWh. The GOM is running about 75 - 80 miles after a full L1 charge. I do not have the DCFC option on my 2014 Spark EV and almost all charging is done using the 120 VAC L1 charger that came with the car. The most recent GOM is 75 miles. My warranty ends in June 2022.

My 2016 Spark EV, which does have DCFC, is usually charged using my Bosch L2 charger or EVgo and Electrify America DCFC chargers. At 10,284 miles on the ODO [June 2018], the battery capacity measured 16.6 kWh. At 36,565 miles on the ODO [Nov 2021], the battery capacity measured 13.8 kWh. The drop in capacity has been mostly linear. The most recent GOM is 87 miles. My warranty ends in Aug 2024. This vehicle might shortly be a candidate for a battery replacement.

 

[zzzzzzzz]

My 2016 has been holding steady at a "calculated" average of 13.07 kW since 11/16/2020. Assuming 2016 capacity is 18.5 kW, that average would be 70.6%. I have right now about 70k miles on it, so I'd guess that on 11/16/20 my odometer was between 55k-60k ish given my total commute each weekday is 40 miles.

I'm really hoping it'll go down to 40% soon...hopefully not in a few years...when car prices cool and my warranty is up. I love the car for it's cheap buy in and torque but absolutely despise Mary Barra and Government Motors.

 

[niik]

So some of the parts are on backorder. I currently have the car back while we wait for the parts to arrive.

It turns out that the battery replacement on the 2014 Spark is an even bigger job than I expected. I already knew that it would need new wiring to work with the LG pack but it also requires new battery mounts and new suspension, since the weight is different, as well as other supporting things to make it all fit and work together.

Since the time to get the repair completed is unknown, and honestly, the car works fine and meets my needs. I am going to see if GM is willing to buy out my warranty and just pay me some money and call it done. If they offer an unreasonably low number or say it's not an option, that's fine I can wait and the new battery will ensure the car can last me another 8+ years.

 

[MisturChips]

Torque is now reporting mine as 12.9kWh, down from 13.0.

I'm REALLY enjoying the car so far. Current trip odometer is around 960mi, and is at 4.5Mi/kWh, even though I live at the top of a hill!

What year is your spark and what's its total mileage?
I should check torque again and see if my numbers have changed since I started talking with the dealership/GM.

I recently signed up for the recurrentauto.com service. It's supposed to pull battery information using the onStar data connection. Then it will generate battery heath reports once it collects enough data.

Mine is a 2014. Did they start with 19 or 21kWH?
If 21, then 13.65 is the lower limit, and I believe in CA there is a 10 year 100,000mi battery warranty.
If 19, then 12.35 is the number to reach.
I should stop by my local dealer now and start the process of extending the useful life of the lil' fella several more years...

I'm just over 91.5k on the odomoter, and got it used a couple months ago.