battery warranty in writing location?

[CSW]

Can anybody point me to where it says, in writing, that Chevy will replace the battery if capacity drops below 35 or 40%? I can't find it in the warranty booklet. I only see where it says to expect degradation up to 40% for the life of the warranty..... I ask because I have a 2016 Spark with 3 weeks left on the lease, and the battery capacity now is about 15kwh with 40k miles on the car. I would like to buy it, but I want to make sure of the battery warranty situation.

 

[SparkE]

Search this forum for "warranty" . It has been posted here before . The 2016 is 40% (but what 40% means is up for debate).

60% left of 20 kWh is (obviously) 12 kWh.
60% of 18.5 is 11.1

And the warranty doesn't specify "new condition" (original range) of replacement battery - but it 'should' bring you up to above 60% . (IIRC)

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I purchased my 2016 Spark EV 2LT as a used vehicle with 6,500 miles on the odometer. At 10,000 miles, my "calculated" battery capacity was 17.7 but at 11,000 miles, my TorquePro measured battery capacity was 16.8 kWh. My most recent TorquePro battery capacity measurement for my 2016 Spark EV is 14.9 kWh at 26,717 miles. My TorquePro measured battery capacity has dropped 1.9 kWh in about 16,000 miles for a degradation rate of about 1.0 kWh every 8,000 miles.

The extended trendline on my graph indicates my battery capacity will drop to 14.0 kWh at about 37,000 miles which is about 1 year away at my present driving rate. So I can expect my battery capacity to be approximately 14 kWh in Dec 2020, 13 kWh in Dec 2021 and 12 kWh in Dec 2022. Looks like I am on target for a warranty replacement battery in 2021 - 2022.

My leased new 2015 Spark EV - now turned back in - had a calculated battery capacity of 19.0 kWh at 1000 miles and was down to 15.5 kWh at 29k miles when I turned it in at the end of the lease.

 

[CSW]

Thanks for the info. That is kinda the timeline I was figuring as well using the "seat of my pants" calculations. I really dislike dealing with a car dealership on any level, either the sales or service departments, and I wonder what kinda fight it will be if/when you take your spark in for possible warranty battery replacement.... The dealer can just say "it is fine", and there pretty much nothing I can do about it. Not like I can hire some lawyers or something to go after them....... I have almost zero faith that the dealer will do the right thing when it comes to this battery situation......

 

[CSW]

So, to buy or not to buy, that is the question. Getting a Bolt is tempting, but lots more $$. The Spark would be enough for another 2-3 years for the commute, but then the battery will be gone enough to where it may not make the distance...... then what?? Warranty? maybe. Sell it? it be worth like 10 bucks at that point. Sigh.

 

[NORTON]

I personally don't understand all the fretting about the pack dropping to ~60% capacity.
Are people seeing a death spiral trend in their Cap Numbers?

I plot mine occasionally in an .xls. Here's some resent numbers:

Mileage-date- % Used- kWh used- Present Capacity kWh- Temp- % of Orig-Cap
66924 6-11-19 61% 11.5 18.85 56 97%
69688 8-22-19 62% 11.6 18.71 70 96%
70001 8-29-19 81% 15 18.52 67 95%
70488 9-14-19 59% 11 18.64 60 96%
70597 9-16-19 59% 11 18.64 70 96%
70696 9-18-19 56% 10.3 18.39 70 94%
72131 10-21-19 80% 14.7 18.38 44 94%
72467 10-28-19 78% 15.1 19.36 39 99%

Sorry, can't get the spacing to display better. This is using a 19.5 kWh as the starting Cap. This is using the data displayed at shutdown on the Energy Page.
Is my car lying to me?

"it be worth like 10 bucks at that point. Sigh."
Really? I'll give you $10 for a fast little 40-50 mile range EV !

I attended some local 'Clean Energy' Talk.
One speaker that 'knew' about batteries went on and on about 'When the pack drops to 80% in 5 years the EV owner will have to replace the pack...'

I briefly mentioned how my 5 yr old EV is doing and stated, "If a Gasser had it's gas tank shrink to 80% capacity would the owner replace the gas tank if it costs in the thousands?"

BTW, it's winter ! :? It's currently displaying on the GOM 62-67 miles. I use heat. I drive fast. I keep it plugged in as much as possible.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

So, to buy or not to buy, that is the question. Getting a Bolt is tempting, but lots more $$. The Spark would be enough for another 2-3 years for the commute, but then the battery will be gone enough to where it may not make the distance...... then what?? Warranty? maybe. Sell it? it be worth like 10 bucks at that point. Sigh.

Sounds a little grim . Every Friday I have to drive my 2016 Spark EV from my home to Oakland, CA and back. This trip takes me over two Kwh-eating passes. To this I have recently added using the cabin heater as it is cold in the late evening when I return and I have to have the headlights on too. The total round trip is 135 miles and, If I am lucky, I will average about 4.5 kWh per mile and need 30 kWh to complete the trip.

For the past couple of years I have had only one DCFC charging location that I could use along my route . I stop and charge at this location both going and returning home. But, my HV battery is slowly degrading (currently 14.9 kWh) and the "range cushion" I used to enjoy is disappearing. Fortunately, a new Electrify America station recently opened along my route as did a new EVgo station and, another Electrify America station should open in January. The EA stations have BTCPower chargers which work for a Spark EV. EVgo chargers have always worked for me.

What does all of this mean? If you are willing / able to make more charging stops, range is not a problem. Where I used to make two stops per round trip, I now make four. It takes about 8 - 10 minutes per stop but I can now drive in comfort with a WARM cabin.

SELL Sparky? NEVER!! I live in hope that businesses to rebuild HV batteries will spring up soon.

 

[SparkE]

Every Friday I have to drive my 2016 Spark EV from my home to Oakland, CA and back. This trip takes me over two Kwh-eating passes. To this I have recently added using the cabin heater as it is cold in the late evening when I return and I have to have the headlights on too. The total round trip is 135 miles and, If I am lucky, I will average about 4.5 kWh per mile and need 30 kWh to complete the trip.
{...}
What does all of this mean? If you are willing / able to make more charging stops, range is not a problem. Where I used to make two stops per round trip, I now make four. It takes about 8 - 10 minutes per stop but I can now drive in comfort with a WARM cabin.

I understand the concepts of "range anxiety" and "go with what you know", but couldn't you easily only do 3 stops? Or aren't any of the DCFCs on the bay-side of the Altamont convenient for where you are headed?

There are obviously a slew in Livermore-Pleasanton for out-and-back stops, but couldn't a third (between 2 stops in Livermore) easily be one of :
- Lucky San Leandro (just before heading back up the pass) - 4 EVgo units off I-580 @ Fairmont
- Lafayette Sq (downtown OAK) - 4 EVgo units off I-880, 10th St
- Whole foods, 230 Bay PL (OAK, just N of L Merritt, near I-980&I-580) - 4 EVgo units

(Again, I don't know where in OAK you are headed, taking I-880 or I-580, or neither.)

PS:
- soon, an EA site in Castro Valley - 3 units
- soon, an EA site SE of L Merritt (4 units), 18th St
- soon, an EVgo site NE of L Merritt (6 units) , Lake Park Ave just off I-580
- EA just opened a 6-unit site on the Alameda

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Every Friday I have to drive my 2016 Spark EV from my home to Oakland, CA and back. This trip takes me over two Kwh-eating passes. To this I have recently added using the cabin heater as it is cold in the late evening when I return and I have to have the headlights on too. The total round trip is 135 miles and, If I am lucky, I will average about 4.5 kWh per mile and need 30 kWh to complete the trip.
{...}
What does all of this mean? If you are willing / able to make more charging stops, range is not a problem. Where I used to make two stops per round trip, I now make four. It takes about 8 - 10 minutes per stop but I can now drive in comfort with a WARM cabin.

I understand the concepts of "range anxiety" and "go with what you know", but couldn't you easily only do 3 stops? Or aren't any of the DCFCs on the bay-side of the Altamont convenient for where you are headed?

There are obviously a slew in Livermore-Pleasanton for out-and-back stops, but couldn't a third (between 2 stops in Livermore) easily be one of :
- Lucky San Leandro (just before heading back up the pass) - 4 EVgo units off I-580 @ Fairmont
- Lafayette Sq (downtown OAK) - 4 EVgo units off I-880, 10th St
- Whole foods, 230 Bay PL (OAK, just N of L Merritt, near I-980&I-580) - 4 EVgo units

(Again, I don't know where in OAK you are headed, taking I-880 or I-580, or neither.)

PS:
- soon, an EA site in Castro Valley - 3 units
- soon, an EA site SE of L Merritt (4 units), 18th St
- soon, an EVgo site NE of L Merritt (6 units) , Lake Park Ave just off I-580
- EA just opened a 6-unit site on the Alameda

It is 40 miles from my home in Manteca to the EVgo stations (3) located at the San Francisco Premium Outlets in Livermore. This requires going over the Altamont Pass which really gobbles kWhs. My final destination is about 30 miles further over another pass to Castro Valley, up 580 to the Warren Fwy (13) and finally North on the Warren Freeway. Until recently, the EVgo chargers at SFPO were my only options going both ways. So far, none of the Electrify America chargers (ABB) at the SFPO work for a Spark EV.

Now I have working Electrify America (BTCPower) chargers at the Metro 580 location in Pleasanton and the 4 working EVgo chargers at the Lucky Market in San Leandro just off of Fairmont. The Electrify America chargers (BTCPower) at the Bank of America in Castro Valley should be open sometime after the first of the year.

It can get a bit tricky to drive back home from Pleasanton if I am gobbling power like mad - headlights, heater, 65 mph+, etc. There is an EVgo station in Tracy that I can use if I am desperate but so far, a 90% charge in Livermore / Pleasanton gets me home with about 25 miles remaining. That will drop as my battery continues to degrade.

My biggest gripe right now is that the Electrify America chargers manufactured by ABB "DO NOT" work for charging a Spark EV. That limits where I can go more than the battery degradation I have experienced so far. And yes, ABB and Electrify America are both fully aware of the Spark EV charging problem.

 

[CSW]

EA chargers do not work for the Spark??!! This is not good news! WTH man!

 

[MrDRMorgan]

EA chargers do not work for the Spark??!! This is not good news! WTH man!

Electrify America chargers manufactured by ABB do not work for charging Spark EVs. Electrify America chargers manufactured by BTCPower and possibly Signet (I have only tried one) work just fine. Unfortunately, in California and other states, there are many of the EA ABB chargers installed. 6 months ago, I notified Electrify America and demonstrated the Spark EV charging problem to an EA representative and an ABB representative. I still have not gotten an answer from Electrify America or ABB as to when they will have the problem fixed.

 

[CSW]

Good gravy.
Gives me flashbacks to the early days when i got a 2014 spark in late 2013 and the charger port was made wrong and NO superchargers would work on it........
Why on Earth would it not work with a Spark??? What so different about a Sparks system??

Well, as for the battery range on my 2016, and to buy it or not, one ideal thing would be if work installed any sort of charger, that would make for ZERO range issue.

OR even if they let me use a 110v outlet and my portable charger, even at 8 amps, 4mph, i would easily gain 30 miles of range while at work.
BUT! It is a school and I can't be using government energy without permission, and good luck with that.......

I have even thought about asking some of the homeowners around the school if i could use a 110v plug at their house and pay for the electricity, but that kinda weird.

I am leaning towards buying the Spark, I have given back 2 other Sparks and I know I would miss having a Spark if I did not have one......

SO it is looking like we are going to be a Spark and a Volt family. (I already have a Volt)

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Good gravy.
Gives me flashbacks to the early days when i got a 2014 spark in late 2013 and the charger port was made wrong and NO superchargers would work on it........
Why on Earth would it not work with a Spark??? What so different about a Sparks system??

Well, as for the battery range on my 2016, and to buy it or not, one ideal thing would be if work installed any sort of charger, that would make for ZERO range issue.

OR even if they let me use a 110v outlet and my portable charger, even at 8 amps, 4mph, i would easily gain 30 miles of range while at work.
BUT! It is a school and I can't be using government energy without permission, and good luck with that.......

I have even thought about asking some of the homeowners around the school if i could use a 110v plug at their house and pay for the electricity, but that kinda weird.

I am leaning towards buying the Spark, I have given back 2 other Sparks and I know I would miss having a Spark if I did not have one......

SO it is looking like we are going to be a Spark and a Volt family. (I already have a Volt)

Let me make your day - at least a little bit! Most of the Electrify America chargers in the Sacramento area are manufactured by BTCPower and they work just fine for a Spark EV. I have tried a number of them and have not had any charging failures. If the charger cabinet has a rounded top and no green interior paint, it probably is a BTCPower charger. To be sure, you can check the manufacturer's label on the side of the charger.

 

[SparkE]

EA chargers do not work for the Spark??!! This is not good news! WTH man!

Electrify America chargers manufactured by ABB "DO NOT" work for charging a Spark EV.

See this thread and read all about it : http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9026

PS: Thx doc, for all the effort you've put into trying to get that fixed!

 

[SparkE]

I understand the concepts of "range anxiety" and "go with what you know", but couldn't you easily only do 3 stops? Or aren't any of the DCFCs on the bay-side of the Altamont convenient for where you are headed?

There are obviously a slew in Livermore-Pleasanton for out-and-back stops, but couldn't a third (between 2 stops in Livermore) easily be one of :
- Lucky San Leandro (just before heading back up the pass) - 4 EVgo units off I-580 @ Fairmont
- Lafayette Sq (downtown OAK) - 4 EVgo units off I-880, 10th St
- Whole foods, 230 Bay PL (OAK, just N of L Merritt, near I-980&I-580) - 4 EVgo units

(Again, I don't know where in OAK you are headed, taking I-880 or I-580, or neither.)

PS:
- soon, an EA site in Castro Valley - 3 units
- soon, an EA site SE of L Merritt (4 units), 18th St
- soon, an EVgo site NE of L Merritt (6 units) , Lake Park Ave just off I-580
- EA just opened a 6-unit site on the Alameda

It is 40 miles from my home in Manteca to the EVgo stations (3) located at the San Francisco Premium Outlets in Livermore. This requires going over the Altamont Pass which really gobbles kWhs. My final destination is about 30 miles further over another pass to Castro Valley, up 580 to the Warren Fwy (13) and finally North on the Warren Freeway. Until recently, the EVgo chargers at SFPO were my only options going both ways. So far, none of the Electrify America chargers (ABB) at the SFPO work for a Spark EV.

Now I have working Electrify America (BTCPower) chargers at the Metro 580 location in Pleasanton and the 4 working EVgo chargers at the Lucky Market in San Leandro just off of Fairmont. The Electrify America chargers (BTCPower) at the Bank of America in Castro Valley should be open sometime after the first of the year.

I understand stopping in Livermore (El Charro exit, I presume, for redundancy) on both the way out and back. But You had said FOUR stops. It doesn't work to make just 3 stops (one near Oakland somewhere)? That's the point I was trying to make by listing working (as well as "soon to be active") sites along different routes around Oakland. It sounds like that is what you are doing, making sure that you can get back easily to Livermore by stopping in San Leandro. Anyhow, happy trails!

 

[SparkE]

SELL Sparky? NEVER!! I live in hope that businesses to rebuild HV batteries will spring up soon.

I had been thinking about 'gifting' my Spark to one of my kids (living in a metro area) in a few years when I eventually buy a 150-350 mile-range *used* EV. But now I am thinking that I'll just keep it for "suburban runs" until the range drops to below 40.

Concerning a replacement battery pack ...

There are businesses that "rebuild" gen-2 Prius battery packs (mainly replace the weakest cell or 3, then fully rebalance the pack). It costs approx $800-$1K (instead of $3-$5K for new pack) installed. There is a site in So San Francisco that buys crashed Priuses and uses their good cells to 'fix' packs, and sells the car carcasses to parts yards.

However :
- the Prius used NiMH batteries
- there are 10s of thousands of Priuses, and (maybe) 3000 total Spark EVs

But maybe, just maybe, some brave soul will do it and then post instructions and a video on the internet.

I am still looking forward to a 2.5-3.5x increase in density of Li-Ion cells, so that in 5-6 years I can build a replacement pack with 45-60 kWh. They are already about at 2x (and those are the latest cells shipping now). Maybe buy a wrecked 2024 Bolt or VW ID.4 and scavenge the pack ...

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I understand the concepts of "range anxiety" and "go with what you know", but couldn't you easily only do 3 stops? Or aren't any of the DCFCs on the bay-side of the Altamont convenient for where you are headed?

There are obviously a slew in Livermore-Pleasanton for out-and-back stops, but couldn't a third (between 2 stops in Livermore) easily be one of :
- Lucky San Leandro (just before heading back up the pass) - 4 EVgo units off I-580 @ Fairmont
- Lafayette Sq (downtown OAK) - 4 EVgo units off I-880, 10th St
- Whole foods, 230 Bay PL (OAK, just N of L Merritt, near I-980&I-580) - 4 EVgo units

(Again, I don't know where in OAK you are headed, taking I-880 or I-580, or neither.)

PS:
- soon, an EA site in Castro Valley - 3 units
- soon, an EA site SE of L Merritt (4 units), 18th St
- soon, an EVgo site NE of L Merritt (6 units) , Lake Park Ave just off I-580
- EA just opened a 6-unit site on the Alameda

It is 40 miles from my home in Manteca to the EVgo stations (3) located at the San Francisco Premium Outlets in Livermore. This requires going over the Altamont Pass which really gobbles kWhs. My final destination is about 30 miles further over another pass to Castro Valley, up 580 to the Warren Fwy (13) and finally North on the Warren Freeway. Until recently, the EVgo chargers at SFPO were my only options going both ways. So far, none of the Electrify America chargers (ABB) at the SFPO work for a Spark EV.

Now I have working Electrify America (BTCPower) chargers at the Metro 580 location in Pleasanton and the 4 working EVgo chargers at the Lucky Market in San Leandro just off of Fairmont. The Electrify America chargers (BTCPower) at the Bank of America in Castro Valley should be open sometime after the first of the year.

I understand stopping in Livermore (El Charro exit, I presume, for redundancy) on both the way out and back. But You had said FOUR stops. It doesn't work to make just 3 stops (one near Oakland somewhere)? That's the point I was trying to make by listing working (as well as "soon to be active") sites along different routes around Oakland. It sounds like that is what you are doing, making sure that you can get back easily to Livermore by stopping in San Leandro. Anyhow, happy trails!

Initially, I only stopped and charged to 90% at SFPO (El Charro exit) both going and returning. It is about 55 miles round trip from SFPO to my destination in Oakland and back to SFPO and the pass into and out of Castro Valley and the climb up the Warren Freeway (13) gobble kWhs. Normally, when I returned at night and if I also used the heater in the car, I would arrive at SFPO with about 20 - 25 miles of range left. That would make getting home a real challenge if I could not re-charge my battery.

SFPO in the mid-afternoon can present a real problem getting access to one of the 3 EVgo chargers. So I have now switched to Metro 580 both going and returning. I also have added two "top off" stops at the EVgo station in San Leandro; once going and once returning. So far, this has been working great and I can now use the car's heater as needed and drive a little faster than I was driving. That is, until I get back to Metro 580 or SFPO. I still have to be careful driving the last 45 mile leg to my home. But, there is an EVgo station at the Tracy Mall which is about 16 miles from my home. The EA station in Castro Valley at the B of A (BTCPower stations) will be a nice addition along my route. FYI: my current HV battery capacity is 14.8 kWh (27,962 miles) as measured using TorquePro and, on cold winter nights, I average about 4.5 to 5 mi/kWh for my roundtrip.

A Merry Christmas to all SPARK EV drivers!