Car died, "Initializing wait shift", started after 10 min.f

[GladstoneCoach]

Daughter 1 was driving her 2016 Spark EV to work this morning when the car died.
Immediately turned of and tried to re-start. Multiple attempts to re-start were unsuccessful.
"Initializing wait shift" message on panel
Started after 10 minutes

She'll run it to the dealer later this morning - I know there's been a few "suddenly died" issues on the forum, but anyone else experience this message or have any insight to its meaning?

 

[ncerna]

Lucky family.

 

[ncerna]

Since you own a few Sparks, perhaps you can provide some insight about performance issues.
Have you experienced any problems with the suspension or the brakes?
I am experiencing brake issues. The car seems to take forever to come to a complete stop.
I wonder if this is normal, or if this issue is only affecting certain cars.

 

[GladstoneCoach]

Since you own a few Sparks, perhaps you can provide some insight about performance issues.
Have you experienced any problems with the suspension or the brakes?
I am experiencing brake issues. The car seems to take forever to come to a complete stop.
I wonder if this is normal, or if this issue is only affecting certain cars.

We haven't had any issues with brakes or braking. Our Red 2015 had an intermittent issue with a high voltage cable early on that took the dealer a couple weeks to diagnose and fix (they flew some technician out from Michigan to look into it) and it also needed a new OnStar receiver module for OnStar to work properly. It's been fine since those were addressed - no other issues to speak of with any of the others until this morning.

Most everyone drives in L - but daughter 3 is a relatively new driver and loves to wait (too long IMHO) to brake. She mashes the pedal and it comes to a stop before we hit anything - so that's good. (Maybe it's the brakes, maybe it's me pushing the passenger side floor against the RF wheel - but it stops!)

 

[JPL]

Upload some pictures!
Better make a video!

 

[DenverShaw]

I am currently having the same issue as the original poster. 2014 Spark EV, "Initializing... Wait to Shift". Unfortunately, this thread was hijacked with miscellaneous stuff, and has no resolution mentioned. Any ideas? (please keep on original topic)

 

[GladstoneCoach]

Sorry - I don't have any final resolution regarding this issue. It only happened the one time and I didn't witness it first hand - it was my daughter in her vehicle.

She did have it into the dealer shortly thereafter for a seatbelt software update, but they couldn't find anything in the diagnostic report.

 

[DenverShaw]

After experiencing this issue, I took my Spark to the dealer where they performed a software update. I have no details on what the issue was, but it appears to have been resolved.

 

[VancitySparky]

I often get the "Initializing...wait to shift" message, followed by the service indicator light staying on. I find that if I turn off the car, open and close the door, wait several seconds, then open and close the door again, the car will start normally if I wait until the charge station picture has appeared before pressing the power button. It's really odd, but seems to be working to reset whatever's happened. No issues running it once it starts normally.

 

[ZipZap]

I ran into an issue with my 2014 1LT last night and it displayed this message. I drove the car fine in the morning, but when I went to use the car in the evening, it didn't respond to the remote. The only sign of any electrical activity was the orange passenger airbag light (in the cubby above the center screen) which was very dim (it is normal for this light to come on). So I poked around and found that the 12V battery was only measuring 5.5V. I used a jumper pack and was able to turn the car on (that message appeared on the gauge cluster display), but the battery voltage only read about 9V and the car turned off again when I removed the jumper pack. It seems like maybe the system that charges the low voltage battery from the high voltage one might have some issues.

I haven't had a chance to look at it anymore yet, but the plan is to charge the 12V battery using an external charger and drive it to the dealership.

 

[NORTON]

... but the plan is to charge the 12V battery using an external charger and drive it to the dealership.

You don't have to big deal this and spend a bunch of money.
What about just carrying the 12V into an auto parts store and have it tested the old fashioned way? It could be a 4 year old Lead Acid Battery after all......

Maybe,,, "It's dead, Jim."

 

[ZipZap]

Yeah, after looking around at some other threads, it seems the issue is probably just a dead 12V battery. I was concerned about the charging system for it, but it seems like that system is just kind of finicky (hence the not staying started) and I also remembered that my brake lights stay on sometimes when the car is parked (I think there might be a brake pedal sensor glitching there or some other issue I really should get looked at. Whole different can of worms. Safety third!). Anyways, I'll see if there's any life left in this battery first.

Did you get a chance to try your LiPo or non-AGM lead acid replacement yet?

"He's not dead yet!"

 

[ZipZap]

Yep, just a dead (well mostly dead) battery. I put about 35Ah back into it on my external charger, connected it back up, and the car came on and started dumping 45A (670W!!) back into the still somewhat discharged battery. I left the car on and watched it for a little bit and whatever portion of the charging algorithm was active was just trying to maintain a steady 14.6V on the battery terminals. I should probably to do a proper discharge test to see what kind of shape the battery is in, but it's at least somewhat functional now.

 

[SparkE]

Yep, just a dead (well mostly dead) battery. I put about 35Ah back into it on my external charger, connected it back up, and the car came on and started dumping 45A (670W!!) back into the still somewhat discharged battery. I left the car on and watched it for a little bit and whatever portion of the charging algorithm was active was just trying to maintain a steady 14.6V on the battery terminals. I should probably to do a proper discharge test to see what kind of shape the battery is in, but it's at least somewhat functional now.

EVs are known for killing 12V batteries (the logic to keep them 'full' just isn't quite right). The worst was the 2011-12 LEAF; some batteries didn't last 12 months.

A friend's LEAF *destroyed* a 12V flooded lead-acid. It was already bad (battery needed to be hooked to charger before turning it on if it had sat for more than a day or so, or it wouldn't turn on), but it poured the max charge into it every time the car was driven, and the battery was slightly oval-shaped when replaced due to frantic over-charging (after only two days of 'oops, I think I need a new 12V battery').

Ever since then, I hook my Spark up to an intelligent trickle-charger (0.8A) 2-3 times a month, overnight. That makes sure that the 12V battery is saturation-charged regularly, to help it live a long and fruitful life. I *should* check (and document) the resting voltage before each charge, but I'm too lazy.

 

[NORTON]

...Did you get a chance to try your LiPo or non-AGM lead acid replacement yet?

"He's not dead yet!"

Awesome shop ! What's with the big pack of 18650's? Are you into Ebikes?!

Anyway, you seem to have a clamp on ammeter to come up with your numbers.
Can you make a load out of headlights, or something, and do a Capacity Check on the bench?

An auto shop only does the old school 'Cranking Amps' test. I've had a bad battery pass that test but die quickly on a 'Cap Check'. Besides, these batteries never 'Crank'.

This is what that RC number on the battery data tag means:
Reserve Capacity (RC) is a very important rating. This is the number of minutes a fully charged battery at 80°F will discharge at 25 amps until the battery drops below 10.5 volts.
This number can be converted to an Ahr number, then you can run the test at whatever load you can come up with.

The way I understand it is, the APM takes the place of the alternator. It only supplies a bus voltage and the 12 V battery just floats on this bus when the car is powered up. The voltage may vary with temp.
You can see the current transformer on the 12V battery negative lead, so it must monitor current to and from the 12V battery. Not sure how that is used in the system.
Also I think I read that the APM provides an 'anti-sulfation' mode to help with the health of the 12V battery.

This battery only boots up the car, correct? Once the car is powered on, the 12V bus is powered by the APM.
The big size is for some fed spec for keeping the flashers and headlights on for X amount of time.

Mine is hanging in there. When it finally dies I will go for a different replacement.
Do you have a motorcycle battery sitting out the winter? I'd try that and monitor it.
Can you build a 18650 based 14 V battery pack that has a BMS that would run while the car is powered up? (I'd bring a back up...)

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Yep, just a dead (well mostly dead) battery. I put about 35Ah back into it on my external charger, connected it back up, and the car came on and started dumping 45A (670W!!) back into the still somewhat discharged battery. I left the car on and watched it for a little bit and whatever portion of the charging algorithm was active was just trying to maintain a steady 14.6V on the battery terminals. I should probably to do a proper discharge test to see what kind of shape the battery is in, but it's at least somewhat functional now.

While I have not had any 12 volt battery problems with my 2014, 2015, or 2016 Spark EVs, after reading some of the 12 volt battery problems Spark EV drivers were having, I did replace the 12 volt battery in my 2014 just as a precaution.

This morning I measured the 12 volt battery voltage for each car - none of which had been powered up since yesterday. Here are the readings: 2014 - 12.6 volts, 2015 - 12.7 volts, 2016 - 12.6 volts All readings were rounded up / or down to 1 decimal place.

 

[ZipZap]

When I saw the "over range" indicator on the clamp meter on the 40A scale, I rethought how close I was to the battery.

I haven't been working on any e-bikes, but I have an backup electric propulsion system for a sailboat using a couple of old Nissan Leaf cells. So the charger in that picture (an iCharger 206B) is meant for RC LiPo batteries, but works on the Leaf cells and it also has a lead acid mode and can do a constant current discharge test. There's even a usb port on it, so you can get a full discharge curve. It just takes a bit of time to do it.

An 18650 replacement would be pretty cool, but yeah, that BMS is the issue. I am sort of actively working on a supercapacitor/solar panel system to replace the battery in my dino-burner, but that's a lot simpler than managing LiPos. It turns out EV's are also good at killing the 12V batteries in infrequently used dino-burners too.