Cold Weather Range

[EldRitch]

I've been reading comments on the Bolt forums that the dominant NW provider, Chargepoint, has mainly 25KW stations. I can't testify, as I'm not about to plan a road-trip in the Spark.

 

[colordosparkev]

-10F this morning in Colorado foothills- GOM at 60 miles full car outside in the snow. My full service onstar subscription that came with the car expired a few days ago, so don't have all the other info. The precondition still works in the app, so i still do that. But on a L1 trickle- still use up battery capacity with heat on full...

 

[SparkE]

I've been reading comments on the Bolt forums that the dominant NW provider, Chargepoint, has mainly 25KW stations. I can't testify, as I'm not about to plan a road-trip in the Spark.

ChargePoint (CP) is more a NETWORK of charging stations than a provider (they sell and install stations, and (if requested) will add any station into their network that they can monitor using their cell-phone-based technology). I have seen stations NOT sold or installed by ChargePoint (CP) listed in their network.

Based on my experience, I would say that by far the largest % of CP charging stations are 6.6kW, not the 24 kW Express100. When limiting discussion to just the DCFCs, there are a lot of 24 kW chargers in the CP network (whether sold/installed by ChargePoint or Bosch or BMW) - they are considerably less expensive. But there are quite a few Express200 (actually Tritium's Veefil) 50 kW DCFC in my neck of the woods (SF Bay Area).

But "there are more 24 kW ChargePoint DCFCs installed than their 50 kW DCFCs" is very, VERY different than saying "most CCS chargers today are only 25KW".

 

[didget69]

15 degrees this morning, GOM at 76 miles of range. Car parked in driveway since Friday afternoon, covered in sleet & snow... Low Temp tonight forecast to be ~3-4 degrees. High today of 30 degrees. L1 charging.

Bryan

 

[97slpss]

Hi,
It’s in the 10s and 20s here in Canada and my Spark 2014 is only getting 65km or 40 miles.
Does that seem right? I think it’s a bit low.
Ev is out in the cold plugged in to 240 and pre heated before leaving.
But it was in the garage at about 10 degrees Celsius for 3 days, pulled it out today and it had the same range, 65km.

 

[SparkE]

Hi,
It’s in the 10s and 20s here in Canada and my Spark 2014 is only getting 65km or 40 miles.
Does that seem right? I think it’s a bit low.
Ev is out in the cold plugged in to 240 and pre heated before leaving.
But it was in the garage at about 10 degrees Celsius for 3 days, pulled it out today and it had the same range, 65km.

That does seem a bit low. (You *do* mean 10-20C, right? At 10-20F, that range isn't that low - although it is still low.)

I would guess that it's a factor of how much you use the heater. Try keeping the heater turned off all the time and see if the mileage estimate changes.

 

[NORTON]

... my Spark 2014 is only getting 65km or 40 miles.
.... I think it’s a bit low.
...But it was in the garage at about 10 degrees Celsius for 3 days, pulled it out today and it had the same range, 65km.

That does seem a bit low. ..
.... Try keeping the heater turned off all the time and see if the mileage estimate changes.

Yes, winter sucks.

I have driven in -5°F, windy, cruising at 77 mph with all my pals in the left lane and my GOM has displayed numbers in the high 40s.
AFAIK, the GOM doesn't care what conditions the car was parked in. It cares how the kWh/mile drives have been the last few trips.

Warm Weather people: You can't 'turn off the heat all the time'. 2 reasons: 1- The windows fog up in few minutes/moments. 2- You'll die. :lol:

Now if you are experiencing range anxiety in these conditions, the most you can do is turn down the Defrost to the lowest temp and fan speed that gets the job done.
If that doesn't work, then the Spark EV is the wrong car for those conditions.
If you are not having range issues, Who Cares? Electrons are still the least expensive and easiest way to go! (Remember holding that ice cold gas nozzle in the wind?)

(I drive with a Garmin nuvi and compare "distance to destination" and the GOM on questionable drives.
On long 'Airport Runs' I have slowed down and turned the heat down and then see those numbers become more separated.)

Hang in there. Spring is only many months away !!

 

[CCIE]

A few weeks ago it was 10-20F around here for an extended period. My GOM was showing ranges in the low 70s. I have a 60 mile round trip commute, and always got home with at least 2 bars remaining. But, I don't use heat and the average speed of my commute is probably 45mph, due to traffic.

It is possible to get by without using any heat/defrost. Preheat the car for 20 minutes before leaving, use the seat heater, and occasionally crack both passenger side windows to clear fog as needed. Oh, and wear a good coat/gloves!

 

[NORTON]

A few weeks ago it was 10-20F around here....
It is possible to get by without using any heat/defrost. .... and occasionally crack both passenger side windows to clear fog as needed. ......

You, Sir, are a Tough Guy and truly suffer for your range!!

I'm pretty sure the fog that develops on the inside of windows would just freeze to frost in the -5° to 15°F temp range...

If you could charge at work you wouldn't have to suffer so, correct?

I personally couldn't do it to save a 'Buck-and-a-Half'....

 

[PhilPen]

A few weeks ago it was 10-20F around here for an extended period. My GOM was showing ranges in the low 70s. I have a 60 mile round trip commute, and always got home with at least 2 bars remaining. But, I don't use heat and the average speed of my commute is probably 45mph, due to traffic.

It is possible to get by without using any heat/defrost. Preheat the car for 20 minutes before leaving, use the seat heater, and occasionally crack both passenger side windows to clear fog as needed. Oh, and wear a good coat/gloves!

I was doing the same thing (no heat no defog, I applied the rain-x defog stuff to the glass to help) my commute is 72 miles these days the yellow bars were flashing on one or two occasions during that cold spell.

 

[CCIE]

A few weeks ago it was 10-20F around here....
It is possible to get by without using any heat/defrost. .... and occasionally crack both passenger side windows to clear fog as needed. ......

You, Sir, are a Tough Guy and truly suffer for your range!!

I'm pretty sure the fog that develops on the inside of windows would just freeze to frost in the -5° to 15°F temp range...

If you could charge at work you wouldn't have to suffer so, correct?

I personally couldn't do it to save a 'Buck-and-a-Half'....

I don’t do it to save money. I just don’t have enough range to use heat when it’s super cold. No charging at work unfortunately.

We had some days close to 0F in the morning. Preheating cleared the windows before I left, and cracking the windows briefly takes care of any fog that develops before it can freeze.

 

[97slpss]

Hi,
It’s in the 10s and 20s here in Canada and my Spark 2014 is only getting 65km or 40 miles.
Does that seem right? I think it’s a bit low.
Ev is out in the cold plugged in to 240 and pre heated before leaving.
But it was in the garage at about 10 degrees Celsius for 3 days, pulled it out today and it had the same range, 65km.

That does seem a bit low. (You *do* mean 10-20C, right? At 10-20F, that range isn't that low - although it is still low.)

I would guess that it's a factor of how much you use the heater. Try keeping the heater turned off all the time and see if the mileage estimate changes.

I am now down to an average of 57km (35 miles) and holding steady for a week now. It's a little too cold for no heat and I have a short commute. I was hoping for 60-80km in the winter
i get an average of 120km/150 max (74 miles/93 max) summer. Sucks i can't use it on the winter weekends (80km one way) to the cottage without a supercharge, which is now not an option cause it won't make it to the supercharge station!
Don't get me wrong i love this car, it's a little rocket and handles great in dry, but a little disappointed with snow driving capability and range. Slippery conditions = D not L and traction control off, very slow around corner cause it pushes and double pump brakes to get regen off otherwise the ABS comes on and I can't stop.

Hey, a guy gave me **** the other day because I left Sparky plugged into a DC charger past 80% for 7 min. ( I was in the car, fiddling with the phone and onstar) It charged to 90%. He said I should have switched to the 240 charger cause the charge slows down after 80%, no benefit to DC after 80%. I am aware it slows, but at -20c I'm not getting out to do that. Besides, isn't it a gradual drop?

 

[SparkE]

Hey, a guy gave me **** the other day because I left Sparky plugged into a DC charger past 80% for 7 min. ( I was in the car, fiddling with the phone and onstar) It charged to 90%. He said I should have switched to the 240 charger cause the charge slows down after 80%, no benefit to DC after 80%. I am aware it slows, but at -20c I'm not getting out to do that. Besides, isn't it a gradual drop?

Yes, it is a (somewhat) gradual drop - and the DCFC should be showing the charge rate in some manner. Around 80% a 50 kW DCFC should start lowering, and at 90% it would be around 20kW (in my experience, not counting for weather conditions - i.e., extreme heat or cold). At what percentage *exactly* depends also on how long you've been charging (if you started at 5%, the battery will be a lot warmer than if you started at 35% - and the kW rate will drop earlier). Also, remember that the Spark EV gets a max charging rate (via on-board charger) of 3.3kW - so the DCFC is still charging faster even after you pass 90%. (Some vehicles 240V charge at 6.6 or 7.2 kW - or higher - not the Spark.) Note that you might be damaging your batteries if you routinely charge them over 80% on a DCFC (*heat* while charging is bad for Li-Ion batteries) - an occasional charge to 90% shouldn't be horrid (but I still avoid going over 80% during a fast charge).

One thing you might want to consider if you are paying for the DCFC charge by the minute (instead of by the kWh) is that if you plug in to a 240V, level-2 charging station FIRST, it will start up the battery TMS (Thermal Management System) - either cooling or heating your battery pack. So, 15-25 minutes on a 240V unit could allow your vehicle to start charging at a much faster rate on a DCFC. I have seen (videos of) people in extreme cold (colder than -15C) get less than 10 kW from a 50 kW charger because of the cold.

 

[97slpss]

Hey, a guy gave me **** the other day because I left Sparky plugged into a DC charger past 80% for 7 min. ( I was in the car, fiddling with the phone and onstar) It charged to 90%. He said I should have switched to the 240 charger cause the charge slows down after 80%, no benefit to DC after 80%. I am aware it slows, but at -20c I'm not getting out to do that. Besides, isn't it a gradual drop?

Yes, it is a (somewhat) gradual drop - and the DCFC should be showing the charge rate in some manner. Around 80% a 50 kW DCFC should start lowering, and at 90% it would be around 20kW (in my experience, not counting for weather conditions - i.e., extreme heat or cold). At what percentage *exactly* depends also on how long you've been charging (if you started at 5%, the battery will be a lot warmer than if you started at 35% - and the kW rate will drop earlier). Also, remember that the Spark EV gets a max charging rate (via on-board charger) of 3.3kW - so the DCFC is still charging faster even after you pass 90%. (Some vehicles 240V charge at 6.6 or 7.2 kW - or higher - not the Spark.) Note that you might be damaging your batteries if you routinely charge them over 80% on a DCFC (*heat* while charging is bad for Li-Ion batteries) - an occasional charge to 90% shouldn't be horrid (but I still avoid going over 80% during a fast charge).

One thing you might want to consider if you are paying for the DCFC charge by the minute (instead of by the kWh) is that if you plug in to a 240V, level-2 charging station FIRST, it will start up the battery TMS (Thermal Management System) - either cooling or heating your battery pack. So, 15-25 minutes on a 240V unit could allow your vehicle to start charging at a much faster rate on a DCFC. I have seen (videos of) people in extreme cold (colder than -15C) get less than 10 kW from a 50 kW charger because of the cold.

Thank you, I will watch closer to see what’s taking place.
I only fast charge maybe once every 2 month. But this weekend I need to use Sparky for a 200km round trip. It will take 3 fast charges, 2 charges going due to a drop off and one on the return trip. Any strategies I should employ for this trip? It will be in the -14c range this weekend.

Thanks

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

He said I should have switched to the 240 charger cause the charge slows down after 80%

Was he driving a Leaf? I've seen some Leaf slow down to 6 kW even at 85%. Since they tend to have 6.6kW L2, switching to L2 would be no different.

As others have mentioned, SparkEV charges far higher power as well as only having 3.3kW L2. Even at 99%, SparkEV at DCFC was close to 9kW, far more than L2. Of course, that's in CA where recent temperatures in late January have been 85F (about 30C).

 

[97slpss]

He said I should have switched to the 240 charger cause the charge slows down after 80%

Was he driving a Leaf? I've seen some Leaf slow down to 6 kW even at 85%. Since they tend to have 6.6kW L2, switching to L2 would be no different.

As others have mentioned, SparkEV charges far higher power as well as only having 3.3kW L2. Even at 99%, SparkEV at DCFC was close to 9kW, far more than L2. Of course, that's in CA where recent temperatures in late January have been 85F (about 30C).

It was a Kia Soul.

 

[SparkE]

Well, now you know what to say ...

you: "My car was charging a lot faster than it would on a level-2 charger"

other: blah, blah, BS, doesn't believe you

you: "this car charges at 3 kW on level-2. On DCFC it charges over 20 kW from 80-90%, and over 9 kW all the way up to 95% full."

 

[GuyClark]

Hi, Everybody!

In my one year's experience with my 2015 Spark EV, I've been using one of two DCFC chargers in my area when needed, either to get up the hill to my house, or after going up the hill from San Jose, on my way to Santa Cruz (where I frequently play trumpet with the symphony there).

In the case of the first charger, the 50KW unit at ChargePoint HQ, I've frequently charged up to 100% (frequently, meaning on the order of once per month on average). I've watched the numbers both on the ChargePoint app on my phone, and on the unit itself, and seen that at 80% full, the charge rate starts to ramp down to on the order of 20KW by the time I get up to around 95% full. It doesn't drop below that rate until it determines I'm fully charged and stops altogether.

In the case of the other charger, one of the two EVGo units at the restaurant at the summit of HWY17, it does approximately the same thing according to the big display on the charger: Starts at 99 to 100A, and stays there until 80% after which it slowly ramps down to about 20A right up to 100%.

Both of these post-80% charge rates are far above the Level II rates, and therefore are worth taking advantage, as long as there's no one waiting to use the charger. Since I'm usually at ChargePoint after 10pm, that's not usually not a problem. There are two chargers at the summit restaurant, and only twice have I encountered anyone else charging when I got there. (I have to use it after work on my way to orchestra rehearsal, around 4:00pm).

The one odd thing I notice, after charging to 100% is that the Battery Information screen doesn't reset as it does after a level 2 charge completion. Is that normal??

Hope this helps!

Guy Clark
Los Gatos, CA

 

[97slpss]

Hi, Everybody!

In my one year's experience with my 2015 Spark EV, I've been using one of two DCFC chargers in my area when needed, either to get up the hill to my house, or after going up the hill from San Jose, on my way to Santa Cruz (where I frequently play trumpet with the symphony there).

In the case of the first charger, the 50KW unit at ChargePoint HQ, I've frequently charged up to 100% (frequently, meaning on the order of once per month on average). I've watched the numbers both on the ChargePoint app on my phone, and on the unit itself, and seen that at 80% full, the charge rate starts to ramp down to on the order of 20KW by the time I get up to around 95% full. It doesn't drop below that rate until it determines I'm fully charged and stops altogether.

In the case of the other charger, one of the two EVGo units at the restaurant at the summit of HWY17, it does approximately the same thing according to the big display on the charger: Starts at 99 to 100A, and stays there until 80% after which it slowly ramps down to about 20A right up to 100%.

Both of these post-80% charge rates are far above the Level II rates, and therefore are worth taking advantage, as long as there's no one waiting to use the charger. Since I'm usually at ChargePoint after 10pm, that's not usually not a problem. There are two chargers at the summit restaurant, and only twice have I encountered anyone else charging when I got there. (I have to use it after work on my way to orchestra rehearsal, around 4:00pm).

The one odd thing I notice, after charging to 100% is that the Battery Information screen doesn't reset as it does after a level 2 charge completion. Is that normal??

Hope this helps!

Guy Clark
Los Gatos, CA

Awesome, thanks!

 

[97slpss]

Update: After my 200km=124mile drive this weekend at -15c = 5F. Return route shorter than arrival route due to drop off in Sauveur.
I left the house with full charge of 57km average (35miles).
I planned on 2 DC charges along my 100Km = 60mile route up north. Driving at 95km = 58mph on cruise control and heat at 20c (68F) on a slow steady climb up from the city to the Laurentians. As i approached my first Charge point I could see that I would have enough juice to (just) get to the second charge point (400v@200a) at 64km=39miles, so we continued and arrived at the second charge point with 5km=3miles left and cold feet(we started with 57km average that turned into 69km total(42miles)). Had a bite to eat at A&W and the car was at 80% in 20min. No problem for the remaining drive of 34km, we arrived with 20km left. Charged Sparky with the 110 plug at the cottage for the return trip home. -25c (-13F)over night. Next morning Sparky again had 57km at full charge (preheated while plugged in). its 80km=49miles from cottage to home, the first 13km=8 miles from the cottage is down hill and always cancels itself out with regen, but this time after the first 13km i had 62km=38miles after reaching the bottom of the hill, Nice! now I am looking at a drive of 67km with my average at 62km, I'm starting to think I might make it home! By the time I hit the charge point I had picked, It was clear I would make it home. Driving with heat at 20c, fan at setting 2 and 90km(55mph) driving speed on cruise (also slightly down hill grade from the Laurentians to Montreal), I arrived home with 13km left. Sparky did good for the 57km (35miles) average turned into 93km total (58miles) on return. Average 16.9kwh for the trip. With just city driving (14km return for work, no HWY) at -20c the average was upwards of 27kwh.
Today Sparky has an average of 77km.