Easiest Least Painful Way To Do It

[cwerdna]

I tend to agree...this whole doomsday scenario some people paint here about quick charging not being available for a long time doesn't make sense unless you consider that EV's are just novelties bound to never take off. That could be...but I would think most of us would like to think not.

We didn't say that. There already is quick charging, just almost none of it in J1772 CCS format.

Please look at the facts again about the J1772 CCS players and look at the Spark EV sales numbers (vs. say the Leaf) in the charts bottom of these pages:
http://insideevs.com/december-2013-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
http://insideevs.com/january-2014-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

 

[nozferatu]

I tend to agree...this whole doomsday scenario some people paint here about quick charging not being available for a long time doesn't make sense unless you consider that EV's are just novelties bound to never take off. That could be...but I would think most of us would like to think not.

We didn't say that. There already is quick charging, just almost none of it in J1772 CCS format.

Please look at the facts again about the J1772 CCS players and look at the Spark EV sales numbers (vs. say the Leaf) in the charts bottom of these pages:
http://insideevs.com/december-2013-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
http://insideevs.com/january-2014-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

Yes you kind of did say that....and if none of it is in J1772 format or whatever that is, then what use is that to us again? I feel like I'm repeating the questions but not getting clear and straight answers.

Perhaps you..or anyone really...can start off by making a sticky going over all names and acronyms and describing what they are...after all this is a forum for people to understand and learn as well is it not?

 

[cwerdna]

Yes you kind of did say that....and if none of it is in J1772 format or whatever that is, then what use is that to us again? I feel like I'm repeating the questions but not getting clear and straight answers.

That's exactly my point. It's of NO USE to you... err J1772 CCS cars, if it's an incompatible format!

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012 has better pictures. Spark EV and i3 can have J1772 CCS (it's optional on both). See COMBO1 picture.

See my other post at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5540#p5540 about the formats and compatible vehicles and numbers.

 

[nozferatu]

Yes you kind of did say that....and if none of it is in J1772 format or whatever that is, then what use is that to us again? I feel like I'm repeating the questions but not getting clear and straight answers.

That's exactly my point. It's of NO USE to you... err J1772 CCS cars, if it's an incompatible format!

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012 has better pictures. Spark EV and i3 can have J1772 CCS (it's optional on both). See COMBO1 picture.

See my other post at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5540#p5540 about the formats and compatible vehicles and numbers.

Yes but you also said in another post that a host of manufacturers are agreeing to use the J1772 format. So which way is it going to go? And what's preventing manufacturers from creating adapters in the future to allow one standard to be plugged into another?

 

[cwerdna]

Yes but you also said in another post that a host of manufacturers are agreeing to use the J1772 format. So which way is it going to go? And what's preventing manufacturers from creating adapters in the future to allow one standard to be plugged into another?

Let's be clear. For L1 and L2 AC charging, every EV/PHEV maker selling in the US has standardized and uses J1772, except Tesla. But, Tesla gives you a free adapter w/their Model S.

The disconnect/incompatibility is with DC fast charging. As for those other automakers (Frankenplug backers), did you read their status? Renault stopped selling in the US ages ago.

As for adapters, I doubt Tesla will let anyone access their free Superchargers w/o paying $2K+ per vehicle. They charge $2K to let their own 60 kWh Model S have access. They certainly aren't giving out the specs. I'm sure they'd want a licensing fee for that.

As for CHAdeMO <--> J1772 CCS adapters, ok. Who's going them make them and why? What's the business case? Remember that producing tiny quantities is VERY expensive due to R&D, testing, qualification, certification, tooling, etc. All that needs to be amortized out over many units to avoid losing $/have a chance of making a profit.

If you have a J1772 CCS car or are planning on one and find the its infrastructure lacking (and need/would really like it), then you should sell the car/not buy it. Or, you could lobby the Frankenplug backers to adopt one of the other two standards or to get them to make adapters. You could lobby equipment makers in this space for adapters, as well. Names that come to mind would be companies that make EVSEs or DC FC stations (e.g. Aerovironment, ABB, Nissan/Sumitomo, etc.) or connectors (e.g. Yazaki).

Knock yourself out w/that... In the meanwhile, there are vehicles available w/more widely deployed DC FC infrastructure.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... but you also said in another post that a host of manufacturers are agreeing to use the J1772 format. So which way is it going to go? And what's preventing manufacturers from creating adapters in the future to allow one standard to be plugged into another?

USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "L3"

1. SAE CCS "Frankenplug" or "J1772 DC" - approximately 5 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with Frankenplug include:

*GM Spark EV - less than 100 with Frankenplug capability
*BMW i3 (coming 2014)
*VW eGolf (coming 2014)


2. CHAdeMO - 3500 worldwide, 550 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 45,000 in the USA and over 100,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2014)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2015)
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV (coming 2014)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla except Roadster with adaptor


3. Supercharger - 73 stations in the USA, each with 4-8 stalls
up to 150kW eventually, currently limited to 120kW
EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only except Roadster

 

[nozferatu]

... but you also said in another post that a host of manufacturers are agreeing to use the J1772 format. So which way is it going to go? And what's preventing manufacturers from creating adapters in the future to allow one standard to be plugged into another?

USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "L3"

1. SAE CCS "Frankenplug" or "J1772 DC" - approximately 5 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with Frankenplug include:

*GM Spark EV - less than 100 with Frankenplug capability
*BMW i3 (coming 2014)
*VW eGolf (coming 2014)


2. CHAdeMO - 3500 worldwide, 550 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 45,000 in the USA and over 100,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2014)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2015)
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV (coming 2014)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla except Roadster with adaptor


3. Supercharger - 73 stations in the USA, each with 4-8 stalls
up to 150kW eventually, currently limited to 120kW
EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only except Roadster

Most excellent...this should be a sticky all by itself.

 

[fengshui]

... but you also said in another post that a host of manufacturers are agreeing to use the J1772 format. So which way is it going to go? And what's preventing manufacturers from creating adapters in the future to allow one standard to be plugged into another?

USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "L3"

1. SAE CCS "Frankenplug" or "J1772 DC" - approximately 5 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with Frankenplug include:

*GM Spark EV - less than 100 with Frankenplug capability
*BMW i3 (coming 2014)
*VW eGolf (coming 2014)


2. CHAdeMO - 3500 worldwide, 550 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 45,000 in the USA and over 100,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2014)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2015)
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV (coming 2014)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla except Roadster with adaptor


3. Supercharger - 73 stations in the USA, each with 4-8 stalls
up to 150kW eventually, currently limited to 120kW
EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only except Roadster

Most excellent...this should be a sticky all by itself.

It's a useful chart, but were we to make it sticky, I'd want make it as neutral as possible. Tony, if you're interested in making some small edits for consistency, let me know, and I'll see if we can sticky it as a new thread.

 

[Nashco]

No need to try and filter out Tony's bologna. This is a great source of specifics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station

The world of charging stations is evolving constantly, which is where a wiki link makes great sense, as it is updated over time as the information evolves. If a "sticky" was created here with info, it wouldn't get the kind of maintenance necessary for such a complex topic or a broad viewpoint for input.

If you don't like that wiki link, provide one that you prefer, or better yet, update the wiki to include the information/table/data you believe it is missing!

Bryce

 

[TonyWilliams]

It's a useful chart, but were we to make it sticky, I'd want make it as neutral as possible. Tony, if you're interested in making some small edits for consistency, let me know, and I'll see if we can sticky it as a new thread.

Just take the data and make your post, then you can update it at will.

 

[cwerdna]

USA Quick Charge data, sometimes colloquially referred to as "L3"

1. SAE CCS "Frankenplug" or "J1772 DC" - approximately 5 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, probably limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with Frankenplug include:

*GM Spark EV - less than 100 with Frankenplug capability
*BMW i3 (coming 2014)
*VW eGolf (coming 2014)

And to add to this data, as I've tried to point out others. One can try to make projections, even optimistic ones about how many of the above BMW and VW would sell in the US.

Nissan sold 22,610 Leafs in the US in 2013, or ~2% of Nissan division total of 1,131,965 vehicles sold in the US.

BMW branded vehicles sales in the US 309,280 vehicles. If we assume, somehow 3% of their sales are i3 (since they're pretty serious about EVs), that'd mean 12,371 i3s. I don't think 3% is very likely due to its high price and insane lease quotes I've seen so far. And http://insideevs.com/bmw-ceo-us-i3-sales-to-be-a-couple-thousand-in-2014/, BMW said they'd expect to sell a "couple thousand" in the US in 2014.

VW sold 407,704 vehicles in the US in 2013. If we assume 2% of those will be eGolfs (seems very unlikely as they don't at all seem serious about BEVs) --> 8,154 eGolfs. Heck, they only sold 16K of their ICE Golfs last year in the US (vs. 163K Jettas and 109K Passats). I don't know their rollout plans but http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/vehicles-on-display/2015/volkswagen/2015-egolf-electric/ says "Not due to go on sale in select states in the fourth quarter of 2014." I wouldn't be surprised if they don't move more than 200 units/month (if even that), making for an annual total of 2,400.

Supporting URLs:
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/2d040d06-cdd7-4b5d-a4b7-d23cfdd91e0c
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bmw-group-us-reports-december-and-2013-sales-238625731.html
http://media.vw.com/release/592/

2. CHAdeMO - 3500 worldwide, 550 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 45,000 in the USA and over 100,000 worldwide

3. Supercharger - 73 stations in the USA, each with 4-8 stalls
up to 150kW eventually, currently limited to 120kW
EVs compatible with Supercharger include:

*Tesla only except Roadster

And, there are somewhere over 25K units of Model S worldwide.

 

[cwerdna]

2. CHAdeMO - 3500 worldwide, 550 in the USA
up to 100kW eventually, currently limited to 62.5kW
EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 45,000 in the USA and over 100,000 worldwide
*Nissan e-NV200 (coming 2014)
*Citroen C-Zero - not sold in USA
*Mitsubishi i-MiEV - over 30,000 worldwide with its variants C-Zero & iON
*Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (coming 2015)
*Peugeot iON - not sold in USA
*Kia Soul EV (coming 2014)
*ZERO motorcycles
*Tesla except Roadster with adaptor

Re: the Kia Soul EV, official announcement was today: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/06/2015-kia-soul-ev-chicago-2014/.

27kWh lithium polymer battery
...
Two charging ports are standard, including a SAE J1772 port for Level 1 and Level 2 AC, and a CHAdeMo DC fast-charging port (480v).
...
Standard Soul EV amenities include navigation, Rear Camera Display , Bluetooth® hands free operation, power windows, power driver's seat, cruise control, 6.6kW on-board charger and an exclusive HVAC system designed to extend driving range by minimizing energy draw.