Fake noise maker

[Zoomit]

It's fuse #23 as depicted on the map on the panel cover and also in the manual.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

I have 2015, and maybe it's different? There are no numbers on fuse panel, but some labels. 7.5A are labeled as RPA, PFAF, OSRVM. I pulled out one at a time, but there was still noise when in R, D, L. There are 2A fuses, DLIS and SWC BKLT, but neither kills the noise maker. So the question still is, which fuse?

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

This link says

The Spark EV also features a Pedestrian Friendly Alert Function (PFAF) to alert those nearby of the vehicle’s presence. To activate a friendly horn, pull the turn signal lever toward you like you are flashing the headlights. The alert will only work in Drive.

The PFAF also can be set to activate automatically. It is active in Drive and Reverse at speeds below 18 mph (28 km/h). The sound is intended to be barely audible in the cabin.

Yet, I still wear "whoosh" after I pull out this fuse. Will try again later in the day.

 

[Zoomit]

I also have a 2015 (see sig). Per the 2015 manual (page 10-26), the Pedestrian Safety Signal is #23. The map is also shown on that page. The map is also replicated on the interior side of the fuse panel cover. Page 10-26 is page 263 in this pdf: https://www.chevrolet.com/content/d...Videos/02_pdf/2015-spark-ev-owners-manual.pdf

Interestingly, the 2014 manual has #23 list as the "Pedestrian Friendly Alert" so it appears they renamed it for '15. The descriptions of both systems are similar between the '14 and '15 manuals (Page 5-3). I'd expect pulling #23 fuse to work the same in either model year. https://www.chevrolet.com/content/d...ip/Manuals and Videos/02_pdf/2k14spark_ev.pdf

For safe keeping, you can put the removed fuse in slot #5 or #6 that are "Not Used". The pedestrian horn alert, which is activated by pulling the headlight stalk, remains operational.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Brilliant! It worked! It seems the car still makes small bit of noise (pump?), and I thought that was from the noise maker. But that's far less audible and now the car is almost silent. Leaf is quieter still, I suspect due to non-existent battery cooling on them.

 

[lalacurf121]

What they're offering, it's great too.
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[NORTON]

I guess it's great if you sit with your windows open right next to a wall to reflect the sound back to you.
And of course never have the audio system playing.

THEN, you can hear the difference.

Conversely, when I'm rolling out of my quite neighborhood early in the morning or evening, I pass walkers, and their dogs. (and poor decision making squirrels. What's wrong with them?)
I like the idea of my car having some sound to it for "Safety" reasons.
That is the name of the system you just defeated in your car, you know?

Do you really hear this sound in normal usage? And it's annoying? What if there is ever a pedestrian 'incident' and they find out you defeated a safety system?

 

[Zoomit]

I can hear it every time I drive. I didn't realize the sound was fake went I first started driving the car, but it's very easy to pick out inside the car when stopped with the radio off. I credit the noise as saving my garage door/car nose as I almost let off the brake once when it was in D in front of the garage. I thought the car was in P but I heard the noise and checked the gear selector.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Do you really hear this sound in normal usage? And it's annoying?

Yes, this sound is damn annoying. 3dB is HUGE at such low volume. Especially bothersome is with audio books or quiet classical music passages during extended waiting at stop light.

There's no sound with my ancient Prius. Supposed EV that doesn't have gas engine that sounds like "jet engine" compared to a hybrid is ridiculous. This "safety feature" is garbage. How many incidents have there been involving stationary Prius and pedestrians? This is a non-issue made into an issue by some anti-EV bureaucrat with nothing better to do.

 

[Zoomit]

This is a non-issue made into an issue by some anti-EV bureaucrat with nothing better to do.

Or more specifically, the GM legal department. I welcome it as a feature, but wish it was user configurable or it could be turned off from the setup menu.

 

[NORTON]

... 3dB is HUGE at such low volume. ...

Ok, you can't trust an iphone app. And a dust bunny filled mic opening on a crappy smartphone.
I have access to a calibrated SPL meter. I know a thing or two about 'sound' and engineering.
I doubt it is 3db at the drives ears. It might be @ 1 meter in front of the car, and that is for a reason. Safety.

If you even think you are saving kWh's, I can tell you how to save more. Skip breakfast.
If you really want HUGE savings in your kWh's, drop of 15 L Bee's, ya'tub. We could all benefit from that. The HUGE car energy savings and the health of it !!

 

[Zoomit]

If you really want HUGE savings in your kWh's, drop of 15 L Bee's, ya'tub. We could all benefit from that. The HUGE car energy savings and the health of it !!

We're off topic, but I need to add that my experience is counter to your claim. I had a ~250 lb carpool buddy for awhile in my Spark EV and the range didn't take a noticeable hit. I'm sure there was a decrement, but it was lost in all the other factors (weather, speed, traffic) that vary from day to day.

 

[NORTON]

We're off topic, .....

And once again the lack of a 'Sarcasm Font' has let me down,, Sorry. I just thought it was funny that one or two posters used 'Power usage and weight' as a reason to disable a safety feature.
One that I personally have only heard a few times, (windows down, no audio playing and next to a sound reflective surface).

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

for a reason. Safety.

So what you're saying is that Prius that doesn't have fake noise maker is much safer, yet SparkEV is dangerous without it? What kind of magical thinking is this? Yeah, I heard about that rash of serious injuries to pedestrians slamming into stopped Priuses (Prii?) /Sarc

Ok, you can't trust an iphone app.

I used calibrated sound meter on tripod at my ear level to make the measurements. The numbers I gave on first post of this thread are dBA that shows baseline to show that they're not anechoic chamber, but still pretty quiet and "non-echoey" except ground. Although running autocorrelation would've been better, open space environment was deemed good enough.

What makes you think I used an iphone app, or that I even have an iphone? As an old cheapskate, I use dirt cheap pre-paid phone and pay $6.33/mo for phone service. Frankly, I look at what people use their smart phones for (ie, games), and I just shake my head. We're turning to money wasting zombies!

And a dust bunny filled mic opening on a crappy smartphone.

For Spectrally inband signal through linear time invariant system (ie, dust bunny), dB makes no difference. If you doubt this, run the signals through "dust bunny" or some suitable filter and see for yourself. Unless there's saturation, it makes no difference, and there wasn't saturation as you can see from the numbers. Actually, you don't even need to run any experiment; it's simple math.

I know a thing or two about 'sound' and engineering.

That's laughable when you don't even know what dB means or why dust bunny would result in LTI transfer function and its consequences from the numbers given.

If you even think you are saving kWh's

Fake noise maker is very low power, probably in the order of few watts. Anyone who thinks fake noise maker consumes any appreciable power obviously has never seen ad for car stereo; even 10 W (0.010 kW) radio is louder than fake noise maker.

If you really want HUGE savings in your kWh's, drop of 15 L Bee's, ya'tub.

HUGE is what? Even couple of hundred pounds won't make much difference. But let's illustrate since you don't seem to know anything about engineering.

SparkEV is about 3000 lb. If you were to drop 30 lb of weight, that's 1%. At 65 MPH, most of the force is aerodynamics, less than 25% rolling.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/01/sparkev-range.html

Then 25% of 1% is 0.25%. Assuming 70 miles range at 65 MPH after some margin and old battery, that's 0.175 miles. So if 0.25%, 0.175 miles is HUGE, yes, dropping 30 lb will be huge (rolls eyes). Even at 300 lb, that's 25% of 10%, or 2.5% * 70 = 1.75 miles. Yeah, 1.75 miles out of 70 miles is HUGE (rolls eyes like slot machine).

One reason why weight doesn't make much difference is efficiency. Gas cars make lots of heat with added weight, EV do not thanks to regenerative braking. That's why it's an old fallacy to think that added weight will kill range.

Now you might say going up hill will make huge difference, and you'd still be wrong. Rolling is linear (predominantly), which makes analysis far simpler. Compare the case for 150 lb (driver only) vs 900 lb (GVWR) in this blog post.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/03/range-polynomial-climbing-hill.html

You gave me some thoughts on estimating rolling resistance, and HUGE eye rolling thanks for that. You'll get an honorable mention.

 

[Zoomit]

communications fail. I do believe this thread has run it's course...

 

[NORTON]

communications fail. I do believe this thread has run it's course...

>Wow, really?
I work with nothing but calibrated test equipment on 6 month cycles because of the seriousness of the business I work in.
Been to Sound Engineer school once between aviation jobs and still dabble in live sound and home studio recordings to this day. I gotz them golden ears !!! :ugeek:

>Weight it always a factor. Match it up to EPA ratings for any EV or Gas. There is a direct relationship.

>But arm chair engineering is a good thing. Makes people think and research. But hopefully not write +6000 word blogs on it, using their own assumptions.

So does this forum have moderators that can shut down a thread when it gets like this? :lol:

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

communications fail. I do believe this thread has run it's course...

Don't worry; I put the summary of your findings at the very first post, so they don't have to read our discussion here.

Been to Sound Engineer school

Sorry if I came off harsh, but someone accusing me of using iphone to measure absolute sound level irked me. I got the sound meter just to make sure the values are correct. People not knowing about dB was very bothersome in my professional setting, old habits die hard. And there was the issue of losing weight (I need to gain weight), which is not much relevance to range if you investigate using Physics as I've done in my blog post.

I do find it interesting as I found a way to estimate rolling resistance by thinking about it differently thanks to you "poking" me; it's about 1% (~35 lb with just the driver). Then you can do the math to figure out the power, range, etc. As usual, I'm going to experiment to find out how close it might be, but accuracy will suffer as the effect is so small.

 

[NORTON]

Here's what burns my bunns:

If I sit still with the windows up, no music, no climate control system I can hear the PFAF sound, barely.
If I turn on the fan to only speed 1 I hear lots of noise. Faster fan speeds are much louder.
With music on a low to moderate level turning the Fan to speed 1 is noticeable. This is the sound of cheapness.
Daewoo made an HVAV system for this fine little car but, I suspect, spent zero time trying to make it quiet.

So what are you going to do?

What I can do is borrow a high quality calibrated SPL meter and make a list of various noise levels (@ human ear level in the car and @ 1 meter in front of the car):
The Pedestrian Friendly outside noise maker and the Occupant Unfriendly noise make that is the HVAC fan, at different speeds.
Windows up and down, near sound reflecting surface and sitting on grass in an open field, and any other config's I can think of..
I can gather lots of data!

But still,, what are you going to do?

An acoustic treatment could be done to the HVAC with sound absorbing materials, but I suspect it just needs a fan and shroud assy. that has been designed to be quiet, and that is beyond what the home modder can do.

And that is what burns my bunns....

This little korean S-box is just another noisy cheap little car. (But you got to love the 37% American Muscle content!)
I could gather road noise data but I know this can be so variable with road surface, tire type. wind speed and direction, etc.
I know it's louder than I like and my cheap fix is to use ear plugs when at highway speeds.
It lowers all the sounds, so you turn up the music and it sounds much better. A better S/N and you are working those crappy 4" speakers in a better range for them.

This may sound goofy, but I'm saving my drums for more important things. I lived 13 yrs / 240k miles with a '89 Geo Metro (the 58 hiwy MPG version) and I always wore plugs in that car. My drums thank me. I think that S-box was ±93 dB at speed.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

If fake noise doesn't bother you, leave it. If it does bother you, now you know how to disable it. Coming from absolute silent Prius at stop (without fan, low volume radio), constant hissing coming from SparkEV was bothering the heck out of me. When you're at a stop, your brain isn't processing as much, so you tend to pay attention to stuff.

As for quiet car, Lexus LS460 is damn quiet. Like Sergeant Schultz would say, "I hear nossing! NOSSING!" Well, not quite "nossing", but pretty close. However, LS460 is very jerky relative to SparkEV.

Did you have Metro XFi? I was going to get a used one until I found SparkEV deal.

 

[NORTON]

>If fake noise doesn't bother you, leave it...

>>?Did you have Metro XFi? I was going to get a used one until I found SparkEV deal.

> I may shut off the PFAF for testing, but to me that fan on 1 is way more noticeable.

>>In '89 there was no XFi as such, it was the base Metro. Only it had the 58 hywy mpg rating. It had the electronically controlled ignition, with no vacuum adv and ret actuators, different gearing and other fuel saving goodies, I think. It was the KFi without the model name. No AC or right outside rearview mirror. I was a tough guy back then....
I got two different rebates and paid $5200 for a $6200 car. GM didn't make much off of me that day.
Had it for 13 yrs. It was still running great but rusting in two.
I bought a 1 yr old 2000 Honda Insight, the first car to beat that 58 mpg with a 71 mpg hywy. Later down graded when EPA did a new thing with all ratings.
That got totaled, then 2 different VW TDI's, one running WVO, Then a used '10 Prius IV w/ solar sunroof, then a '13 Volt when I wanted more EV and figured I only have to pay a little more.
Now a '14 Spark EV when I wanted more EV! And with my metro area's free EV charging network, 'I'm Living the Dream' !! My only cost of ownership is Insurance and Tires.
I have another 2001 Insight as my gasser. I wish now I bought a small wagon when I was shopping for fill in car when I was shopping for the Spark EV.

Sorry, TMI...