I feel an ICE car is better in snow

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Williams

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2024
Messages
13
Location
South Carolina
I just remembered getting stuck in a snow drift last winter and having to try multiple times to get free, carefully shifting between reverse and drive. On the final attempt, I spun the wheels over some wood for traction until I smelled burning rubber. Once out, the “reduced propulsion” and service lights came on, but power returned after restarting, though the caution light stayed on....it was an experience! Honestly, an ICE car would have been much better in the snow.
 
haha, last winter I also got stuck in a snowdrift, and the torque from my EV made it tough to regain traction. It really made me appreciate how an ICE vehicle might handle those snowy conditions better.
 
Having driven quite a few ICE vehicles and the Spark in the snow, there's things I like about both. The weight the the Spark EV makes is very stable in up to a few inches of snow. That combined with decent snow tires makes it pretty good for anything except deep enough snow to get stuck in, because it's absolutely going to sink. Normally a hatch that small is unstable in light snow, but light enough that they don't get stuck easily as it gets deeper. As for throttle control, I don't think the EV is any worse than with an auto trans in an ICE vehicle, but nowhere near as good as something with a manual
 
haha, last winter I also got stuck in a snowdrift, and the torque from my EV made it tough to regain traction. It really made me appreciate how an ICE vehicle might handle those snowy conditions better.
Absolutely! That instant torque can be a double-edged sword in the snow. Did you have to dig out, or did you manage to get free eventually?
 
Having driven quite a few ICE vehicles and the Spark in the snow, there's things I like about both. The weight the the Spark EV makes is very stable in up to a few inches of snow. That combined with decent snow tires makes it pretty good for anything except deep enough snow to get stuck in, because it's absolutely going to sink. Normally a hatch that small is unstable in light snow, but light enough that they don't get stuck easily as it gets deeper. As for throttle control, I don't think the EV is any worse than with an auto trans in an ICE vehicle, but nowhere near as good as something with a manual
I completely agree, Spark's weight and good tires make a difference, and throttle control really shows the advantage of manuals in those conditions
 
Since the battery is above the rear tires you definitely need some snows here in Central Massachusetts. My 14inch old school WV wheels work great and are easier to clear of snow. The great suspension and ground clearance lets me get a good running start up my steep 180 foot driveway and the fact that the car is barely worth $3000 gives me the chutzpah to do it at 8-10 mph. :sneaky:

Btw, has anyone noticed that the Spark EV has many of the same attributes of the best selling BYD Seagull, yet is considered a joke here in the USA?
https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-cae20c92432b74e95c234d93ec1df400
 
Since the battery is above the rear tires you definitely need some snows here in Central Massachusetts. My 14inch old school WV wheels work great and are easier to clear of snow. The great suspension and ground clearance lets me get a good running start up my steep 180 foot driveway and the fact that the car is barely worth $3000 gives me the chutzpah to do it at 8-10 mph. :sneaky:

Btw, has anyone noticed that the Spark EV has many of the same attributes of the best selling BYD Seagull, yet is considered a joke here in the USA?
https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-cae20c92432b74e95c234d93ec1df400
Your setup sounds great for winter.
 
I don't think what the prime mover is, whether it's an electric motor or a combustion engine, matters so much (yes the toque is very different). I think the strategy, transmission, and tires matter far more. A fair comparison might be to ask whether a Chevy Spark would have a better time in the snow than a Spark EV under the same conditions.

I think it comes down to what your stuck strategy is, and how the car's shifting and traction control works.

I've driven in the snow a lot with my previous manual transmission Chevy Cobalt with winters, and have gotten stuck in a few instances. I've learned in those situations to rock the car with quick shifts from 1st to reverse, just as you would build momentum on a swing.

It's so much easier to do this with an electric powertrain and a straight shifter. You don't need to take your foot off the accelerator pedal to shift. Unlike a manual transmission that will grind its gears without disengaging the clutch, or an automatic that has some lag to build hydraulic pressure, the Spark EV's driveline is just a planetary and differential gearset, and the motor inverter has no moving parts besides the shifter gear selector cable running between the cabin and the engine. You effectively have an entirely new world of control to rock with, and without the need to rifle through a checklist of action steps between clutch, accelerator, and shifter.

The only thing to watch out for in the Spark EV is just how far you're holding your accelerator pedal, as shifting in motion induces stronger than usual impulse stresses in the gears from the sudden change in direction. You'd know what I'm talking about if you've ever tried shifting to N then back to D with the pedal still depressed. You feel a sudden jerk from the instant torque that the software would normally smooth out.

Feathering the pedal just above its resting position and no further ensures you limit the change in torque and don't cause massive unnecessary stresses in the driveline.


Absolutely! That instant torque can be a double-edged sword in the snow.

GM missed out on implementing the opposite of a sport mode in the ECU software. Rather than aggressively mapping the pedals, a more spread-out and insensitive mode for wintery conditions would alleviate a lot of driver attention to foot pressure. They could have simply programmed sport mode to be held down for 5 seconds to enable something like that.

There is one way to unlock this as a workaround:
Keep an OBD tool in the car. Find a clearable ECU error code that is easy to cause that will maintain a limp mode / Propulsion Power Reduced over the course of your drive. There are a few ideas I have, such as bringing a magnet to the battery coolant level reservoir to throw a HPCM2 code, jiggle communication wires, or generate electrical noise to momentarily interrupt communincation to the ECU (while parked at the start of a drive, of course). A piezoelectric igniter from a bbq lighter could induce some noise if done at the right location.

This would give very insensitive torque-pedal control to make snow-driving entirely gentle and gradual. To disable it, the car just needs a restart, or OBD fault code clearing.
 
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