info on when The Spark EV goes national?

[hodad66]

I'm in Florida and my Volt lease is up in September of 2014.....

any idea of availability in our other states?

 

[gra]

I'm in Florida and my Volt lease is up in September of 2014.....

any idea of availability in our other states?

Per GM there are no plans _at the moment_, but things could change. Expect them to wait and see how well they sell in California and Oregon before deciding to expand or not.

 

[jabird31]

Many miles away from the west coast here in ohio, i am looking forward to the spark ev here. It would be nice for GM to grab the market while they have the chance. The Volt is nice but I interested in the spark ev. The LEAF sales could pull me away from my 2 chevy gas vehicles in my garage bc i am a huge complainer about the price of gas and big oil

 

[hodad66]

I am currently leasing the Volt but I drive so little that
the Volt just forced me to burn off my year old 1/2 tank.
I have always enjoyed the feel of a small car & would love
the acceleration claimed by this lil devil. Too bad about
the torque steer.

 

[markcmann]

I am currently leasing the Volt but I drive so little that
the Volt just forced me to burn off my year old 1/2 tank.
I have always enjoyed the feel of a small car & would love
the acceleration claimed by this lil devil. Too bad about
the torque steer.

The excessive torque steer claims are a little over exaggerated. I do agree that there is torque steer when stomping the accelerator but the stability control does a good job to control the torque steer. But in real world driving conditions how often do you really floor the accelerator in any car on a a regular basis? Not often enough to be a deciding factor in choosing this car. You do the same thing with a V8 equipped Camaro and you will experience excessive fish tailing, right?

 

[Anonymous]

I hope they release it Nationally soon, or Chevy will lose a potential new customer. I haven't bought a GM since 1986.

Prius driver since 2002.

 

[ecilopaveht]

I am suprised no one has put one up on ebay. Figure someone could buy one, get the tax credit and sell it on ebay after a "short" while.

 

[trbizwiz]

I sent Chevy this email:


I recently contacted Chevrolet about leasing a Spark EV. I was told Chevrolet only wants to sell Spark EVs in California and Oregon. I further investigated the possibility of buying a Spark in CA and transporting it to my home state. I was told Chevrolet would view that as fraud.
It is my understanding that the Chevy Spark EV is subsidized by a $7500 federal tax rebate. That tax rebate is funded by all American tax payers in all fifty states, but only benefits those in two states. I believe this practice is highly unfair to the American tax payers. The same American tax payers that bailed Chevrolet out of financial crisis.
I really think Chevrolet has made an error in judgement here.
I have submitted requests to all of my elected officials on the state and federal level to place a moratorium on federal tax subsidies for EVs or any qualifying vehicle from any manufacturer, which is not made available in all fifty states to all of America's tax payers. It only seems fair that if we are not permitted to buy the vehicles then no federal subsidies should be paid. Additionally if you say you intend to sell it to all fifty states down the road then you are giving CA and OR an unfair lead on the number of federal rebates for each model. Anyway you look at it, it is unfair to the American people for only a few citizens in a few states to get federal subsidies paid for by all of us.
I hope in the interim Chevrolet will either stop selling Spark EVs or make them available in all fifty states even if only by special order. I expect those orders will be filled in the same manner that vehicles are delivered to CA and OR dealers.

 

[trbizwiz]

Chevy nicely told me to buzz off they aren't interested in making this vehicle available to the rest of us.
If you live in a state not included in the spark EV sales, you should contact your elected officials about changing legislation to help Chevrolet change their mind.
I don't want to see Chevrolet stop selling the Spark in the current regions. But I don't see why they can not make a limited number available by special order to prospective buyers in other states. Especially since the spark does receive significant financial help from tax payers.

 

[blownb310]

I agree with your assessment and wish we could get them here in NY.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am suprised no one has put one up on ebay. Figure someone could buy one, get the tax credit and sell it on ebay after a "short" while.

Many dealers have pulled this scam, selling a "used" EV with only 3 miles on it. The consumer gets a huge discount and never complains because of the "good deal", and the dealer stuffs his back pocket with tax payer cash.

It's common.

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't want to see Chevrolet stop selling the Spark in the current regions. But I don't see why they can not make a limited number available by special order to prospective buyers in other states. Especially since the spark does receive significant financial help from tax payers.

GM isn't the only company doing this. "Large Vehicle Manufacturers" (after Nissan) are pretty much just supplying the absolute minimum "compliance vehicle" for California

CARB - ZEV The six “Large Vehicles Manufacturers” that need to meet CARB – ZEV standards for 2012-2014 model years are:

GM – Spark EV (400 sold, estimate a few thousand to be sold in CARB states California and Oregon)
FORD – Focus EV (estimate "up to" 5 thousand to be sold)
Chrysler/Fiat – 500e (estimate 1000 to be sold, 475 sold for 2013)
Toyota – Rav4 EV (2600 announced, 1200 sold so far). Toyota is likely to use hydrogen cars for 2015-2017 CARB ZEV compliance
Honda – Fit EV (1100 announced). Honda is likely to use hydrogen cars for 2015-2017 CARB ZEV
Nissan – LEAF (80,000 SOLD worldwide, probably over 15,000 in California… They SELL credits to other companies, as does Tesla. Tesla made $63 million so far doing that!)


CARB-ZEV proposed changes:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/2013zevreg/proposedregchanges052013.pdf

ZEV credit balances, and ZEV credit transfers as of September 30, 2013. To view this information, please visit the 2012 ZEV Credits website located at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevcredits/2012zevcredits.htm


For 2015 and beyond, from CARB:

"BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs."

Model Year - Total ZEV Percent Requirement:

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

Any type of ZEV may be used

CARB-ZEV credit per vehicle:

Type V - 300+ miles range "hydrogen" - Credit per vehicle: 9 (2015-2017 only)
Type V - 300+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 7
Type IV - 200+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 5
Type III - 100+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 4
Type III - 200+ miles range -------------- Credit per vehicle: 4
Type II - 100+ miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 3
Type I.5 - 75-100 miles range ----------- Credit per vehicle: 2.5
Type I - 50-75 miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 2

After 2017, the credits for Type III, IV and V drop to 3

All manufacturers must report by May of the calendar year following the compliance model year; e.g., for 2008 model year, report is due may 1, 2009. Manufacturers may update reports until September. Manufacturers have two years to make up a ZEV deficit, or they are subject to penalties outlines in Health and Safety Code 43211:

$5000 penalty per vehicle CREDIT not produced

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/macs/macs.htm

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/default/files/document/attachments/JointCommentsCAWaiverRequest10-19-12.pdf

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."

 

[trbizwiz]

I am not advocating dealers do this, because ti is unlawful. however, it can be a good deal for consumers. Not every consumer qualifies for the full rebate, and you do not get the rebate until you file your taxes. So buying these in November or December is a good deal, but any other time means a lengthy wait for your rebate.
The Fed is considering changing the format of the rules to make the rebate more "instant". we will see how that turns out.
When you lease a Spark, the financier gets the rebate, so it is a similar process.

Personally the lease deal is so good, why would you buy one of these? under $220 per month and a fuel bill under $20. This makes a perfect second car, and keep s the over all cost under your current fuel cost for a dino burner. The only reason no to lease would be miles driven. But with the battery situation, 12000 miles per year seem about right.

 

[trbizwiz]

I did not mean to imply GM was the only guilty party here. I just referenced GM because they have the ZEV I want to own. Of course all manufacturers are ignoring the rest of America in favor of a few states.
Those CARB rules are state specific. If the cars are also state specific, the Fed should not be funding them.

I don't want to see Chevrolet stop selling the Spark in the current regions. But I don't see why they can not make a limited number available by special order to prospective buyers in other states. Especially since the spark does receive significant financial help from tax payers.

GM isn't the only company doing this. "Large Vehicle Manufacturers" (after Nissan) are pretty much just supplying the absolute minimum "compliance vehicle" for California

CARB - ZEV The six “Large Vehicles Manufacturers” that need to meet CARB – ZEV standards for 2012-2014 model years are:

GM – Spark EV (400 sold, estimate a few thousand to be sold in CARB states California and Oregon)
FORD – Focus EV (estimate "up to" 5 thousand to be sold)
Chrysler/Fiat – 500e (estimate 1000 to be sold, 475 sold for 2013)
Toyota – Rav4 EV (2600 announced, 1200 sold so far). Toyota is likely to use hydrogen cars for 2015-2017 CARB ZEV compliance
Honda – Fit EV (1100 announced). Honda is likely to use hydrogen cars for 2015-2017 CARB ZEV
Nissan – LEAF (80,000 SOLD worldwide, probably over 15,000 in California… They SELL credits to other companies, as does Tesla. Tesla made $63 million so far doing that!)


CARB-ZEV proposed changes:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/2013zevreg/proposedregchanges052013.pdf

ZEV credit balances, and ZEV credit transfers as of September 30, 2013. To view this information, please visit the 2012 ZEV Credits website located at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevcredits/2012zevcredits.htm


For 2015 and beyond, from CARB:

"BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs."

Model Year - Total ZEV Percent Requirement:

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

Any type of ZEV may be used

CARB-ZEV credit per vehicle:

Type V - 300+ miles range "hydrogen" - Credit per vehicle: 9 (2015-2017 only)
Type V - 300+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 7
Type IV - 200+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 5
Type III - 100+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 4
Type III - 200+ miles range -------------- Credit per vehicle: 4
Type II - 100+ miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 3
Type I.5 - 75-100 miles range ----------- Credit per vehicle: 2.5
Type I - 50-75 miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 2

After 2017, the credits for Type III, IV and V drop to 3

All manufacturers must report by May of the calendar year following the compliance model year; e.g., for 2008 model year, report is due may 1, 2009. Manufacturers may update reports until September. Manufacturers have two years to make up a ZEV deficit, or they are subject to penalties outlines in Health and Safety Code 43211:

$5000 penalty per vehicle CREDIT not produced

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/macs/macs.htm

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/default/files/document/attachments/JointCommentsCAWaiverRequest10-19-12.pdf

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."