Leftover 2014 Spark EV - Battery condition & life

[nozferatu]

I'm not guessing. I'm going by your words. You're most certainly correct that my experiences are not the same as yours. You couldn't be more right on that.

You GOM and downhill comments are guessing. Going by my words? I said over a 100 miles at that speed...what part is not clear to you?

 

[Nashco]

The best I've got on a single charge so far is 120 miles, and this was just normal city commuting for me...no special route, speeds, etc. After driving the car for a while, you'll quickly get a feeling for the difference in range depending on your drive speed and habits. Slowing down just a few miles an hour on the interstate can go a long ways (literally!) if you find yourself uncomfortable with the remaining range.

The car actually gets slightly BETTER range after a bit of driving, I suspect the most significant contributor is the tires actually get more efficient as they wear (reduced rolling resistance). My car at 4000 miles was getting much better efficiency than when it had 500 miles, and it's pretty rare I drop below the 4.4 mi/kWh bogey that they base the estimated range on. With A123 chemistry and battery management, I wouldn't have any concern picking up a 2014 lease with your drive cycle; by the time the battery deteriorates significantly your lease will be long over. Worst case scenario, you find a level 1 to plug into during work if it's extremely hot/cold or swing by a level 2 for 30 minutes if that suits you better. Given the relatively mild climate there, I doubt you'd have issues.

Good luck!

Bryce

 

[nozferatu]

The best I've got on a single charge so far is 120 miles, and this was just normal city commuting for me...no special route, speeds, etc. After driving the car for a while, you'll quickly get a feeling for the difference in range depending on your drive speed and habits. Slowing down just a few miles an hour on the interstate can go a long ways (literally!) if you find yourself uncomfortable with the remaining range.

The car actually gets slightly BETTER range after a bit of driving, I suspect the most significant contributor is the tires actually get more efficient as they wear (reduced rolling resistance). My car at 4000 miles was getting much better efficiency than when it had 500 miles, and it's pretty rare I drop below the 4.4 mi/kWh bogey that they base the estimated range on. With A123 chemistry and battery management, I wouldn't have any concern picking up a 2014 lease with your drive cycle; by the time the battery deteriorates significantly your lease will be long over. Worst case scenario, you find a level 1 to plug into during work if it's extremely hot/cold or swing by a level 2 for 30 minutes if that suits you better. Given the relatively mild climate there, I doubt you'd have issues.

Good luck!

Bryce

I agree my range has been improving since I bought the car. Having almost 9000 miles on it now, I am able to go longer distances with less charge loss.

I've been regularly getting 110 miles per charge in recent times and my 5.3-5.4 mi/kWh indeed helps.

Yesterday morning's charge. :lol:

I go to Chino Hills often (probably done it with this car about 10 times by now) and it's about 47 miles and change from where I live. 210/57/71....some hills both ways. I've made it back round trip without charging from varying speeds ranging from 55-70+ mph and once back home I've about 15-18 miles of range left. On the way home I've a number of free charging stations all L2 that I can pull over and charge if something goes wrong.

The climate is pretty suitable as I rarely use the heater however on very very hot days, it has caused some funky range issues..one which I documented a while back when I had severe range loss. Never found out what that was but it hasn't happened since.

 

[buickanddeere]

Some battery compositions actually improve from brand new and peak somewhere around 20-30% into their service lift.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm not guessing. I'm going by your words. You're most certainly correct that my experiences are not the same as yours. You couldn't be more right on that.

You GOM and downhill comments are guessing. Going by my words? I said over a 100 miles at that speed...what part is not clear to you?

The part about going THAT SPEED to get that economy / range. None of this is a surprise to me; I expect "special" stuff from you.

Since I predict this exchange to go downhill quickly with your usual hate inspired diatribes, I will end my interaction with you about the subject.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Some battery compositions actually improve from brand new and peak somewhere around 20-30% into their service lift.

Lithium doesn't "peak", except when new. It just degrades.

It's all downhill from new.

 

[nozferatu]

I'm not guessing. I'm going by your words. You're most certainly correct that my experiences are not the same as yours. You couldn't be more right on that.

You GOM and downhill comments are guessing. Going by my words? I said over a 100 miles at that speed...what part is not clear to you?

The part about going THAT SPEED to get that economy / range. None of this is a surprise to me; I expect "special" stuff from you.

Since I predict this exchange to go downhill quickly with your usual hate inspired diatribes, I will end my interaction with you about the subject.

I expect special stuff from you too as it seems unfathomable to you that someone can outperform your expectations...

As usual and right on cue, your usual demeaning and arrogant behavior takes over.

Anyway, yes...please end your interactions with me. I'd rather talk to Bryce who has infinitely more technical knowledge than you do.

 

[cwerdna]

Some battery compositions actually improve from brand new and peak somewhere around 20-30% into their service lift.

Source? And, which vehicles use that?

The car actually gets slightly BETTER range after a bit of driving, I suspect the most significant contributor is the tires actually get more efficient as they wear (reduced rolling resistance).

Not only is rolling resistance slightly reduced as a tire wears, the distance registered by the odometer will increase slightly as well. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=177 discusses both of these.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I expect special stuff from you too as it seems unfathomable to you that someone can outperform your expectations...

As usual and right on cue, your usual demeaning and arrogant behavior takes over.

Anyway, yes...please end your interactions with me. I'd rather talk to Bryce who has infinitely more technical knowledge than you do.

Awesome plan. You two (and one or two others) seem like peas in a pod. Congrats!!!

Best wishes,

Tony

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not only is rolling resistance slightly reduced as a tire wears, the distance registered by the odometer will increase slightly as well. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=177 discusses both of these.

When doing range test (I just completed one on the Soul EV, to be published shortly, and the Mercedes B-Class in a few days), we all check the odometer and speedometer against both GPS and Google Maps. An old fashioned stop watch comes in handy, too.

Tires always are worst for range when new (as noted in the linked article). Also, tire pressure makes a somewhat significant difference, several percentage points even.

By the way, how do you think the Soul EV compared to the Spark EV? I can tell you that I was really surprised with the Spark.

 

[nozferatu]

I expect special stuff from you too as it seems unfathomable to you that someone can outperform your expectations...

As usual and right on cue, your usual demeaning and arrogant behavior takes over.

Anyway, yes...please end your interactions with me. I'd rather talk to Bryce who has infinitely more technical knowledge than you do.

Awesome plan. You two (and one or two others) seem like peas in a pod. Congrats!!!

Best wishes,

Tony

Thanks!!! Best advice you've ever given!

Regards,
Noz

 

[Buzzman]

So, I picked up my silver 2014 Spark EV this weekend. It is great fun to drive. Drove it into work yesterday & today. I am able to make it round trip on a full charge. Here's the data:

Monday, inbound to work, 39 miles, approx 500' elevation drop. 95 % highway Going 62-63 mph when clear, otherwise with traffic, average speed is around 52 mph (45 min for 39 mile drive). Trip average listed as 5.8 miles/kWh.

I charged Level 1 at 12A for about 5 hours at work just to be safe, did about a 5 mile detour on the way home for catch dinner with a friend. Trip home was less traffic, but went 62-63 mph, but average speed is likely up in the high 50 mph range (39 mile trip takes around 40 min). Trip average at 4.2 miles/kWh. So the 500' uphill vs downhill makes a huge difference. Maybe higher average speed hurts too?

Today, started with 85 miles range estimated, same story going in, 5.8 miles/kWh. It's funny because when I get to work I've done 39 miles but the listed range is still 70 miles. I didn't charge at work on purpose to see how the trip home would be. I drove maybe a little faster 64-65 mph, but trip average was down to 4.0 miles/kWh. I got home with 14 miles of range remaining. So the 39 mile trip home used 56 miles of range! No energy used for climate control or battery conditioning on any trip so far.

So far so good. On the return trip just as I was crossing the summit of Hwy 17 the low-end range estimator hit 10 miles and turned orange and the car asked me if I wanted to turn off the radio. I can't believe turning off he radio could make much of a difference! But it was all downhill from there so I picked up a few miles of range by the time I arrived home. By the way, at what range level remaining does the car go into reduced power mode? could not find that info in the owners manual.

I think one of the hardest things to do with this car will be to restrict myself to 61-62 mph to make sure I get home! If I spend a few hours plugged in on level 1 at work it will be a non issue. This is anecdotal, but I have noticed over the past year that Leaf drivers in particular are often the slowest drivers on the freeway. I wonder if they are just trying to make sure they get to their destination.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
You've discovered what Leafers called the GOM (guess-o-meter). Turning off the radio is a laughable suggestion to conserve power (TonyWilliams' discovered that "suggestion" in his range test). You'd be better off turning off your HVAC system completely and more importantly, keeping your speed down and also not accelerating so much that you need to waste it via either regen or friction braking.

I believe adopting some hypermiler techniques should help too, such as accelerating/gaining momentum on flat, downhill or less steep portions and on uphill grades, curtailing your acceleration and stop trying to maintain a constant speed.

Ahhh yes.... going up and down highway 17 is sure "fun" w/GOMs. Basing range estimates on recent driving history doesn't work too well when the future driving has nothing to do w/recent/previous driving. GOMs don't predict the future... well, they could do it better if combined w/following a route on the nav system and elevation data.

Yep, I've had my Leaf's GOM fall 40 miles while going only ~10 due to going uphill on 17. Then the GOM doesn't go up or down as I'm going downhill...

Yes, some, but not all Leaf drivers are very slow on the highway. And yes, when they are slow, it's often due to either range anxiety or trying to extend their range. If I know I have PLENTY of range and esp. if I know I don't need to pay to charge (e.g. at home or non-free public charging), I'm more inclined to let her rip.

Tony put together this range chart for the Leaf: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293, before it had a % state of charge display (new on '13+ Leafs). If you drive 75 mph on level ground in a Leaf, efficiency should be 3.0 miles/kWh and range should be ~62 miles. If you go 35, it should be 6.3 miles/kWh and range should be ~132 miles. A new Leaf w/undegraded batery has ~21 kWh usable...

The gid value (via hardware tools) is what pre-'13 Leafers had been using as a proxy for % SoC since the GOM fluctuated a lot and the 12-fuel bars weren't granular enough. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10301 was 1 of many threads on gids, but ~281 gids was what a new '11-'12 Leaf read on a full charge.

 

[xylhim]

I think EV drivers going slow could be more than just range anxiety, or trying to maximize range. As a driver of an EV, you get instant feedback about how many kilowatts that are being consumed; this makes you more conscious of your energy use, and it actually becomes fun to see just how efficient the car can drive on the highway.

 

[Chaconzies]

Well I'm glad to hear it's all good so far. I expect that you'll get used to the route and their really won't be any abnormalities from what you've seen. I'd make sure that when charging at work you remember to set the 120V amperage to 12 (it will always default to 8). Also, if you haven't already, definitely check out Plugshare.com There are a ton of L2 in that area since it's a tech area and it looks like a few CCS are in the process of being built and powered up (You're lucky, they're rare) so those can help you out for sure if you really need it.