LET'S BUILD THE CALIFORNIA WEST COAST ELECTRIC HIGHWAY

[TonyWilliams]

FABULOUS !!
Permission to use/adapt this?
All EV enthusiasts could magnify the impact of this by sending to multiple legislative Representatives.

You certainly have my permission to use this in any way that promotes EV infrastructure.

 

[FutureFolly]

Tony, your EV cohorts and you set reasonable goals for usable DC-FC infrastructure. I like the idea of building the network like an interstate highway with uniformity and regulated standards. Have you considered starting an NGO designed to make charging more democratic?

I would have liked to hear where you think phases 3-10 should go more than the first two. Connecting the Bay to LA is the easiest corridor to push for. CA needs to target DC-FC viable travel on almost all major highways in the state if they want to prove what the technology can do. At what point do we push corridors into NV and AZ? What about corridors in the Bay Area(101,280,580,680,880)? Should connecting very long distance areas be the priority? Should the CA-WCEH focus on expansion before gap shortening on existing corridors? What type of pricing regulations would you push for?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, your EV cohorts and you set reasonable goals for usable DC-FC infrastructure. I like the idea of building the network like an interstate highway with uniformity and regulated standards. Have you considered starting an NGO designed to make charging more democratic?

We are indeed working on the "democratic" NGO type organization of which you speak!!!

I would have liked to hear where you think phases 3-10 should go more than the first two. Connecting the Bay to LA is the easiest corridor to push for. CA needs to target DC-FC viable travel on almost all major highways in the state if they want to prove what the technology can do. At what point do we push corridors into NV and AZ? What about corridors in the Bay Area(101,280,580,680,880)? Should connecting very long distance areas be the priority? Should the CA-WCEH focus on expansion before gap shortening on existing corridors? What type of pricing regulations would you push for?

Pricing should be "competitive" with other providers... monthly plans, per kWh plans, and per use.


Draw a "London Underground" style map: (no particular order for 2-6, but 7 is last):


1) San Diego to Oregon, via I-5 and CA-99 (interchange circle at Los Angeles and Sacramento)
2) San Diego to Las Vegas, via I-15 (interchange circle at San Bernadino)
3) Los Angeles to Phoenix, via I-10 (Interchange circle at San Bernadino)
4) Los Angeles to Oregon via US-101 (interchange circle at San Francisco)
5) San Francisco to Reno via I-80 (interchange circle at Sacramento)
6) San Diego to Yuma / Tucson via I-8 (interchange circle in San Diego)
7) dashed line for future I-5 corridor, Grapevine (Lebec) to Sacramento (difficult for electric power and services, like I-15, I-10 and I-8)

 

[FutureFolly]

With exclusivity for many miles, I worry about price gouging. $1/kWh could happen.

 

[TonyWilliams]

With exclusivity for many miles, I worry about price gouging. $1/kWh could happen.

Certainly, that's not our of the realm of possibilities. I'm not sure how to fix it short of competition or regulation.

 

[FutureFolly]

The real problem I see with EV infrastructure is that public financing of 21st century infrastructure is almost a non-starter with conservatives. Every highway in the country could be viable for DC-FC travel with the right support. In comparison to the cost of the highway itself not already having a plan in place is almost ridiculous. I'm not saying I want Cal Trans maintaining the WCEH, but having eminent domain and more money than any private business should make implementing it very straight forward and quick. A slow roll out makes breaking the Chicken/Egg Paradox more difficult.

I would suggest leasing sections of the network to private businesses in a similar way to how UK light rail is operated.

I don't understand why the State doesn't want to focus hydrogen subsidies on the commercial truck sector that might actually be able to save money using hydrogen. No one will ever save money driving a hydrogen car versus a Prius. The fact that a 30,000 lb truck would need a FC stack only slightly larger than the Mirai gets widely ignored.

 

[ezryder]

Tony, your EV cohorts and you set reasonable goals for usable DC-FC infrastructure. I like the idea of building the network like an interstate highway with uniformity and regulated standards. Have you considered starting an NGO designed to make charging more democratic?

We are indeed working on the "democratic" NGO type organization of which you speak!!!

I would have liked to hear where you think phases 3-10 should go more than the first two. Connecting the Bay to LA is the easiest corridor to push for. CA needs to target DC-FC viable travel on almost all major highways in the state if they want to prove what the technology can do. At what point do we push corridors into NV and AZ? What about corridors in the Bay Area(101,280,580,680,880)? Should connecting very long distance areas be the priority? Should the CA-WCEH focus on expansion before gap shortening on existing corridors? What type of pricing regulations would you push for?

Pricing should be "competitive" with other providers... monthly plans, per kWh plans, and per use.


Draw a "London Underground" style map: (no particular order for 2-6, but 7 is last):


1) San Diego to Oregon, via I-5 and CA-99 (interchange circle at Los Angeles and Sacramento)
2) San Diego to Las Vegas, via I-15 (interchange circle at San Bernadino)
3) Los Angeles to Phoenix, via I-10 (Interchange circle at San Bernadino)
4) Los Angeles to Oregon via US-101 (interchange circle at San Francisco)
5) San Francisco to Reno via I-80 (interchange circle at Sacramento)
6) San Diego to Yuma / Tucson via I-8 (interchange circle in San Diego)
7) dashed line for future I-5 corridor, Grapevine (Lebec) to Sacramento (difficult for electric power and services, like I-15, I-10 and I-8)

Consider PCH-1, up the coast, has almost NOTHING on it, yet this is a big tourist destination. There's not a single DC-FC from L.A. to SF, outside of one in Pacifica, (thankfully). You can't make it from Pacifica to Monterrey on a single charge. You can't even make it from Half Moon Bay to Monterrey. In fact, I'm not sure you can even make it from the Valley - San Jose, let's say - to Monterrey. Same goes for going north on the coast to Mendocino.

The way I see it, Spark EV's and other non-Tesla EV's are great for commuting and weekday driving. They meet 80% of our driving needs, period, if not more. But what do people like to do on the weekends? Drive to friends, go to the coast, getaway weekends. None of this is really do-able unless you have a 200 mile range car, minimum. Santa Cruz - of ALL places - should have a DC-FC, as well as Monterey/PG/Carmel. Then another in Big Sur - another "of ALL places" location. Etcetera down the coast. It 's a real drag that I live on the coast and can't drive DOWN it and get back again. It's not like it's an unpopular route.

They did just install two Level 2's in Half Moon Bay, but whoopdedoo. Level 2's are almost meaningless unless you're at work at staying overnight somewhere. Unless you have a car that can charge 20 miles in an hour... like a Tesla. Even then...

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is a common complaint:

"I live near XYZ and ABC, yet there's no DC a charger there. Why wouldn't you do that first?"

The various tourist spots are just that, and the WCEH is first and foremost an interstate transportation EV recharging program.

I personally can't drive to the eastern part of San Diego county, yet we have 3.5 million residents and as many EV's per capita as the SF Bay. I recognize that my local need is not a statewide and interstate issue.

There are TONS of places that should have a charger. Just wait until the next complaint is "there should be ten chargers there instead of four... it's always busy!"

 

[FutureFolly]

Draw a "London Underground" style map: (no particular order for 2-6, but 7 is last):


1) San Diego to Oregon, via I-5 and CA-99 (interchange circle at Los Angeles and Sacramento)
2) San Diego to Las Vegas, via I-15 (interchange circle at San Bernadino)
3) Los Angeles to Phoenix, via I-10 (Interchange circle at San Bernadino)
4) Los Angeles to Oregon via US-101 (interchange circle at San Francisco)
5) San Francisco to Reno via I-80 (interchange circle at Sacramento)
6) San Diego to Yuma / Tucson via I-8 (interchange circle in San Diego)
7) dashed line for future I-5 corridor, Grapevine (Lebec) to Sacramento (difficult for electric power and services, like I-15, I-10 and I-8)

So I-5, I-15, I-10, and I-8 would be the most expensive to implement by your research?

Has there been any cooperation with utility companies to make high power service along these highways more accessible? Working with them early versus starting with existing commercial lines should make scaling up in the future the most practical.

Some sections of highway will need to charge premium rates just because of the extreme difficulty of implementing the stations. A station that operates off-grid may even be necessary. At least until battery prices drop dramatically that kind of travel could easily cost more than gasoline per mile.

 

[xylhim]

I would gladly do cross country road trips (I already did one) in my Spark if there were more DCFS infrastructure. The great american road trip is overrated with people trying to do marathons of driving. You're not really seeing the country side from a moving vehicle, especially if you're a driver. Stop, charge for a bit, "smell the roses", then head to the next destination. Stopping every 80 -100 miles isn't bad.

I would also like to see more national and state parks get on-board with high speed charging. The advantages are clear" less local pollution, quieter vehicles, and the people going to the parks are already more likely to get a green car so in park charging stations would encourage their EV adoption.

 

[gra]

I would gladly do cross country road trips (I already did one) in my Spark if there were more DCFS infrastructure. The great american road trip is overrated with people trying to do marathons of driving. You're not really seeing the country side from a moving vehicle, especially if you're a driver. Stop, charge for a bit, "smell the roses", then head to the next destination. Stopping every 80 -100 miles isn't bad.

It's not bad if that's what you want to do. The problem is that most people use a car to get them quickly and conveniently to their destination. People who wish to 'see the countryside' can do so far better on foot or on a bicycle than they can from inside a car.

I would also like to see more national and state parks get on-board with high speed charging. The advantages are clear" less local pollution, quieter vehicles, and the people going to the parks are already more likely to get a green car so in park charging stations would encourage their EV adoption.

Most parks, especially national parks, lack the electric infrastructure to support high speed (DCQC) charging. At many locations such as trailheads and campgrounds where cars are likely to be parked for long periods of time, they lack ANY electric infrastructure, nor is there any desire on the part of the NPS to provide it at such locations - the last thing they're trying to encourage is more development. Aside from the few major parks that have highly-developed areas with large power requirements in them (parts of Yellowstone, Yosemite Village etc.), L2 is about as much as you can expect inside the park. The place to put QCs is in the gateway towns just outside.

 

[TonyWilliams]

First draft:

 

[FutureFolly]

Well done Tony! I wish there were some good DOE grants that could get this project done quickly. Even local governments should consider subsidies.

 

[nikwax]

I believe both PG&E and SCE are intending to build a lot of charging stations:

http://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroom/newsdetails/index.page?title=20150209_pge_proposes_major_build-out_of_electric_vehicle_charging_stations


http://www.dra.ca.gov/general.aspx?id=3016

 

[gra]

I believe both PG&E and SCE are intending to build a lot of charging stations:

http://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroom/newsdetails/index.page?title=20150209_pge_proposes_major_build-out_of_electric_vehicle_charging_stations


http://www.dra.ca.gov/general.aspx?id=3016

As was to be expected, there's lobbying underway to prevent them from doing so, from Chargepoint and probably other charging providers, plus consumer advocacy groups like TURN.

 

[nikwax]

There's an opportunity for the public to lobby as well

 

[nikwax]

Hey Tony et al,

The proper spelling is EVs, not EV's.
The apostrophe makes it possessive, so it's proper if one is referring to my "EV's range", for example, but the plural of EV is EVs.

Yeah, my mother was an English teacher.

Thanks!

Apostrophe is correct if it adds clarity to the construct.

 

[nikwax]

I'm very interested in EV touring as well. I'm disappointed to see that the West Coast Electric Highway is built of CHAdeMO and level 2 chargers. I'm hoping that BMW / VW's promise to add 100 chargers will give us a network of SAE DCFC stations by the end of this year.

 

[oregonsparky]

I'm very interested in EV touring as well. I'm disappointed to see that the West Coast Electric Highway is built of CHAdeMO and level 2 chargers. I'm hoping that BMW / VW's promise to add 100 chargers will give us a network of SAE DCFC stations by the end of this year.

Sorry to be a killjoy but... I think what we will find is that the new sae fast chargers will be added around "key markets". e.g. san francisco, Los Angeles metro... In the Portland Oregon area we have 3 in Portland and another 2 in Salem Oregon and that is it...

The main target market for ev's is currently for commuter use. And this is, I think why the spark EV sales did so well the last month or two... The price point was where someone could lease it and have as a "commuter car" and have their ICE for longer trips - the lease cost is offset by fuel cost savings and you save depreciation on your ICE as well...

Given all of the above - the biggest bang for the buck for BMW, VW, etc. is to subsidize new chargers around these target metro areas and not put chargers along I-5 from LA to Seattle, etc. (by the way the number of SAE DCFC in washington state is *zero*).

jeff

 

[nikwax]

That's not what BMW / VW / Chargepoint announced:

http://www.chargepoint.com/press-releases/2015/0122