Looking to buy and some advice...

[MoldyWalnuts]

Hello Forum!

I'm in SoCal and in the market for a used Chevy Spark EV. I would like one with somewhere around 30K miles or less. Would 50K miles or more on these cars be detrimental? Thank you

 

[SparkE]

Maybe. It depends on how the car was treated (just like any used car). If you are buying (say) a turbo, did the previous owner always wait 30 seconds after the car was put in 'Park' to make sure the turbo had completely stopped spinning before turning off the engine and dropping the oil pressure to zero?

For a Spark, how was the battery treated? How was it charged? At what rates at what temperature? That could affect the battery health (how much capacity is left). EV batteries DO age, and how they are treated determines how quickly.

The best bet is to find somebody who can plug in an OBD2 reader and find out what the battery capacity is. (OBD2 port is the 'diagnostic' port on all modern vehicles.)

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Maybe. It depends on how the car was treated (just like any used car). If you are buying (say) a turbo, did the previous owner always wait 30 seconds after the car was put in 'Park' to make sure the turbo had completely stopped spinning before turning off the engine and dropping the oil pressure to zero?

For a Spark, how was the battery treated? How was it charged? At what rates at what temperature? That could affect the battery health (how much capacity is left). EV batteries DO age, and how they are treated determines how quickly.

The best bet is to find somebody who can plug in an OBD2 reader and find out what the battery capacity is. (OBD2 port is the 'diagnostic' port on all modern vehicles.)

I definitely agree! It also wouldn't hurt to scan the OBD2 port for any non-resolved codes (assuming the codes were not cleared) and have a chevy dealer check to determine if there are any outstanding recalls, technical service bulletins or software updates that have yet to be resolved.

 

[user 1323]

I bought mine last summer from Craigslist. Look for Driveline Financial - the guy’s name is Patrick, he’s a small dealer in north San Diego and sells really low mileage, clean cars with fast charge, usually one or two at a time. I would not recommend the non-fast charge ones because it’s super handy to charge in 15-20 min in a pinch when you’re picking up your mother from the airport and forgot to charge up. Mine had 14k miles and still had the new car smell he even helped me fast charge in Carlsbad to get me home.

I love love love the Spark. I suggest you buy a OBD Bluetooth dongle for like 20 bucks on amazon and the Torque Pro app on android for 5 bucks. Don’t cheap out on this if you want to keep an eye on your battery for a long time (it’s addictive), and it may save you from buying a very degraded battery. Mine had 15.8kwh capacity and currently has 15.7. The previous owner might have been driving hard I dunno. The guessometer still says 84 miles when charged though so no visible issues with range. It’s very efficient, I get over 5 miles per kWh easily.

You’ll probably get new front speakers too, for clarity. That’s the only upgrade I’ve made (easy).

That’s my two cents. Good luck!

 

[NORTON]

... if you want to keep an eye on your battery for a long time (it’s addictive), and it may save you from buying a very degraded battery.
Mine had 15.8kwh capacity and currently has 15.7.
The previous owner might have been driving hard I dunno. ....

Has there ever been a Spark EV with a 'very degraded battery'?
How much difference is there in the capacity data use Torque vs. the Energy Page if you plot (?) weekly readings over a long time?
(This time of year I don't bother plotting because I'm plugged at home and work. With a 25 mile commute it never gets below ~60% SOC)
Li-ion batteries degrade .
Gassers degrade. It's all a question of mileage and age.

Driving 'hard' may not be a contributor.
Having the car constantly charged to 100% and then unplugging the car and leaving it sit in really hot weather may contribute, I dunno,

 

[SparkE]

... if you want to keep an eye on your battery for a long time (it’s addictive), and it may save you from buying a very degraded battery.
Mine had 15.8kwh capacity and currently has 15.7.
The previous owner might have been driving hard I dunno. ....

Has there ever been a Spark EV with a 'very degraded battery'?

Well, the batteries *started* with a capacity of around 18.5 kWh or so. So a capacity of 14.8 kWh is about 20% loss. I don't know if you consider that "significant" or not - but I do. It isn't "very degraded", but if the loss continues at the same rate, then in 4 years the loss will be around 40%.




My "has 16.9 kWh now" Spark (that I just bought) has lost about 8.6% (and I was very happy to find it - after looking for about a year). I will be very happy if I have a car with 70-ish miles of range in 4 years.

 

[MoldyWalnuts]

thank you for your replies! there's a 2014 2LT with fast charging option and about 50K miles in great condition. seller says charging cuts-off/stops when it reaches 85 mile range. i can get it for $6800, or pay a few thousand more for a 2015/16 with about half the mileage, all other things being equal... what would you do?

also, does the 2014 have a "better" battery? don't want to step on anyone's toes here, just heard that 2015/16 Li-ion batteries degrade faster. perhaps i don't know what i'm talking about, but i know you do so please share thanks

 

[MrDRMorgan]

thank you for your replies! there's a 2014 2LT with fast charging option and about 50K miles in great condition. seller says charging cuts-off/stops when it reaches 85 mile range. i can get it for $6800, or pay a few thousand more for a 2015/16 with about half the mileage, all other things being equal... what would you do?

also, does the 2014 have a "better" battery? don't want to step on anyone's toes here, just heard that 2015/16 Li-ion batteries degrade faster. perhaps i don't know what i'm talking about, but i know you do so please share thanks

I have been driving a used 2014 Spark EV 2LT without DCFC which I purchased in August of 2015. So far, it has been a great car. I leased a 2015 Spark EV 2LT and near the end of the lease it had a problem which cased the HV battery capacity to drop by about 1 kWh. A friend of mine who also leased a 2015 Spark EV had a similar problem and his battery capacity dropped to 14 .8 kWh as measured with TorquePro. In August of 2014, I purchased a used 2016 Spark EV with DCFC. It has been a great car too. Both the 2014 and the 2016 Spark EVs have been exhibiting a gradual drop in HV battery capacity since June 2018 when I started measuring battery capacity using TorquePro. I suspect this may be due to the drop in ambient temperature since June. If true, I should see a gradual increase in HV battery capacity as the ambient temperature warms up going into spring and summer.

$6800 is not a bad price for a 2014 Spark EV in good to excellent condition and which has DCFC. If I were you, I would try to find someone who is using TorquePro to measure his Spark EV or Bolt EV battery capacity and have him measure the HV battery capacity in the vehicle you are considering. Note: the full-charge GOM mileage value is very dependent on how the car has been driven and driving conditions. I see GOM values of 95 to 100 miles in late spring through early fall. In winter, I use the heater and my full-charge GOM valued drop to around 70 miles.

 

[SparkE]

Note: the full-charge GOM mileage value is very dependent on how the car has been driven and driving conditions. I see GOM values of 95 to 100 miles in late spring through early fall. In winter, I use the heater and my full-charge GOM valued drop to around 70 miles.

Yeah, I was rather suspicious when the used Spark I recently bought had *exactly* the EPA range of 82 miles at the dealer (I think that it is possible to 'reset' to factory, and was worried that the seller had done exactly that to hide a bad main battery). I checked with Torque and the battery was in pretty good shape, and since I have mostly been driving it around town (very little freeway), the 'guestimate' range shown on the console is slowly creeping upwards. The max I ever saw in my 2016 was 115 miles on a beautiful June day, about 74 degrees, right after an afternoon full charge (which I rarely did).

 

[NORTON]

....right after an afternoon full charge (which I rarely did).

But what about allowing the BMS to do its house keeping? I believe that takes place after the 'full charge'.
BMS 'balances' the cell voltages.

But now that I say that,,, how does a Bolt or Leaf or Tesla handle BMS duties when the charge is limited to 80% SOC or the 'Hilltop' setting on the Bolt?

 

[user 1323]

there's a 2014 2LT with fast charging option and about 50K miles in great condition. seller says charging cuts-off/stops when it reaches 85 mile range. i can get it for $6800, or pay a few thousand more for a 2015/16 with about half the mileage, all other things being equal... what would you do?

Ive heard good things about the 2014 and with a good battery you might be in good shape for that price, and just a matter of personal preference if the interior and suspension are good. I wanted a very low mileage and newest year car because my used car experience has been mixed. The spark seemed like the absolite best deal for both age and miles out there on any car, not just electric.

 

[SparkE]

....right after an afternoon full charge (which I rarely did).

But what about allowing the BMS to do its house keeping? I believe that takes place after the 'full charge'.
BMS 'balances' the cell voltages.

But now that I say that,,, how does a Bolt or Leaf or Tesla handle BMS duties when the charge is limited to 80% SOC or the 'Hilltop' setting on the Bolt?

1) I would (purposefully) fill the car up to "full" about once every 6-8 weeks (and leave it plugged in for at least an hour afterwards) so that the car could "top balance" the batteries. I figured that was often enough (since in 2 years I only went under 10 miles range ONCE). To me, that means 'rarely'. (I have already done by 'full charge' for the months of Jan and Feb ...)

2) The Bolt, when using the 'Hilltop' setting, balances at 'full' (which just happens to be at/around 88-89% of full-full ). Basically, 'full' means "when the battery hits a certain voltage that we programmed into the vehicle". When on hilltop, the voltage is simply lower - it still balances the voltage across all cells, just at a lower voltage point. It would probably be a good idea to fill to 'full' 2-4 times a year, but ... Remember that even at 'full', the cells aren't being filled to their theoretical/design max - a 'buffer' is reserved at the top to help with battery longevity. With 'hilltop', that buffer is simply larger.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Note: the full-charge GOM mileage value is very dependent on how the car has been driven and driving conditions. I see GOM values of 95 to 100 miles in late spring through early fall. In winter, I use the heater and my full-charge GOM valued drop to around 70 miles.

Yeah, I was rather suspicious when the used Spark I recently bought had *exactly* the EPA range of 82 miles at the dealer (I think that it is possible to 'reset' to factory, and was worried that the seller had done exactly that to hide a bad main battery). I checked with Torque and the battery was in pretty good shape, and since I have mostly been driving it around town (very little freeway), the 'guestimate' range shown on the console is slowly creeping upwards. The max I ever saw in my 2016 was 115 miles on a beautiful June day, about 74 degrees, right after an afternoon full charge (which I rarely did).

I have seen the same thing. Now I just estimate my range by using a value of 5 mi/kWh and multiply it times the battery capacity as measured using TorquePro. In the summer I see 6 - 6.5 mi/kWh - sometimes higher depending on how much I use the AC. In the winter I see 4-5 mi/kWh - sometimes lower - depending on how cold it is and how much I use the heater. This morning, after a cold morning start and using the heater, and a short 4-mile trip, I was at 4 mi/kWh in my 2014 Spark EV. My current measured battery capacity is 16.5 kWh which, at 4 mi/kWh, results in an estimated range of 66 miles. Now, I pay the most attention to my TorquePro measured battery capacity and the rate of degradation.

If you really want to have some fun, get on the freeway and draft a "big rig" for 10 miles or more. I have seen my miles / kWh go as high as 10! This does wonders for the GOM range! :lol:

 

[MoldyWalnuts]

thank you for your help Gentlemen, i am now a proud owner of a silver 2016 Spark EV 2LT with 46K miles and fast charge option bought today, 3/14/19, from MK Smith Chevrolet in Chino (SoCal) for $8500 OTD, slow - 120V charging in the garage right now. the car was originally leased from this dealer in August of 2018 by the first and only owner, which makes it about 2.5 years old. i was going for a fresher battery vs. low mileage and i think i found a good deal. also, i considered the GM warranty on main battery of 8yrs/100K miles and it's half way there so... please let me know your thoughts on my purchase. thank you

two things i didn't expect, i has no backup camera and came with just one key fob... other than that, I'M IN LOVE

 

[NORTON]

..... please let me know your thoughts on my purchase. thank you

... and came with just one key fob... other than that, I'M IN LOVE

Those dogs. You should have held the line for 2 key Fobs before buying it. Oh well, too late now. They won't do the right thing, I'm sure.

Do you know about selecting 12A L1 charging at each shut down? The default is 8A.

I have a Garmin DriveAssist with a built-in Dashcam and the optional Back up camera. The backup camera only needs a reverse lamp input and a ground. It comes on really fast! I have the 15 DCFC stations in my metro area saved to it.
It's also fun to watch distance to destination vs. GOM when cutting it close.
On one long cold airport run I had to turn down the heat and slow down and watch those numbers trend in my favor!

 

[MoldyWalnuts]

thanks, i know about 12/8amp option. i asked for the 2nd key fob but the sales lady said it came with just one. i thought that 2LT optioned models came with a backup camera, oh well. kind of hard to get used to not having one after driving with one for so long. i charged it overnight with 120V, unplugged the cord at the car without unlocking it first and the alarm sounded. that must be the anti-theft feature. have to remember to unlock it before unplugging. one thing to note, the 120V chord was never used on this vehicle as it was still tightly wrapped, factory rubber-banded and untouched. the previous owner must have only fast charged it, hence the higher mileage. i don't think it's necessarily a good thing for the battery.

my concern with the higher mileage was the suspension and overall feel of the car but this one feels solid and drives like it was on rails. i also checked the rubber CV boots on the front and they were in great condition as well. overall it's in excellent shape and must have been mostly highway driven to get to such high mileage in just two and a half years. time will tell...