Questions and Data tracking

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (January.) 01/08/20
Previous Charge to 100% was 97 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 92 miles
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.2000008. This charge to 100% and the kWh went down to 16.03 kWh (odometer is at 16,905). The battery was at (unknown)F for this reading. The average was 5.1 mi/kWh this past month over 418.4 miles.

Additional readings due to fully charging for longer trips:
On 12/14/19 I fully charged to 95 miles and 16.17kWh. On 12/20/19 I fully charged to 81 miles and 16.13kWh. On 1/11/2020 I fully charged to 92 miles and 15.97kWh

Temperatures were mild in December and beginning of January with a couple weeks dipping below freezing but not much driving during this time.

Fuel is $2.39/ gallon here now and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 142.9 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

171.87 MPGe (1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh)

 

[Kermit]

.... The battery was conditioned and was at 57.2F for this reading. ....

What does this mean?
I understand you can see battery temp in the Torque app.

Good catch. That was a carry over from the previous post since it was preconditioned before taking the mileage reading. The temperature from this point forward will be from the Torque app. Any of the shorter kWh (00.00kWh) readings are taken from EngineLink for simplicity as I only use the Android for the car and I have the iPhone every day.

At this point my car has lost 0.2967kWh over 4,205 miles. The real data point will come in February which will mark the 1 year anniversary of ownership.

 

[NORTON]

...Good catch. That was a carry over from the previous post since it was preconditioned before taking the mileage reading. ....

The way I understand it, You can 'Precondition' the cabin before driving off, from the key fob or app. It will heat or cool the cabin as required.
While plugged in it will use EVSE power. When not plugged in it will show up on the energy page as usage.

The HV battery pack is 'conditioned' which mean the TMS is heating or cooling the pack as required.
When plugged in, it is done in the background you can't tell how much power was used while the pack was charging.
Once the pack is at 100% SOC you can see TMS cycle on and off as required if you are on a networked L2 or your home EVSE logs it.
I saw my car's TMS cycling once or twice a day while plugged in at the airport for days in the winter, a while ago.

Side note: Yesterday my car was topped up at a public L2 around 11:30 AM and I was a good EV owner and moved it.
When I left work at 7:30PM, (long day...) after about 4-5 miles I saw on the energy page: 5% 'drive power (or whatever it's called)', 3% Heating and 2% Battery Conditioning. And I had the cabin heater working at 100% on the 'Climate Control' page.
I don't like seeing Battery Conditioning showing up while driving.
To me that means my pack was out of the happy Temp range for the first part of my commute....
So,,,, today when it's even colder, I'm plugged in at work using my L1 @ 12A. Slow, but it will keep the battery in the happy Temp range all day long!

 

[Kermit]

I've found that while charging the car it will keep the battery just warm enough to charge efficiently (2C / 35.6F) but during a remote start it will warm the battery up to a higher temperature (12C / 53.6F) OR when it's close to the end of it's charge cycle to 100%.

As far as cooling goes the battery begins actively cooling with the A/C around 28-29C / 82.4-84.2F.

I do not have a networked connection so my tracking is done when I open the app and take a photo.
Do you know of a way to make a non-data logging charger into one that does? I have a Kill-A-Watt but don't use it on the charger currently.
I've seen Torque Pro also logs but I have not sifted through all that data.

 

[NORTON]

...Do you know of a way to make a non-data logging charger into one that does? ...

JuiceBox had a small wifi adapter that went between the J1772 charge handle and the car, but I just went looking for it and they decided not to produce it.

You can buy a cheapo kWh meter that can be easily installed at your 240V outlet, but it is just a totalizer for kWh and not anything fancy, no time of day data.
I have a similar one mounted in my JuiceBox kit built L2 EVSE: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0828KCRFQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0828KCRFQ&pd_rd_w=UqOn6&pf_rd_p=45a72588-80f7-4414-9851-786f6c16d42b&pd_rd_wg=0c8fL&pf_rd_r=Y64K1A26EFM8ZAR7E1W6&pd_rd_r=83d65f97-463d-4aba-9547-fca0e0c152dd&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSE9MOEdRWTdGRFFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzAyNjM4MjZRMlgxN0xKTVJOWCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDcwOTY1MUhTUEI0SU1VWE5HTyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I really don't use it much. I may reset it at the beginning of my plug in season and come up with a dollar amount in the spring and think, 'chit....' :roll:

 

[RSC]

February readings:

Date.......... Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4

Major drop this month.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

February readings:

Date.......... Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4

Major drop this month.

Note that your capacity numbers peak in the hot months and drop in the cold months. I see the exact same thing. I show 15.6 kWh at 21428 miles on my 2016 Spark EV. Now, at 28304 miles, it has dropped to 14.7 kWh.

 

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (February.) 02/09/20
Previous Charge to 100% was 92 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 86 miles
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.03. This charge to 100% and the kWh went down to 15.80 kWh (odometer is at 17,314).
The average was 5.2 mi/kWh this past month over 408.4 miles.

I will just display my data like RSC has been as it seems to tell the story with less typing.

Date - Odometer - kWh - Full charge range
02/14/19 12464 16.33000 81
03/01/19 12700 16.26670 98
04/23/19 13316 16.20000 108
05/21/19 13692 16.03333 107
06/17/19 14008 16.03333 96
07/12/19 14291 16.29999 93
08/13/19 14827 16.56666 92
09/12/19 15279 16.56666 99
10/09/19 15771 16.73333 108
11/15/19 16293 16.36666 88* (After full preconditioning cycle)
12/09/19 16485 16.20000 97
01/08/20 16905 16.03000 92
02/09/20 17314 15.80000 86

This shows a -0.53kWh capacity loss after 4,850 miles when comparing February to February.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Data from this month's 100% charge (February.) 02/09/20
Previous Charge to 100% was 92 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 86 miles
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.03. This charge to 100% and the kWh went down to 15.80 kWh (odometer is at 17,314).
The average was 5.2 mi/kWh this past month over 408.4 miles.

I will just display my data like RSC has been as it seems to tell the story with less typing.

Date - Odometer - kWh - Full charge range
02/14/19 12464 16.33000 81
03/01/19 12700 16.26670 98
04/23/19 13316 16.20000 108
05/21/19 13692 16.03333 107
06/17/19 14008 16.03333 96
07/12/19 14291 16.29999 93
08/13/19 14827 16.56666 92
09/12/19 15279 16.56666 99
10/09/19 15771 16.73333 108
11/15/19 16293 16.36666 88* (After full preconditioning cycle)
12/09/19 16485 16.20000 97
01/08/20 16905 16.03000 92
02/09/20 17314 15.80000 86

This shows a -0.53kWh capacity loss after 4,850 miles when comparing February to February.

Good information. Thanks!
YOUR 2016 .... 9151 miles for every 1.0 kWh drop in battery capacity. My 2016 …. a 1.2 kWh drop in battery capacity over 12,174 miles = 10145 miles per kWh drop in battery capacity. This is over the same calendar time as yours.

 

[Kermit]

We had a couple cold of days in the forecast so I left my car unplugged so I could the battery temperature. The battery temperature had gotten down to 32F (0C). I plugged it in to see if the battery would heat before charging. It did heat for about 7 minutes to get the temperature up to 33.8F (1C) before charging. It only used about 670 watts to heat the battery but it did draw down the battery voltage as well during this time.

I also noticed at my last 100% charge the battery heat was off and on as it was fully charged and presumably balancing the cells. When I unlocked the doors it also turned the battery heat on. when the battery was fully charged.

 

[canspark]

Beginning and current data points from a BC, Canada 2016 Spark EV purchased July 2019 (distances converted from kilometres)

2019-08-01 : 16.63 kWh: 19709 miles/31720 km
2020-02-17 : 15.7 kWh : 24570 miles/39543 km

= 0.93 kWh/7823 km or 4861 miles

I calculated 1 kWh/5257 miles.

Charged almost always with level 1, a handful of level 2, and a couple of DC level 3.

If this rate continues it looks like the Spark will be about 10.9 kWh in 2024. I think this will be less than the warranty?

 

[Kermit]

It's hard to tell if the battery degradation is linear or if it will lose less capacity with age. I have not been keeping track of it for more than a year so I can't tell if that is true or not.

Your degradation per miles/km may be skewed because your data points were taken at different times of year.
If you notice my capacity went up from May through October then it got colder and it began dropping.
I think checking the capacity degradation would be best comparing year to year (i.e. February to February) to get a more accurate decrease per mile/km.

If you continue to post your data we can all track it together to get a better picture of how fast the cars battery loses capacity.

 

[canspark]

Thanks Kermit.
Here’s my full set - Aug 1, 2019 is the kilometres driving home from the dealer. Data is via an ODB Bluetooth adapter + EngineLink iOS

2019-08-01 31720 16.63
2019-09-03 33100 16.57
2019-09-14 33568 16.53
2019-09-26 34016 16.43
2019-11-12 34689 16.4
2019-11-25 35012 16.33
2019-12-04 36900 16.07
2019-12-30 37800 15.93
2020-02-01 38933 15.73
2020-02-17 39543 15.7

 

[RSC]

March readings:

Date.......... Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2

Still dropping, even though it seemed like a warm February.

 

[Kermit]

Date - Odometer - kWh - Full charge range
02/14/19 12464 16.33000 81
03/01/19 12700 16.26670 98
04/23/19 13316 16.20000 108
05/21/19 13692 16.03333 107
06/17/19 14008 16.03333 96
07/12/19 14291 16.29999 93
08/13/19 14827 16.56666 92
09/12/19 15279 16.56666 99
10/09/19 15771 16.73333 108
11/15/19 16293 16.36666 88* (After full preconditioning cycle)
12/09/19 16485 16.20000 97
01/08/20 16905 16.03000 92
02/09/20 17314 15.80000 86
03/04/20 17647 15.80000 96

This shows a -0.47kWh capacity loss over 4,947 miles when comparing March to March.

 

[RSC]

April readings:

Date.......... Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2

Not many miles last month, what with social distancing.

 

[Kermit]

Date - Odometer - kWh - Full charge range
02/14/19 12464 16.33000 81
03/01/19 12700 16.26670 98
04/23/19 13316 16.20000 108
05/21/19 13692 16.03333 107
06/17/19 14008 16.03333 96
07/12/19 14291 16.29999 93
08/13/19 14827 16.56666 92
09/12/19 15279 16.56666 99
10/09/19 15771 16.73333 108
11/15/19 16293 16.36666 88* (After full preconditioning cycle)
12/09/19 16485 16.20000 97
01/08/20 16905 16.03000 92
02/09/20 17314 15.80000 86
03/04/20 17647 15.80000 96

This shows a -0.47kWh capacity loss over 4,947 miles when comparing March to March.

I am not going to charge this month. I have been working from home and the state of charge is between 50-60% and I want to keep it there until I am commuting again. I did check the capacity and it said 15.53% but it has not been fully charge since the 3/04/20 charge.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Date - Odometer - kWh - Full charge range
02/14/19 12464 16.33000 81
03/01/19 12700 16.26670 98
04/23/19 13316 16.20000 108
05/21/19 13692 16.03333 107
06/17/19 14008 16.03333 96
07/12/19 14291 16.29999 93
08/13/19 14827 16.56666 92
09/12/19 15279 16.56666 99
10/09/19 15771 16.73333 108
11/15/19 16293 16.36666 88* (After full preconditioning cycle)
12/09/19 16485 16.20000 97
01/08/20 16905 16.03000 92
02/09/20 17314 15.80000 86
03/04/20 17647 15.80000 96

This shows a -0.47kWh capacity loss over 4,947 miles when comparing March to March.

I am not going to charge this month. I have been working from home and the state of charge is between 50-60% and I want to keep it there until I am commuting again. I did check the capacity and it said 15.53% but it has not been fully charge since the 3/04/20 charge.

This is very consistent with the degradation I am seeing on my 2016 - it dropped 1.0 kWh in 10,624 miles.

 

[Kermit]

It was interesting to see the capacity dropped even though it was not charged to 100%. We shall see what it does as it warms up.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

It was interesting to see the capacity dropped even though it was not charged to 100%. We shall see what it does as it warms up.

I usually see a 0.3 to 0.4 kWh rise as we go into summer and, as we head for winter, it drops again and goes lower. The linear trendline on my graph projects I will be at 11.4 kWh when I have 60k miles on the ODO. I currently have 30k on my 2016 and my battery capacity is 14.5 kWh. I estimate my battery capacity will continue to drop to 14 kWh at 35k miles, 13 kWh at 45k miles, 12 kWh at 55k miles and 11 kWh at 65k miles. If I drop below 11.4 kWh before August 2024, I will be visiting the dealer to discuss a HV battery warranty claim.