Spark EV - An affordable electric racecar (my build thread)

[oilerlord]

Cool thread. "Adding lightness" to an EV. Love it. I dig the look of the lowered car. Do you think that reduced the car's drag a bit?

Looking forward to see pictures of the back seats removed too. I might do that as I'd rarely have a use for them but what I could use is the extra cargo space. Is there carpeting under the back seats?

 

[Nashco]

Hey do you know if Rota Slipstreams have any difference in the spoke thickness or curve compared to the Desmond Regamaster Evo Brights you used that would affect fitment on the Spark EV ? And I see the Rotas in 15x6.5 with 40mm backspacing thats about .19 of an inch less, would this work out better for not using spacers in the front and work both front & rear? Im aware of the weight difference between the 2 wheels but would like to keep it simple, id be happy with the 195 tire all around if you think that would help.

They look practically identical in person; I had the opportunity to compare side by side with a competitor at a local autocross running the knock off Rotas (I didn't actually bolt them up, just visual comparison). The 40mm backspacing *might* work, but you may run into problems in the rear depending on which tires you use. If you're running relatively narrow tires (close to stock size), this may not be a problem.

I only got the Regamaster Evo because of the weight, the spoke style actually causes some headaches because they have basically no hump in them for caliper clearance. I've seriously contemplated getting these 16x6.5 +45mm Rota Slipstreams:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130765130613

...and mounting some low profile tires (something like a 195/40 or 195/45) just because I think it would look cool and be fun for local cruising. With that said, I haven't committed because I'd still want my stock wheels and tires when efficiency counts (road trips), and I have my race tires and wheels when performance counts (racing), and it's hard to justify a third set of wheels and tires laying around.

Rota also makes a different styled wheel (Circuit 10) that is a 15x6.5 +45 that appears to have more caliper clearance, which I think would be a bolt on without any clearance issues at all and would allow square wheels and tires all around. They're not very light or aerodynamic, but if you just want a square combination with different styling, it's another one to consider.

Ebay is pretty easy to search by wheel diameter, offset, width, bolt pattern, etc. to help find other options (new and used).

Bryce

 

[refinerysmells]

Thanks for the info those wheels look killer on your car, the polished contrast well with the white spark and other chrome on your car! I dig the simple look of the slipstreams kinda timeless for compact cars, like what toque thrust wheels do for older cars. My car is blue but I'm thinking flat black slipstreams for $440 free shipping will buff it out, also gonna get around to using SEM trim black for de chroming some exterior parts. Its importing to me for the light weight rims and light tires not just looks I would like to get the real Desmond's to save the extra 3lbs at each rim but its an extra grand. I would chuck the oem stuff permanently in hopes that lost rotating weight would make up lost range with a less sticky treadware tire and maybe some tuner lugs. Wonder if the weight savings with your race set up but not so sticky tire would still get same or better range then stock wheels & tires? Another option guess I could use 40mm offset on the front and 45mm on back wheels and just not be able to rotate tires like the factory set up.

 

[Nashco]

I would chuck the oem stuff permanently in hopes that lost rotating weight would make up lost range with a less sticky treadware tire and maybe some tuner lugs. Wonder if the weight savings with your race set up but not so sticky tire would still get same or better range then stock wheels & tires? Another option guess I could use 40mm offset on the front and 45mm on back wheels and just not be able to rotate tires like the factory set up.

I don't see why you'd go for different offsets instead of matching (45mm) offset with a ~5-7mm spacer up front. That still allows tire rotations and adequate clearance front and rear with enough exposed threads on the stock front studs with most aftermarket wheels. If you have a reason, go for it, but I did a LOT of test fitting, measurements, and research before landing where I'm at with my wheels and ride height, so I'd caution you to follow my lead unless you have good reason to do otherwise. If you're at stock ride height and tire sizes, you certainly have a bit more wiggle room.

You won't get any range improvements with any other tires, no matter how light or aerodynamic your wheels are. In my experience, the only tire with anywhere close to the rolling resistance of our factory tires is the tiny donuts on the original Insight (Bridgestone RE92 165/65R14). Rotating weight is much lower impact on efficiency than rolling resistance, even in stop and go driving. Of course, if you never need your full battery range this is a moot point. In my case, I enjoy having maximum range when I'm not racing.

Bryce

 

[refinerysmells]

Cool makes sense thanks again for the info! I think your trial and testing solves it for me as I would like to keep the lowering option open with best tire clearances in the future for my car. I hope someday we can also have some kind of HP tuners programer setup for these little hot rods.

 

[NORTON]

...I hope someday we can also have some kind of HP tuners programer setup for these little hot rods.

I'm all for bigger, stickier tires! What about the post here of a guy using 16" wheels and (?) 205 tires? Low profile of course.
That's what this little Hot Rod lacks: Traction.

But "HP tuners" ? Say What? 400 ft/lb and ~140 HP isn't enough??
It has a hard time using that power now!

You want to hack the SW and overdrive the inverter, battery and drive unit? Go for it. You will void your warranty, if it is even possible.
This isn't a ricer. It's a modern EV.

 

[oilerlord]

I'm all for bigger, stickier tires! What about the post here of a guy using 16" wheels and (?) 205 tires? Low profile of course.
That's what this little Hot Rod lacks: Traction.

But "HP tuners" ? Say What? 400 ft/lb and ~140 HP isn't enough??
It has a hard time using that power now!

You want to hack the SW and overdrive the inverter, battery and drive unit? Go for it. You will void your warranty, if it is even possible.
This isn't a ricer. It's a modern EV.

I did a Malone tune to my Jetta Sportwagen. Went from 140hp/236tq to ~180hp/300tq. Transformed it into a different car but even with stickier tires, it's difficult to get that power to the road without roasting the front tires. 400ft-lb is a crazy amount of twist on such a light car.

That said, burnouts were more fun when I was 18. The biggest reason I did the tune was the ~15% improvement in fuel economy, and never having to replace the car's $2000 DPF because it was removed as part of the tuning. For me, the fun in driving the Spark EV will be gaming the car's efficiency and charging it in when the sun's shining. :mrgreen:

 

[refinerysmells]

You will void your warranty, if it is even possible.
This isn't a ricer. It's a modern EV

This car will some times spin tires & some times not when fully charged. Its not out of control by any means yet, my BMW S100RR can be at times but its all up to the driver. Still some of us like more power doesn't mean you have to use it all the time and waste energy, just at your disposal would be nice.
You keep it stock I'm not afraid to void my warranty and its nice to learn more about (possible) modifications. The Spark EV racing/aftermarket could be vary cool for this car! HP tuners and those alike is more useful then just ricer status,Spark EV motor swaps turing off unneeded crap/sensors in turn could be a great diagnostic tool for us owners once the precious warranty is gone. Also in the event these little cars get crashed equals a recycling opportunity and it would open up more doors for swapping this Spark ev motor in other cars/trucks. Besides my local Chevy dealer would be a joke to service this car anyway. Its just why you don't see these cars much outside where there sold theres a lack of knowledge about them. So lets modify and learn.

 

[refinerysmells]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xKL0yj8C4U

 

[mitechman47]

Yes, I also tried to disconnect the "noise maker" under the dash- not only does it throw a code but you can no longer pre-warm it up- it does drive ok though.
Also for sticky tires I did the following;
Federal 595 rs-r 195/50/15 up front and 205/50/15 at the rear on stock rims.
Traction problems from a stop have been eliminated...totally..but....0-60 was not improved as much as I had hoped- it is consistent now though. The issue is the programming of the Torque maps- you will notice, we are very quick from 30 to 50mph but sluggish from 0-30 meaning its programmed for slippery stock energy saving tires not sticky ones. Want to see the difference with less torque management? Yes it actually accelerates faster in reverse!
Also the question is how much did it effect overall range? much less than using the heater in the winter- overall I would say on a 32 mile round trip to work and back home is maybe 3-5 miles but thats driving 80 mph on the highway but the other day driving errands at lower speeds I noticed not much difference- its mostly your driving style that effects range.
The biggest improvement...No more loose end feeling at high speed...now its stable and drives like its on rails! So much fun to drive now!
I am also trying HPTuners- it can read it but I cant get any farther than that now...I'm working on it...Will keep you posted.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Yes, I also tried to disconnect the "noise maker" under the dash- not only does it throw a code but you can no longer pre-warm it up- it does drive ok though.

I didn't want to pollute Bryce's thread on his racecar (cool project!), so I made another one for fake noise maker here. Maybe we can discuss there until solution is found, then post the solution here so this thread can be for racecar specific discussion?

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4436

I saw warning lights, but they went away after I reconnected the box.

 

[mitechman47]

Update on the tires (Federal 595 rs-r 195/50/15 up front and 205/50/15 at the rear on stock rims). Great tires- still have not broken them loose on any turn- the near 50/50 weight and low center of gravity really makes it fun around corners. Still rock solid all the way to 90 mph speed limiter. Range is not so good- been cold here in Michigan, since I have had my car, even with stock tires I have never seen more than 72mi range- usually around 66. My problem with range is living here in the country, every road is at least 50mph and everyone drives 80+ on the highway on the way to work.
Averaging 3.5kw per mile- I have also remembered why I hate front wheel drive- weight transfer off the drive wheels when accelerating. The federal tires will hookup, as I stated earlier, now its the torque management-
Update with HPTuners- they are currently working on programming- its taking longer than planned as the ECU programming is more complex than the Volt- still waiting to see if they come through.
Some people were wondering why mess with the ECU- well some of us like to modify our cars, electric or gas, its makes them unique and much more fun to drive. If I wanted to be boring I would drive a Prius- cant stand the CVT transmissions. The instant power of electric cant be beat!
Also, those who say you can not modify a hybrid/electric car, your wrong- There is programming available for the first gen Volt, the 0-60 drops down to the upper 5 seconds, this program has been around for years and have yet to hear of anyone blowing up their engine/electronics/batteries.
Electric cars are the future- just a matter of time before battery technology further improves to give good range/affordability. Look at the recent release of the Tesla model 3- almost 200k orders placed in the first day without a test drive!

 

[NORTON]

>...Some people were wondering why mess with the ECU- well some of us like to modify our cars, electric or gas, ..
>>...There is programming available for the first gen Volt, the 0-60 drops down to the upper 5 seconds, this program has been around for years ....
>>>...Look at the recent release of the Tesla model 3- almost 200k orders placed in the first day without a test drive!

>So what you gonna do, turn it way up? "This one has 11. That's better than 10", , Spinal Tap.
Why not turn it up to 15? And a top speed of 140 mph? We also know that Electric Motors do not have a 'Red Line RPM' either, right?
>>None of that has been proven. In fact one of those 'tuners' has stopped posting anything. I follow this subject on that forum.
>>>What does this cult-ish behavior have to do with anything?
Can any of those 'Depositors' even name 3 other BEV's?
How, technically, is the T3 different than the Chevy Bolt? Except, one of them has an ETA.

Good info on the tires. Thanks !

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Do you have any videos of your Spark EV racing? What are some stats on the races compared to other cars?

 

[EldRitch]

A couple of questions:

- What would it do for, or to, the car for enthusiastic road/street use to install the Megan Racing front coilovers, while leaving the rear alone? Would that upset the handing too drastically?

- Got anything for us on the rear seat delete project? I'd really be ready to for that. I love the idea of a cargo area with three doors...

 

[NORTON]

...
- Got anything for us on the rear seat delete project? I'd really be ready to for that. I love the idea of a cargo area with three doors...

So just remove the rear seats, top and bottom!!

I know what you mean about cargo space. My car has been driven 90% of the time with the rear seats down and a large custom cut piece of carpet covering the whole area.
I like the idea of being able to move the carpet and put the rear seats up if needed.

The car has less space to heat or cool, (and it's quieter), with the rear seats up and the hatch cover in place.

 

[EldRitch]

A guy in the Volvo C30 forum posted his solution, which was a cover that went in above the rear seats all the way to their front edge, level with the bottom of the rear windows, and enclosed what became a real covered trunk.

As to noise from the back, a surprising amount of noise gets into a car through taillights and such. You can reduce it noticeably if you line the underside of the hatch cover with a scrap of carpet, and put in a real carpet mat to replace the OEM flannel trunk mat. Pix of mine tomorrow.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

How much weight would seats and other "stuff" remove? Will they amount to 200 lb? According to calculations, 200 lb less with 2015/2016 should result in 0-60 MPH time of about 6.8 seconds. That might be comparable or even quicker than Bolt. Remove 1000 lb, and it could result in under 5 seconds 0-60 time! Assuming you get stickier tires, that is.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/06/sparkev-performance-analysis.html

 

[Zoomit]

How much weight would seats and other "stuff" remove?

Rear seats and various carpets might be 50 lbs on the high end. Definitely not worth it, IMHO.

 

[Nashco]

I included info on weight reduction earlier in this thread:

http://mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3656&p=14221#p14221

Rear seats, tire pump, emergency charger, floor mats, etc. add up to nearly 100 pounds. If you pull it all out, the car is noticeably louder, but also noticeably quicker and has much more interior volume available for stuff.

A couple of questions:

- What would it do for, or to, the car for enthusiastic road/street use to install the Megan Racing front coilovers, while leaving the rear alone? Would that upset the handing too drastically?

- Got anything for us on the rear seat delete project? I'd really be ready to for that. I love the idea of a cargo area with three doors...

I see no benefit in installing the Megan setup in front unless you're also modifying the rear.

I'll try to get pictures of my rear seat delete setup soon, with measurements of the cargo floor I built. I'm super short on time lately, so commentary will be limited, I'll let the pictures do the talking. I also drilled a few holes into the rear plastics in strategic spots so I can pull the rear speaker pods with a screwdriver in a few minutes (instead of disassembling half of the car!). This makes the rear hatch opening far more usable...enough so that I'm confused why the factory didn't include these access holes for service reasons.

Bryce