Spark or Bolt ?

[DWSG]

Hello,

Thanks for all the good info, I’m deciding whether to get a spark or used bolt and have some questions to confirm my logic on the decision

I live on north side of Lake Tahoe and currently own a 2007 Prius with 165 k miles. Battery test has it at 70% original capacity so battery should last a couple more years at least.

My thought is the 70 mile range of spark would be enough for almost all of my driving and keep Prius for longer trips and snow driving. Driving need is 50 miles round trip to Carson city or south shore and 70-80 miles round trip to Reno.

I saw in a thread here that new spark battery is $4500 plus install but someone else posted it was $10,000. Has it been confirmed what replacement price is ? If I’m budgeting for ten years of use I’m assuming I will need a battery in 3-4 years if I got a 15 or 16 spark when battery range gets below the needed 50-70 miles.

If you add that on to used price it’s within $3-4,000 of a used bolt with over 200 miles range. With a bolt even if range losses are really bad 50% after five years I would still have enough range to do everything that I would use the car for.

Given the 200 mile range that would put 1 charge trips Sacramento or Bay Area in range so I would get a little more use out of it.

One thing I’m worried about is how much will range go down with mountain driving? Driving back from Reno is 4000’ climb on mt rose highway, slightly less from Carson.

Thanks for any input !

 

[RSC]

My Spark EV does everything I need it to do, but if I had to replace it today, I would probably get a used Bolt, since they don't seem to cost much more right now. A consideration is that the Bolt allows for Hilltop Reserve charging (or a settable level of charge on later models). This should reduce battery degradation a lot, and will allow more efficiency if you're starting out with a downhill drive, as I usually do.

As far as range going down with mountain driving, it's a lot when driving uphill. I can't quantify that off the top of my head, but I often drive up 1000 feet and it's really noticeable. 4000 feet would be a big deal. You could try playing around with A Better Route Planner and see what it comes up with. I've really haven't used it and don't know how good the numbers are. I just noticed today that the Spark EV is an optional selection, along with the Bolt.

Just for me though, I think that things will be changing a lot in the EV world and driving my Spark EV allows me to drive electric without much invested while I wait to see how things play out.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

With all due respect, anyone buying a Spark EV over a Bolt EV, who is not on a REALLY tight budget, is a fool, or has very particular needs/tastes.

 

[DWSG]

My Spark EV does everything I need it to do, but if I had to replace it today, I would probably get a used Bolt, since they don't seem to cost much more right now. A consideration is that the Bolt allows for Hilltop Reserve charging (or a settable level of charge on later models). This should reduce battery degradation a lot, and will allow more efficiency if you're starting out with a downhill drive, as I usually do.

As far as range going down with mountain driving, it's a lot when driving uphill. I can't quantify that off the top of my head, but I often drive up 1000 feet and it's really noticeable. 4000 feet would be a big deal. You could try playing around with A Better Route Planner and see what it comes up with. I've really haven't used it and don't know how good the numbers are. I just noticed today that the Spark EV is an optional selection, along with the Bolt.

Just for me though, I think that things will be changing a lot in the EV world and driving my Spark EV allows me to drive electric without much invested while I wait to see how things play out.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, appreciate it.

Yes , part of the reason for thinking spark over bolt would be short term 4-5 years to not invest a lot then see what comes out in next few years and coincide with replacing the Prius.

Looks like new 2020 bolts are being sold for low 20s in a few places, so I’m tempted to go for the full new car.

There’s a 2016 spark at car max in Reno, I may take it for a drive and see how much juice it runs going up mt rose highway, but as you state the used bolt makes sense if in the 14-15k price level compared to a 7-8k spark considering everything.

 

[RSC]

I've given this a little more thought. It may not be noticeable in the Prius, but a second consideration is that in cold weather you are going to lose a lot of range. The Spark EV is not going to give you a lot of extra capacity to compensate. I live at about 2800 feet, so it doesn't get as cold where I am. If you are really going to drive to Reno or Carson City, the Bolt sounds like it would probably work out better.

 

[Engineear]

Enjoy my 2015 Spark but would lean more toward the Bolt. Not sure how the heater is though...must be better than in the no heat Spark.

Bigger battery, less charging time, seating position...all pluses for me.

 

[Kermit]

The Spark EV is a compliance car that Chevy was forced to make. The Bolt is a more thought out production car. The Bolt will have more OEM and aftermarket parts support for longer due to the production numbers.
The Spark EV is made in South Korea and the Bolt is made in the USA. There is a noticeable build quality difference.
The Spark EV has no crash rating, the Bolt has a 5 star overall rating. (This alone would have pushed me towards a Bolt if they were more affordable when I purchased mine.)
The Bolt battery size reduces range anxiety.

 

[NORTON]

Looks like new 2020 bolts are being sold for low 20s in a few places, so I’m tempted to go for the full new car.

There’s a 2016 spark at car max in Reno, I may take it for a drive and see how much juice it runs going up mt rose highway, but as you state the used bolt makes sense if in the 14-15k price level compared to a 7-8k spark considering everything.

You said:
"My thought is the 70 mile range of spark would be enough for almost all of my driving and keep Prius for longer trips and snow driving. Driving need is 50 miles round trip to Carson city or south shore and 70-80 miles round trip to Reno."

This would probably not be possible in the winter when it's cold and there's slush on the roads. Summer no problem!
If this is always a round trip the elevation change is a wash out. Do you use apps to scout out L2's? Some may be free!
(Love the area! Road the Flume Trails many times!)

Getting a brand new Bolt might not be too bad right now because,,,, you know..... And having all the trial subscriptions and that warranty!!

I kept my '14 Spark EV and got a '17 Bolt Premier with all the bells/whistles and drove it home from LA to KC.
edit: We sold a '11 Prius Level 5, with the Advanced Tech Package, Blizzard Pearl. THE most expensive Prius that year!
Miss the Adaptive Cruise and the 'decent' Lane Keep Assist.

She drives the Bolt and I drive the Spark EV, but we swap every 3rd day or so because I have a Free Public L2 right next to my work. It's true. I'm cheaper than the average bear. :lol: But if you had a free gas station a 1/4 mile away and had to walk to it....??
Except in the dead of winter (now) I plug both in at home for TMS reasons. I have two 3.3kW L2's at home.

You could go All In on EV's and sell the Prius and get one of both (used).
The DCFC network is growing all the time! Kind of depends where you go on your road trips.

Oh, and make sure what ever you buy : Has the optional DCFC.

 

[ElDobro]

I have a Spark EV and a Bolt and each has its own purpose.

 

[SparkE]

Yeah, I've been considering buying a used Bolt, but my gasmobile still works fine, and I generally only use it for trips, and I'm cheap. It also has a PZEV rating (super-low-polluting gasmobile). I figure that when it is time to replace the gasmobile (I only drive it maybe 3k miles a year, so quite a while) there will be even more used 250+ mile EVs available - and hopefully several that have a fast-charge capability at least double the speed of the Bolt, so it would be an acceptable travel car for 600-mile trips. Maybe in 2025 I'll be able to pick up a used Tesla model 3 (long range) for $15k (which charges 3x faster than the Bolt, and a range of ~300 miles).

But my situation is different than the OPs. I already have a 2015 Spark and I bought it used well before any of the 200+ mile EVs were on the used market. And I had a gasmobile in great shape that has no problems and is low polluting for the highway trips. I just wanted an EV for 90% of my driving. And so I currently have no need for another car. It sounds like OP (sort of) needs another one soon. So I agree that today, if I were in his situation and could get a used Bolt for $13k-$15k OR a used Spark for $8k-$10k, I would go with the used Bolt. I agree that the range in the Spark is going to suck during the winter in Tahoe - you will lose 30-50% of your range. True in the Bolt as well, but going from 230 miles to 130 is much better than going from 85 miles to 50 miles.

PS: In the future (when the battery gets worse) you might want to consider looking into finding (an experienced!!) shop that will *rebuild* your Prius battery pack. (If the gas engine is still in good shape.) There's a growing 3rd party business in that area. They remove the pack, find the one (or three) cells that are much lower voltage than the others and then replace just those three, and voila you have a pack that is back to (maybe) 90% of original. Around here I think it costs around $1k.

edit : just saw that your Prius has 165k miles. uhhh, maybe you won't want to drop $1k into it when it has 200k miles ...

 

[RSC]

Yet another consideration that may apply living where you do is that the Spark EV doesn't have a lot of ground clearance. I don't have the figures, but from what I've observed, the Bolt is fairly good for an ordinary passenger car in that department.

I know this all sounds very negative for the Spark EV. The Spark EV just has to be in the right situation. I don't regret buying mine at the time I did and plan to hang on to it for now.

It would be interesting to hear what you decide to do and what your impressions are.

 

[DWSG]

Thanks for the replies everyone.. I’ve been on the hunt for a used 2017 bolt, there are a lot of good deals in LA area but not as good in nor cal and Reno area places won’t match Cali dealer prices , I tried to buy one, but then went through all the intro stuff with the dealer and he went “oh yeah we install a $795 alarm on all our cars “ so I said no deal based on principal. I know dealers do that, but No way I’m buying a car 400 miles away when dealer starts off with a bait and switch by listing a price online that they aren’t willing to sell it for.

@sparkE , I’m on day 3 of a diy battery reconditioning of my Prius from a company called hybrid automotive who sells a kit of a charger, discharger and harness that attaches to hv battery . Same thing the refurbisher people do. Hopefully it works

 

[DWSG]

Has anyone dealt with la auto exchange or their sister companies (it looks like there is an umbrella company with like 5 different dealer names in la area ) or plug in autos in Pomona?

I drove a new 2020 bolt last week and thought it was awesome, the paddle shifter which increases regen so you don’t have to use brakes is pretty cool. Especially for mountain driving going downhill to be able to control speed better

Appears to be an active storm pattern next week or two so search is likely delayed

 

[SparkE]

@sparkE , I’m on day 3 of a diy battery reconditioning of my Prius from a company called hybrid automotive who sells a kit of a charger, discharger and harness that attaches to hv battery . Same thing the refurbisher people do. Hopefully it works

Well, the "std", "traditional" Priuses had NiMH batteries. Some of the plug-in Priuses had NiMH and some had Li-Ion. The NiMH can benefit from a "recondition" cycling, the Li-Ion not so much. All that kit does is cycle the battery through several charge-discharge cycles. The other thing that the "refurbishers" (mechanics) do is identify any weak cells (lower capacity) and swap those out with higher capacity cells (which involves disassembling part of the car and at least part of the battery unit). The battery is only as good as the weakest cell. You should be able to look at the cell voltages and see if they are all the same using an OBD dongle/reader and an app on your cell phone. If they are all the same voltage when half empty or empty, then you don't have a weak cell. If you have a traditional Prius hybrid, you can drain the batteries by just getting on a road that allows you to drive 35-40 mph without stopping, let the gas engine turn off and use the electricity in your hybrid batteries (~ 1.5 kWh) to maintain speed.

If your Prius isn't the "plug-in" type, then that kit should help quite a bit. Using it every 2000-4000 miles should keep your NiMH battery "as good as it can be" (which isn't going to be 100%, based on its age).

Oh, and any BEV should be put on a trickle charger (for the 12V 'accessory' battery) once a month or so to insure good health for the lead-acid battery that "boots" your car's computer and runs all the accessories. Unless you routinely drive over an hour a day.