What is being offered at end of lease?

[SparkE]

No, again you are pretending that the total capacity of the battery is important ( "C" rate)

Regardless of what YOU think is important, the industry and science consider C rate over anything else when it comes to charging and discharging rate. You can pretend other stuff's important, but the fact remains that C rate should be considered when discussing charging and discharging. In that, SparkEV is quicker than anything else in the world, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Talking about 10% at 120 kW (1.6 C rate) is meaningless. How many Tesla drivers charge from empty to 10% and leave on a regular basis? Hell, if you consider that, I can charge SparkEV with 2,000,000 kW of power to 0.0000000001% using static discharge. This is why time spent at the charger is relevant; very few Tesla spends 15 minutes at the charger while my average over hundreds of DCFC is 15 minutes. The reason for shorter time spent (aka, quick) is due to high C rate.

DCFC showed 398V at 122A, which is 48.6 kW (2.6C) at 80% (not 10%). If you're only seeing 46 kW, you must be using DCFC not capable of delivering peak capability of SparkEV. But even so, 46kW is 2.5C (or 2.2C for 2014), far quicker than any EV, including all Tesla.

The reason you (and I) only spend 15 minutes at the charger is because the range of the Spark EV is about 80 miles. A Tesla spends 30-45 minutes at the charger because its range is 230-330 miles, even though it is sucking up power at a higher rate (not % of battery, a higher kW rate)- often over 100 kW. "C" rate is one of the silliest ways to say "hey, my car charges faster than yours". It's all about how quickly the electrons flow into the battery. A Tesla starting at a 10% SoC will get more electricity than a Spark EV over the first 30 minutes (or 15 minutes), allowing it to drive further. Any other argument is just ... silly.

PS: I do not own a Tesla, I own a Spark EV - I am simply grounded in reality.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Again, you are confusing miles with charging, and making up your own metric for quick. I could claim Celsius is silly and that temperature should be measured in any subjective way I feel, but that's silly as seen by everyone else. Whether you find it silly or not, C is how it's measured. If SparkEV charged like Tesla we'd be spending 45 minutes at the charger, too. The reason why we spend so little time is due to high C rate.

Here's a fun fact; Tesla may charge at 1.6C to 10%, but they taper to 40 kW at 80%, C rate of only 0.47, at least the 85D I saw at Chademo. That's less than SparkEV's 48 kW at 80% even in terms of power, never mind the C rate. You might say "oh but Tesla added so many more miles", but not true; when he plugged in, he had over 70%.

I suspect this is a regular occurrence at Superchargers due to free charging. I often see free charging Leaf and i3 with over 80% and severely tapered plugged in for full 30 minutes, and I think similar occurs with many Tesla due to "lifetime free charging": tapered to hell yet still plug in. This may be one reason for many comments in plugshare of Tesla driver complaining about charging at 25 kW with Supercharger. While uninformed driver is a side issue of charging, I find it amusing that people boast about 120 kW while literally every Tesla charge far less due to taper.

Meanwhile, SparkEV will remain the quickest charging car in history for quite a while; there's nothing on the horizon to rival its charging rate.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Again, you are confusing miles with charging, and making up your own metric for quick. I could claim Celsius is silly and that temperature should be measured in any subjective way I feel, but that's silly as seen by everyone else. Whether you find it silly or not, C is how it's measured. If SparkEV charged like Tesla we'd be spending 45 minutes at the charger, too. The reason why we spend so little time is due to high C rate.

Here's a fun fact; Tesla may charge at 1.6C to 10%, but they taper to 40 kW at 80%, C rate of only 0.47, at least the 85D I saw at Chademo. That's less than SparkEV's 48 kW at 80% even in terms of power, never mind the C rate. You might say "oh but Tesla added so many more miles", but not true; when he plugged in, he had over 70%.

I suspect this is a regular occurrence at Superchargers due to free charging. I often see free charging Leaf and i3 with over 80% and severely tapered plugged in for full 30 minutes, and I think similar occurs with many Tesla due to "lifetime free charging": tapered to hell yet still plug in. This may be one reason for many comments in plugshare of Tesla driver complaining about charging at 25 kW with Supercharger. While uninformed driver is a side issue of charging, I find it amusing that people boast about 120 kW while literally every Tesla charge far less due to taper.

Meanwhile, SparkEV will remain the quickest charging car in history for quite a while; there's nothing on the horizon to rival its charging rate.

This has been an interesting discussion if not a bit confusing. When I plug in to charge my Spark EV, the screen on the EVgo DCFC gives me the current percentage remaining in the battery and the charging power in amps and volts. I am only interested in how fast I can charge and get back on the road. From 10% to 80% the charger delivers 100 amps at 395 volts. From 80% to 90% the charging current tapers off from 100 amps to 50 amps at 395 volts. Simple as that. My experience is it takes about 14 minutes to charge my Spark EV from 35% to 90% at the rate mentioned above. The ABB EVgo chargers are a bit quicker.

So, using the same EVgo DCFC, which vehicle, the 2017 Tesla Model S 60D or the 2015 Chevy Spark EV, starting with 5% remaining in the vehicle's battery, can add 50 miles of range more quickly?

2017 Tesla Model S 60D [60 kWh]
104 mpge [EPA]
32 kWh / 100 miles [16 kWh / 50 miles]

2015 Spark EV [18 kWh]
119 mpge [EPA]
28 kWh / 100 miles [14 kWh / 50 miles]

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Using the same charger, SparkEV would be quicker simply because SparkEV is much more efficient (more miles per kWh of energy).

But if Tesla is on Supercharger and SparkEV on ABB, Tesla can be quicker depending on state of charge of Tesla. Tesla begins the taper at 10% (or 20% for bigger battery). If Tesla started at low percent, it will charge quicker to add 50 miles of range, maybe 10 minutes vs SparkEV's 15 minutes. But if Tesla is in upper end (eg. more than 60% at plug-in), it may be longer than 15 minutes. Based on free charging Leafs and i3 and supercharger plugshare comments, I suspect many Tesla at supercharger are over 60% when they plugin.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Using the same charger, SparkEV would be quicker simply because SparkEV is much more efficient (more miles per kWh of energy).

But if Tesla is on Supercharger and SparkEV on ABB, Tesla can be quicker depending on state of charge of Tesla. Tesla begins the taper at 10% (or 20% for bigger battery). If Tesla started at low percent, it will charge quicker to add 50 miles of range, maybe 10 minutes vs SparkEV's 15 minutes. But if Tesla is in upper end (eg. more than 60% at plug-in), it may be longer than 15 minutes. Based on free charging Leafs and i3 and supercharger plugshare comments, I suspect many Tesla at supercharger are over 60% when they plugin.

Exactly! I love the fact that I can spend 15 minutes or less to charge my Spark EV to 90% and get back on the road. This has been working for me for 2.5 years. Yesterday, with myself and 2 other adults in the car, I took a 145 mile round trip and charged in less than 15 minutes at two different EVgo DCFC locations without any problems.

 

[CSW]

If you charge a Spark and a Tesla both for 15 minutes, you will end up with a lot more miles of range in the Tesla at the end of the 15 minutes. Tesla = faster.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

If you charge a Spark and a Tesla both for 15 minutes, you will end up with a lot more miles of range in the Tesla at the end of the 15 minutes. Tesla = faster.

Which charger are you using for the Spark EV and which charger are you using for the Tesla to reach your conclusion?

 

[CSW]

The DC quickchargers. EVgo or whoever for Spark, and the Tesla supers for the Tesla.

 

[GladstoneCoach]

The thing that's really confusing about all this charging rate BS is why it's on the "What is being offered at end of lease?" thread.
Your comments should be moved to a "Charging Rates" thread under the "Batteries & Charging" section.

Has anybody purchased their leased car from GM Financial? What did they offer and how were they to deal with?

 

[MrDRMorgan]

The thing that's really confusing about all this charging rate BS is why it's on the "What is being offered at end of lease?" thread.
Your comments should be moved to a "Charging Rates" thread under the "Batteries & Charging" section.

Has anybody purchased their leased car from GM Financial? What did they offer and how were they to deal with?

I agree. The charging debate needs to move Battery and Charging section and I will add further charging comments there.

There doesn't seem to be much info here regarding end-of-lease deals and I sure would like to see what deals are being offered. The lease on my 2015 Spark EV 2LT is with A-Car and will end in May of next year. Since I was not sure what end-of-lease deal I might be offered, I recently found and purchased a very low-mileage [6700 miles] 2016 Spark EV 2LT to replace my 2015. So far, I have driven it almost 1000 miles without any problems.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

Apologies to everyone for being an idiot. While my comments are true, it's no place to highlight the positive attribute of the car which may increase the used car price. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way to delete the posts, especially ones quoted by others, or move to a different thread. Op?

 

[Homer]

The thing that's really confusing about all this charging rate BS is why it's on the "What is being offered at end of lease?" thread.
Your comments should be moved to a "Charging Rates" thread under the "Batteries & Charging" section.

Has anybody purchased their leased car from GM Financial? What did they offer and how were they to deal with?

I agree. The charging debate needs to move Battery and Charging section and I will add further charging comments there.

There doesn't seem to be much info here regarding end-of-lease deals and I sure would like to see what deals are being offered. The lease on my 2015 Spark EV 2LT is with A-Car and will end in May of next year. Since I was not sure what end-of-lease deal I might be offered, I recently found and purchased a very low-mileage [6700 miles] 2016 Spark EV 2LT to replace my 2015. So far, I have driven it almost 1000 miles without any problems.

Thank you for getting us back on topic.

Do you mind sharing what you paid, or at least what prices you saw? From what I've seen on the east coast, used low mileage sparks seem to be at least 10k (10-12k advertised).

 

[MrDRMorgan]

The thing that's really confusing about all this charging rate BS is why it's on the "What is being offered at end of lease?" thread.
Your comments should be moved to a "Charging Rates" thread under the "Batteries & Charging" section.

Has anybody purchased their leased car from GM Financial? What did they offer and how were they to deal with?

I agree. The charging debate needs to move Battery and Charging section and I will add further charging comments there.

There doesn't seem to be much info here regarding end-of-lease deals and I sure would like to see what deals are being offered. The lease on my 2015 Spark EV 2LT is with A-Car and will end in May of next year. Since I was not sure what end-of-lease deal I might be offered, I recently found and purchased a very low-mileage [6700 miles] 2016 Spark EV 2LT to replace my 2015. So far, I have driven it almost 1000 miles without any problems.

Thank you for getting us back on topic.

Do you mind sharing what you paid, or at least what prices you saw? From what I've seen on the east coast, used low mileage sparks seem to be at least 10k (10-12k advertised).

No problem. Here is a little history to help explain why I now have three Spark EVs.

In late May of 2015, I leased my first Spark EV 2LT with the quick-charge option. Had I purchased the car, the retail price of the car was $25,779 plus tax, license and DOC fees. Instead, I took advantage of the zero down lease agreement being offered at that time and ended up with a 30K mile lease for 36 months at a cost of $167 per month. Incentives from the State of California ($2500), San Joaquin County where I live ($3000), and PG&E ($500) completely covered the cost of my lease for the 36-month contract period. In essence, a free car for 3 years. The car now has 24,000 miles on it and, until recently, has been complete trouble-free. The "service vehicle soon" light just came on and the dealer is now working on the problem although I have not noticed any problems.

I liked the 2015 so much that I started looking for a second Spark EV and, in August 2015, I found a used 2014 Spark EV 2LT with only 1500 miles on it. This car does not have the quick-charge option but it was completely factory new inside and out with no blemishes or dings. I bought this car and paid $13,995 plus tax, license and DOC fees. PG&E rebated me another $500 too. This car has been completely trouble-free. Current mileage is 12,100.

Earlier this year, just for curiosity, I started checking http://www.cargurus.com to see what Spark EVs were selling for in my area. I saw a 2016 Spark EV 2LT with the quick-charge option being offered by a KIA dealer in Elk Grove. The car only had 6700 miles on it so I watched this car for a few months. At the same time, I was wondering how much I might have to pay for my 2015 when the lease expires. I still do not have a good answer. I decided to take a look at this 2016 and, at the end of October 2017, I purchased the car for $11,734 plus tax, license and DOC fees. The car had been sitting on the dealer's lot for 6 months before I purchased it and it too was in factory new condition inside and out. Again, PG&E rebated me still another $500 rebate. So far, this car has been completely trouble-free and currently has 7400 miles on the ODO.

Now I can part with my 2015 next May and my wife and I will still have two great Spark EVs to drive.

 

[Planerench]

I can't tell you how much I wish I could equip my personal fleet with Spark EVs. We make two or three trips a year requiring ICE range. I would be prepared to rent a vehicle for those runs or borrow from family for that matter. Electric is just so posh. I almost don't love my VW Vanagon anymore. I do, but I don't want to commute in it, ever. I am almost to the point I would drive a LEAF. Maybe park up the street and drive with a disguise. :ugeek:

Nope, Just browsed some Leafs. That turd doesn't even look good in black. Couldn't do it. I'm old but I still keep a fragment of dignity on my person at all times.

 

[NORTON]

...Nope, Just browsed some Leafs. That turd doesn't even look good in black....

iMiEV 's are getting very affordable !! :lol:

You know, it's not a new pair of shoes. It's a tool to haul yoass. You can't see the outside from the inside.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I can't tell you how much I wish I could equip my personal fleet with Spark EVs. We make two or three trips a year requiring ICE range. I would be prepared to rent a vehicle for those runs or borrow from family for that matter. Electric is just so posh. I almost don't love my VW Vanagon anymore. I do, but I don't want to commute in it, ever. I am almost to the point I would drive a LEAF. Maybe park up the street and drive with a disguise. :ugeek:

Nope, Just browsed some Leafs. That turd doesn't even look good in black. Couldn't do it. I'm old but I still keep a fragment of dignity on my person at all times.

Last of my off-topic comment:

I estimate 85 - 90% of the driving my wife and I do is within the "local" no-need-to-charge range of the Spark EV. Once per week, we take a 135 mile round trip to the Bay Area and stop twice [ once going and once returning] at EVgo DCFC charging locations in Livermore and Pleasanton. I charge to 90% in about 15 minutes and go on my way. The 135 mile trip will become more of a challenge as air temperatures continue to drop and I have to use the heater.

For long road trips I plan to either drive my 1999 Chevy pickup truck or rent a vehicle. Right now I am one DCFC charger away from being able to comfortably drive to San Diego by going South on Hwy 99 and I-5. It is currently possible to drive up I-5 into Oregon, Washington and even into Canada as one venturesome driver [xylhim], posted earlier on this forum. He drove between Victorville, CA and Edmondton, AB, Canada. Just recently, DCFC locations were added along HWY 80 to make it possible to drive to Reno, NV via Hwy 80. Getting to South Lake Tahoe is already possible. The ride down Hwy 50 from Echo Summit to Folsom in a Spark EV is a real E-Ticket ride down the hill!

I plan to give the trip from Home to Reno, NV and back a try sometime in April or May next year.

 

[Planerench]

...Nope, Just browsed some Leafs. That turd doesn't even look good in black....

iMiEV 's are getting very affordable !! :lol:

You know, it's not a new pair of shoes. It's a tool to haul yoass. You can't see the outside from the inside.

Way to go Nissan! You ruined Black!!!

 

[mvly]

Just called my Bank (Ally) about lease buy out and they said they could not do any better than what was in the lease agreement. There is 0 chance I would pay what is on the residue so I am not sure what they are smoking. I'll try again and probably try to get the leasing department directly and see what they can offer me.

 

[GladstoneCoach]

I'll try again and probably try to get the leasing department directly and see what they can offer me.

How far out are you from your return date? I am hopeful they'll get more interested in an offer as they get closer to the lease expiration date.

According to KBB, these things are valued below $7,500 at dealer trade-in rates (similar or less than at auction?). I'm curious who takes the bath on the difference between residual value ($14k) and market value (~$7k) when all is said & done. If I knew who's taking it in the shorts in that transaction, whether it's the selling dealer or the leaseholder - THAT'S the entity to be dealing with . . .

 

[wfam5]

Lease company only cares that you make your payments. They got the rebate and your payments. The dealer you turn it into will take it in the shorts. The time for negotiation is at turn-in. Nobody cares until then.