Winter Range in Connecticut

[CCIE]

When I was considering a Spark EV the number one question I had was what the range would be like in Winter. Reports of cold weather performance seem to be sparse, even though there were Spark EVs sold in Canada. I live in CT and temps get into the single digits regularly in January. I'm still not quite sure how Sparkie will do with my 60 mile round trip commute when we get to that point. But, for anyone curious, I'll be updating this post with how I do. Mornings should be the coldest so I'll probably only list that leg.

My 30 mile (one-way) commute includes a 45%/45% mix of 60mph speeds & stop/go traffic on the highway with the remaining 10% on city streets. Usually takes about an hour.

11-28-2016: 30F, Preconditioned, Brief Defrost on start then Seat Heat Only, 30 miles traveled, 33% Battery Used
12-16-2016: 14F, Preconditioned, Seat Heat Only, 30 miles traveled, 32% Battery Used
01-09-2017: 8F, Preconditioned, Seat Heat Only, 30 miles traveled, 36% Battery Used

 

[NORTON]

Are you saying you already own a Spark EV and expect to get at least 60 mile range in the dead of a North East Winter,, without plugging in at your work?

 

[nikwax]

When I was considering a Spark EV the number one question I had was what the range would be like in Winter. Reports of cold weather performance seem to be sparse, even though there were Spark EVs sold in Canada. I live in CT and temps get into the single digits regularly in January. I'm still not quite sure how Sparkie will do with my 60 mile round trip commute when we get to that point. But, for anyone curious, I'll be updating this post with how I do. Mornings should be the coldest so I'll probably only list that leg.

My 30 mile (one-way) commute includes a 45%/45% mix of 60mph speeds & stop/go traffic on the highway with the remaining 10% on city streets. Usually takes about an hour.

11-28-2016: 30F, Preconditioned, Brief Defrost on start then Seat Heat Only, 30 miles traveled, 33% Battery Used

so that would extrapolate to 90 miles of range? Pretty impressive for winter driving

 

[CCIE]

Are you saying you already own a Spark EV and expect to get at least 60 mile range in the dead of a North East Winter,, without plugging in at your work?

It hasn't been cold again since I posted that. But, based on how Sparkie has been doing I expect to be able to do my commute in the dead of winter (single digits F) without charging during the day. I understand that means preconditioning and only using heat when absolutely required to defrost the windows. I have a Volt, so I'm used to wearing a warm coat/gloves and only using the seat heater in the winter. Cold doesn't bother me.

On the rare days when it's very cold and there isn't traffic on my way to work, I'll either drive my Volt or use a fast charger near work before heading home.

Anyway, once it gets cold again I'll keep updating the original post with how I do.

 

[PhilPen]

Not sure what the max range of my Spark EV would be, its not been too cold yet in CT. I got this car only a week or so ago. It was an old 'new' Spark. 'Old' because it was a 2015 Model Year, (actually assembled the very end of 2014 according to the vehicle history report) 'new' because I am the first owner (never before registered) and it had <100 miles on the car odometer. I therefore presume it had been 'stored' for quite a long period of time probably at near full charge (possibly not the best treatment for the battery). When I got the car it indicated a range of 66 miles at full charge now with a bit over 300 miles on the odometer at full charge it shows a range of 70 miles (not the claimed factory 82 miles). That said I always seem to travel more miles than the range decreases even on the highway but strongly doubt I could even approach 90 miles for a total range. Fortunately my round trip commute is only 25 miles so I should have no problems.

 

[nikwax]

Not sure what the max range of my Spark EV would be, its not been too cold yet in CT. I got this car only a week or so ago. It was an old 'new' Spark. 'Old' because it was a 2015 Model Year, (actually assembled the very end of 2014 according to the vehicle history report) 'new' because I am the first owner (never before registered) and it had <100 miles on the car odometer. I therefore presume it had been 'stored' for quite a long period of time probably at near full charge (possibly not the best treatment for the battery). When I got the car it indicated a range of 66 miles at full charge now with a bit over 300 miles on the odometer at full charge it shows a range of 70 miles (not the claimed factory 82 miles). That said I always seem to travel more miles than the range decreases even on the highway but strongly doubt I could even approach 90 miles for a total range. Fortunately my round trip commute is only 25 miles so I should have no problems.

As you likely know, your range estimation is based on how you drive, the terrain, traffic, the climatic conditions, the state of your tires, and other variables. Just like a gas vehicle. My range o meter is around 100 in the warm months, and drops down to 66 in the winter. I've never pushed it to the end to see how far it would actually travel on a single charge, it's certainly more than enough for a normal day's driving for us. We did a road trip one last winter and used DCFC along the way.

 

[xylhim]

Up here in Edmonton, Ab, Canada (the most Northern big city).

My current range, using heater, city driving, and in sport mode is 59 miles. If I don't use the heater, or sport mode- I can get about 80 miles- as long as the battery is pre-conditioned.

 

[EldRitch]

Does anyone have numbers on wattage consumed for a heated seat, and for cabin heating?

 

[CCIE]

Not sure what the max range of my Spark EV would be, its not been too cold yet in CT. I got this car only a week or so ago. It was an old 'new' Spark. 'Old' because it was a 2015 Model Year, (actually assembled the very end of 2014 according to the vehicle history report) 'new' because I am the first owner (never before registered) and it had <100 miles on the car odometer. I therefore presume it had been 'stored' for quite a long period of time probably at near full charge (possibly not the best treatment for the battery). When I got the car it indicated a range of 66 miles at full charge now with a bit over 300 miles on the odometer at full charge it shows a range of 70 miles (not the claimed factory 82 miles). That said I always seem to travel more miles than the range decreases even on the highway but strongly doubt I could even approach 90 miles for a total range. Fortunately my round trip commute is only 25 miles so I should have no problems.

My Spark was a 2015 "super leftover" too. Manufacture date on the car is 9/2015, so it sat around for a little over a year before I bought it this month. Not sure what charge state it sat at. But, the Carfax report does say the 12V battery was changed in June. So, it must have sat long enough with no use for that to discharge and fail.

Anyway, my Guess-O-Meter has been saying 80-85 miles after a full charge. Have you fully charged yours and then run it down pretty far (2 bars or less)? I know from my Volt that the GOM needs a full charge/discharge cycle now and then or it gets less accurate. Determining a charge state of a Lithium battery is apparently not very easy. So, it helps the GOM accuracy if it sometimes gets to see how far you actually get on a full charge. Obviously you don't want to run to zero in the Spark, but running down to 10 miles remaining might help.

Had my first serious range anxiety yesterday. Headed to Hartford intending to quick charge at one of the two CCS stations up that way. First one at CCSU is broken. And the other one in Hartford proper was blocked by a crane. Ended up having to sit for three hours and level-2 charge after running down to 5 miles remaining and entering turtle-mode. Not fun.

 

[CCIE]

Up here in Edmonton, Ab, Canada (the most Northern big city).

My current range, using heater, city driving, and in sport mode is 59 miles. If I don't use the heater, or sport mode- I can get about 80 miles- as long as the battery is pre-conditioned.

Nice! Thanks for the datapoint! Looking at your weather forecast it's around 0F up there (or -17C, if you prefer). If you can get 80 miles at that temp, I should have no issues down here!

 

[CCIE]

Does anyone have numbers on wattage consumed for a heated seat, and for cabin heating?

I believe I've seen that the heater is the same 6000W resistive unit as the Volt uses. So, it could pull up to that much getting the cabin to temperature and then somewhat less to maintain temperature. You could probably watch the KW meter on the main screen while sitting still after a cold start and see what it's pulling over time.

I haven't seen anything mentioned about the Spark's heated seat wattage. But, the Volt has three heated seat levels that draw 15W, 30W, or 45W. To me the Spark's single heated seat level seems hotter than the Volt's highest level. So, figure it uses around 50W per seat.

If you can tolerate only using the heated seat, it saves an enormous amoint of energy vs heating the whole cabin.

 

[PhilPen]

....Not sure what charge state it sat at. But, the Carfax report does say the 12V battery was changed in June. So, it must have sat long enough with no use for that to discharge and fail.

Anyway, my Guess-O-Meter has been saying 80-85 miles after a full charge. Have you fully charged yours and then run it down pretty far (2 bars or less)? I know from my Volt that the GOM needs a full charge/discharge cycle now and then or it gets less accurate. Determining a charge state of a Lithium battery is apparently not very easy. So, it helps the GOM accuracy if it sometimes gets to see how far you actually get on a full charge. Obviously you don't want to run to zero in the Spark, but running down to 10 miles remaining might help.

Had my first serious range anxiety yesterday. Headed to Hartford intending to quick charge at one of the two CCS stations up that way. First one at CCSU is broken. And the other one in Hartford proper was blocked by a crane. Ended up having to sit for three hours and level-2 charge after running down to 5 miles remaining and entering turtle-mode. Not fun.

Sealed lead acid batteries have a self discharge rate of ~3%/month at 20C (more at greater temperatures) but there's likely some constant light load supporting various things sleep mode of the computer etc. I'm thinking of replacing the 12v lead battery with a lithium unit.
I've not taken my Spark down to less than 28 miles yet. However, this morning it was reading a record (for me) of 72 miles range so it is going up.
I thought I'd try my first public charging station yesterday (wasn't too down on range) but I couldn't because the spot was occupied with a fast food truck serving snacks.

 

[NORTON]

... If I don't use the heater, or sport mode- I can get about 80 miles- as long as the battery is pre-conditioned.

Not using the heater is suffering for what you believe in !! Woo.

I'm pretty sure 'pre-conditioning' is only for the cabin of the car. The key fob or the app both do whatever is needed to heat or cool the cabin. In the winter press the driver's seat heat button when leaving the car overnight for the morning pre-conditioning.

The Battery has a Thermal Management System that heats or cools the battery pack as required, but only when plugged in or powered up.

A 'pre-conditioning' event does effect the battery, however, as stated above. The Cabin heat can use more power than the 3.3kW charging system can provide.
You may be sucking down the battery a little bit on really cold days, even if you are plugged in.

 

[NORTON]

...
I thought I'd try my first public charging station yesterday (wasn't too down on range) but I couldn't because the spot was occupied with a fast food truck serving snacks.

So ask him, with all due respect, to get the hell out of YOUR parking spot, or you'll have to call the police. This is illegal parking in more states all the time.
And ask for a taco for your troubles too !! :lol:
You'll be educating the masses with your speaking out !!

 

[CCIE]

Sealed lead acid batteries have a self discharge rate of ~3%/month at 20C (more at greater temperatures) but there's likely some constant light load supporting various things sleep mode of the computer etc. I'm thinking of replacing the 12v lead battery with a lithium unit.
I've not taken my Spark down to less than 28 miles yet. However, this morning it was reading a record (for me) of 72 miles range so it is going up.
I thought I'd try my first public charging station yesterday (wasn't too down on range) but I couldn't because the spot was occupied with a fast food truck serving snacks.

Yeah, the car electronics would probably kill the 12V battery within a month. Not sure why they couldn't just recharge it, but maybe AGM batteries are not tolerant of being completely drained.

Speaking of AGM batteries, you may want to be careful with putting anything besides that in the car. The aux power module that converts traction battery voltage to ~14V and keeps the 12V battery charged is designed to work with an AGM battery. The Volt also uses an AGM 12V battery and some in-the-know people (including WOT, who seems to work for GM engineering) on the Volt forum have repeatedly cautioned of using non-AGM batteries since they have a unique charging profile that the APM is tailored for.

 

[NORTON]

...Speaking of AGM batteries, you may want to be careful with putting anything besides that in the car. The aux power module that converts traction battery voltage to ~14V and keeps the 12V battery charged is designed to work with an AGM battery. .... the Volt forum have repeatedly cautioned of using non-AGM batteries since they have a unique charging profile that the APM is tailored for.

Right! And I think I read about the different cycles the APM goes through to help the AGM battery live long and prosper. One mode it is the 'Anti-Sulfation'. I have a high end 'Battery-Minder' that does this, it's a pulsed AC voltage that does mojo in the battery plates.

Besides, Large Li-ion under hood batteries are really expensive and what is the benefit? Saving few pounds? Think of a big Li-ion without TMS. Think Leaf.

Some of the loads on the Spark EV are always having the Onstar cell phone and the key fob receivers listening for a command.
Is there an indication that the battery was left discharged for long periods?

 

[PhilPen]

...Yeah, the car electronics would probably kill the 12V battery within a month. Not sure why they couldn't just recharge it, but maybe AGM batteries are not tolerant of being completely drained....

That's correct any fully discharged lead acid battery has to be charged immediately because sitting in the fully discharged state results in rapid and heavy sulfation and permanent battery damage.

 

[CCIE]

I added the a datapoint for today to my original post. Did my normal 30 mile commute this morning with the temp at 14F and used 32% of the battery charge. Didn't use any cabin heat (other than the precondition), and cycled the seat heater a few times (that thing gets hot!). I know, I'm a polar bear, but I was comfortable with coat and gloves on.

This car amazes me. Seems like the cold weather has much less impact on it than it does on my Volt's battery range.

 

[tehjosheh]

For those who set their cabin air temp to high for precondition then turn off their AC during their commute, beware that my experience shows even with all AC controls off (no fan, no AC, no defrost), if your cabin air temp is set to above ambient (~80 F in my case for precondition) i think the car will still wastes energy keeping your heater core at that temp.

See my original post:
http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4721

Would like some confirmation on this.

 

[CCIE]

For those who set their cabin air temp to high for precondition then turn off their AC during their commute, beware that my experience shows even with all AC controls off (no fan, no AC, no defrost), if your cabin air temp is set to above ambient (~80 F in my case for precondition) i think the car will still wastes energy keeping your heater core at that temp.

See my original post:
http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4721

Would like some confirmation on this.

My interior temp was set at 72F this morning, though the system was off. I didn't see any climate usage on the energy screen. It definitely was below 72F in the car. It would be very dumb of GM to waste energy keeping the heater core warm if the system is off. So, hopefully that's not the case.