7500 tax credit going away asap

[Taxman]

Even retired people should be able to realize enough capital gains to create $7500 in tax liability. If not, save your money and buy a gently used car. Tons of great deals on used EVs.

One of my clients had nearly $100k in long term capital gains and zero tax liability. His earned income was less than the married standard deduction and 3 exemptions, and that put him in the 0% bracket for LTCG.
(taxpayers in the 10% and 15% brackets pay 0% on LTCGs, it's been that way since about 2002)

 

[evboy]

Even retired people should be able to realize enough capital gains to create $7500 in tax liability. If not, save your money and buy a gently used car. Tons of great deals on used EVs.

One of my clients had nearly $100k in long term capital gains and zero tax liability. His earned income was less than the married standard deduction and 3 exemptions, and that put him in the 0% bracket for LTCG.
(taxpayers in the 10% and 15% brackets pay 0% on LTCGs, it's been that way since about 2002)

12,700 married SD
12k 3 exemptions
75k income at 0%
yep, right at 100k. sweet. I need to get married. NOT. did you tell your client about alimony and losing half his shit when he gets divorced.
sex with the same girl for the rest of your life. ill pass on all that.

 

[evboy]

taxman, I have a question. this year I made 35k in futures trading profits. I have 15k in carryover losses from last year. in 2018, should I claim the 3k max towards my income first and then deduct the 12k left in carryover losses towards my 35k profits OR claim the whole 15k towards my 35k profits. which way would I come out ahead since 40% of futures profits or taxed at the short term ordinary income rate.

 

[CCIE]

You guys have some good accountants. I’m not sure how $100k income, even married, yields less than $7500 in tax liability. Must have some serious tax deductions.

I do know that the lower tax brackets pay nothing on LTCG. But the gains themselves can push up the tax bracket by themselves. So, something should be owed on $100k. I’m too lazy to do the math since the IRS formula is not straightforward. But, I’m amazed that it would be 0.

 

[evboy]

You guys have some good accountants. I’m not sure how $100k income, even married, yields less than $7500 in tax liability. Must have some serious tax deductions.

I do know that the lower tax brackets pay nothing on LTCG. But the gains themselves can push up the tax bracket by themselves. So, something should be owed on $100k. I’m too lazy to do the math since the IRS formula is not straightforward. But, I’m amazed that it would be 0.

that 75k that I posted for married is 0 percent if its a capital gain. if its income from a job than it would be taxed at 10 and 15%. then u would have a 7500 tax liability. taxman said his client had 100k from capital gains which were probably from stocks. I'm single so its 10,500 for my standard deduction and personal exemption and 37,500 of LT capital gains income at zero percent.Thats 48k I can make trading stocks tax free if I hold for one year. In theory with trumps new 12k standard deduction for single and first 45k zero rate for capital gains, you could make 57k a year trading stocks, and as long as you held them for 1 year, pay zero in taxes and zero in social security, fica, medicare.... the whole nine yards. there is a reason why working for somebody else sucks. you get taxed to death.


I bought 1000 shares of Netflix in 2007 and like a idiot sold it 6 months later because of piracy. If I would have held those shares till today, I would have over a million dollars and could have sold 57k a year and pay no taxes for next 20 years.

 

[Taxman]

taxman, I have a question. this year I made 35k in futures trading profits. I have 15k in carryover losses from last year. in 2018, should I claim the 3k max towards my income first and then deduct the 12k left in carryover losses towards my 35k profits OR claim the whole 15k towards my 35k profits. which way would I come out ahead since 40% of futures profits or taxed at the short term ordinary income rate.

You never have both a gain on the front page of 1040 and a loss carryforward to next year.
Everything nets out before it hits page one of 1040.
Take a look at Schedule D.

1. compute short term and long term gain or loss for current year.
2. deduct short term and long term loss carryforward from this year's short and long term figures.
3. if step 2 results in both a gain and a loss, subtract the loss from the gain, if the result is a loss, subtract 3k on page one and carry the rest forward, if the result is a gain, report it on page one.

 

[evboy]

thanks. u think trumps plan will be retroactive to 1/1/17. if it passes of course.

 

[Taxman]

It wouldn't be the first time a tax bill for the year passed in November or December.
In 1993, there was a major change passed in December that was retro to January, and it greatly increased the tax liability on certain types of income.

It's unlikely that any credits will be revoked retroactively (like EV and solar energy property credits).

I always schedule my 2 day update class as late as possible, especially in a President's first year in office.
I'm going the 11th and 12th next month, I hope I don't get a bunch of changes in my email after that.

I just love it when they pass a tax bill on December 20 and the IRS says 'we will start working on implementing it in early January, we've got Christmas vacation plans'. Then you get into fun stuff like "we will not accept e-filing of returns with itemized deductions until February 14" (actually they ended up accepting Schedule A at the end of January, but still, it was ridiculous that they weren't accepting anything but very simple returns when e-file season opened that year)

 

[67goat]

.... 2010 to 2017 is long enough for a tax credit that large. ...

But 'tax credits' to the oil barons and a military presence to make that business flow smoothly around the world should just continue forever.
Oh, and the pollution we all share, and enjoy, is just part of doing that business.

what tax credits r u talking about. oil companies deduct their expenses like any other company. what special deductions do oil companies get that any other company doesn't. if they buy a oil rig that's a expense.
Oil is the greatest commodity ever discovered. its solely responsible for the economic boom of the last 80 years. its responsible for the car industry and all the jobs related to that directly and indirectly. its responsible for the federal highway system. its responsible for the airline industry and all the jobs associated with travel. u guys that complain about oil don't realize how much u have gained in wealth because of it. sure its dirty and newer technologies will eventually replace it but oil will always be the most important product ever.
look how basic life was before oil. we had more progress in the last 80 years after oil than we had for 5000 years before oil.

The oil industry does not deduct the way other businesses do. In addition to several credits that only apply to the oil industry (intangible drilling costs, depletion allowance, royalty relief from making payments for using federal land that any other industry using federal land would pay, etc...), and even more that could apply in theory to other industries but end up being used almost exclusively by the oil industry (dual capacity taxpayer), there are also special rules for how the oil industry is allowed to operate (immediate and/or rapid term deduction of costs rather than amortization over several years, aka percentage depletion), there are tax deductions that were meant for struggling industries that they got themselves included in, even though they were going gangbusters profits-wise (domestic manufacturing deduction), and other rules that disproportionately benefit the oil industry (LIFO).

So no, the oil industry does not deduct expenses like any other business.

As for the effect they had on the economy, that mainly happened because of the subsidies that they were given and allowed to keep for nearly a century (while competing industries lost their subsidies. Read up on the switch from whale oil and camphene to petroleum, the government, not the market picked petroleum.) It is a limited resource that is getting harder to find and extract. Alt energies have had much smaller subsidies for a much shorter time while their competitors (coal and gas) have kept theirs. Time to stop living in the past and move to the future.

 

[evboy]

everything you just said is the reason we need to scrap the whole tax system. as a libertarian we should have zero corporate and zero income tax. have a national sales tax or vat tax to pay for a very small government and a gas tax to pay for infrastructure spending. get rid of 90 percent of government and all its waste and you will c 4 to 5% gdp growth instead of the 2% Obama economy and probably 3% under trump until everything collapses from the 20 trillion in debt.

 

[NORTON]

.... get rid of 90 percent of government and all its waste....

Says the guy with a public education and drives on government infrastructure daily.
Do you really think any of that Lib stuff works?

So, a factory moves in down the street and starts belching black smoke and puking gray sludge into the stream behind your house.

In your fantasy libertarian america you'd have the right to ........ Move Away. Correct?

 

[evboy]

.... get rid of 90 percent of government and all its waste....

Says the guy with a public education and drives on government infrastructure daily.
Do you really think any of that Lib stuff works?

So, a factory moves in down the street and starts belching black smoke and puking gray sludge into the stream behind your house.

In you fantasy libertarian america you'd have the right to ........ Move Away. Correct?

The states would have every right to stop that factory from spewing crap. I meant 90% of federal government. driving on government infrastructure with gas taxes as I said. lets not forget the 1 trillion in student loans that the feds caused.college should be cheap but since the feds will give as much money as kids can sign up for the colleges take advantage and raise the price to obscene levels for some worthless degree.

 

[Planerench]

.... get rid of 90 percent of government and all its waste....

Says the guy with a public education and drives on government infrastructure daily.
Do you really think any of that Lib stuff works?

So, a factory moves in down the street and starts belching black smoke and puking gray sludge into the stream behind your house.

In you fantasy libertarian america you'd have the right to ........ Move Away. Correct?

My sister and I were educated by my mother at home at great financial cost to my family. My three children have never attended a government school. I hold a commercial, single engine, land, instrument pilot certificate along with airframe and power plant certificates with inspection authorization. 11k hours of flight time pilot in command and 25 years full time mechanic. I had no problem paying $150 per year in extra fee to my state for driving an electric car because that money will be used for road construction. State control is our salvation. We the people can no longer constrain the .fed.

I know I caught a lucky break with my Spark purchase. With no government influence I could have never afforded such a thing. I can’t reverse the circumstances that brought this to pass but I can take advantage of it with a clear conscience.

 

[NORTON]

...So, a factory moves in down the street and starts belching black smoke and puking gray sludge i....

The states would have every right to stop that factory from spewing crap. ...

OK, States can control their own pollution levels.
That's great because, as we all know, water and air pollution does not cross state lines!!

 

[NORTON]

My sister and I were educated by my mother at home .... My three children have never attended a government school.
I hold a .... pilot certificate along with [other] certificates .... and 25 years full time mechanic. ... State control is our salvation. We the people can no longer constrain the .fed.
.... my Spark purchase. With no government influence I could have never afforded such a thing. I can’t reverse the circumstances that brought this to pass but I can take advantage of it with a clear conscience.

Job> With all due respect,, A GED was all that was need for this career field. I know. I'm there with you, but in a higher R&D position.
Home Schooling> Why??? From what I read it is usually to keep the children in a bubble of the parents' choosing. And we all now what the bubble usually is, right? Religion.
Gobmint> Should it be encouraging a clean, sustainable energy future? I think it's a great idea. In fact it should go further, like national net-metering. You know who lobbies against that?

Sorry for my smelly opinions.
I just can't understand why normal working class people get on board with this Libertarian jive. You know who ultimately benefits?
Where is it being promoted these days? That Faux network? The wackier corners of media? Do you ever research opposing views?

 

[evboy]

lets see if libertarians or the crazy ones and u dems and repubs are the smart ones. we will use ron paul as our gold standard. Lets review: against Vietnam, Korean, and bush Iraq war. for gold standard and balanced budgets no drug war and no welfare. since we didn't listen to him we fought all those wars that people now say were wrong and expensive. we now have 20 trillion in debt since we went off gold standard and no balance budget. welfare is a expensive mess that has turned this country into a bunch of lazy asses and prison system full of drug users and drugs r cheaper than when the war started. dems were the reason for segregation and fought to keep it until they saw it was on the way out and started the kkk after the civil war and have bankrupted Detroit Chicago Greece and Puerto rico with their policies. lucky for the dems black people r such a dumb voting block. could you imagine if the jews voted 95% for the natzi party like blacks vote 95% for their opressor.

 

[Planerench]

My sister and I were educated by my mother at home .... My three children have never attended a government school.
I hold a .... pilot certificate along with [other] certificates .... and 25 years full time mechanic. ... State control is our salvation. We the people can no longer constrain the .fed.
.... my Spark purchase. With no government influence I could have never afforded such a thing. I can’t reverse the circumstances that brought this to pass but I can take advantage of it with a clear conscience.

Job> With all due respect,, A GED was all that was need for this career field. I know. I'm there with you, but in a higher R&D position.
Home Schooling> Why??? From what I read it is usually to keep the children in a bubble of the parents' choosing. And we all now what the bubble usually is, right? Religion.
Gobmint> Should it be encouraging a clean, sustainable energy future? I think it's a great idea. In fact it should go further, like national net-metering. You know who lobbies against that?
Sorry for my smelly opinions.
I just can't understand why normal working class people get on board with this Libertarian jive. You know who ultimately benefits?
Where is it being promoted these days? That Faux network? The wackier corners of media? Do you ever research opposing views?

I am very conservative in my believes, but I am difficult to classify. If a state wants to legalize recreational drugs, I don’t have a problem with it. If a state wishes to prohibit the same, I likewise have no problem with that. People will live where they are comfortable and few have their toes stepped on.

Regarding school, my point was that the government schools value per dollar sucks and some folks are willing to sacrifice to do the job right, themselves. Personal responsibility comes before liberty. I move in circles of conservatives and progressives. Everyone has a point of view you can learn from.

I can learn from you and enjoy an electric car when most of my friends and neighbors would prefer a big diesel pickup! Peace friend!

 

[Planerench]

Norton, I gotta ask, from what you have read about home schooling? In the name of balanced investigation, how many differing inputs do you have on the subject? Early on my relatives thought my parents were freaks, then they thought they were lucky we turned out “normal”. Then they shut up when the second generation turned out normal as well.

Our home school groups perform so well the public schools have requested to average our national test scores with theirs since we are in “their” district. The backward hick thing is a progressive invention. I have known dozens of families that home schooled their children (on their dime btw) and the only weird ones would have been weird regardless of the choice.

The point of all this is different angles on the same issues. I love my Spark because it is efficient and my love is aviation and aircraft must be efficient. Beautifully executed transportation. It suits me. The tax credit was unconstitutional in my view. It deserves to die. Pay as directly for the roads as possible and eliminate subsidies for everything. The fed will be our undoing.

I have no problem with California giving away their tax money for their state goals. It makes sense to me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[NORTON]

....... >The tax credit was unconstitutional in my view. It deserves to die.
>>Pay as directly for the roads as possible and eliminate subsidies for everything. The fed will be our undoing.
....

>The fed is trying to make the country a cleaner place for all. Moving away from fossil fuels needs to be encouraged at all levels. Of course we have fossil fuel advocates in gobmint so that is slow to happen.
The whole question of the EPA and Libertarians is where I lose all interest. Who do they think benefits when you slash federal authority? Ordinary working class people have nothing to gain with that whole weird theory.
So you think having a national Net Metering Policy is a bad idea. WHY? Who gains and who loses?

>>And NO TAXES. Pay as you Play.
We install a transponder in every car and truck. Have sensors on every street light, stop light, mile of road, bridge and public parking space.
Drive past a street light at night (only charged at night to be fair ) Cha-Ching - $0.01.
Drive over a big bridge - cha ching - $1.50. Small bridge in the hood - cha ching - $0.20
Each mile of limited access highway - $0.02.5

That's the Lib version of the future, correct?
The important thing is No Taxes, right?

Yes we start senseless wars, have 600 military bases around the world (why?), have prisons full of victimless criminals, etc. etc...
I wish voting mattered to change things. How can we change directions?

But this: "Eliminate the EPA and FDA and public education and welfare (let'em die in a ditch, right?), etc.",, in the name of saving a few bucks on your tax bill,,,,,
Well grow up and be a member of a civil society and not a cheap ass pinching your pennies by decreasing you own imaginary tax bill.
Do you ever look at standard of living and standard of happiness studies around the world? Taxes can be factored into that. We are far from 1#. Same with health care....

 

[NORTON]

...... dems were the reason for segregation and fought to keep it until they saw it was on the way out and started the kkk after the civil war and have bankrupted Detroit Chicago Greece and Puerto rico with their policies......

OKaaay.... So it all started 'after the civil war'..... Let me guess your theories on that subject.... Never mind..... :|


Dang all this for a lousing, encouraging, 'Early Adopters' tax break just to get the EV ball rolling.......

We are so off topic,,,,, sorry.