Anyone actually KNOW anyone at GM and can get True info ?

[tigger19687]

I didn't want this to be lost in other threads.

Does Anyone here Actually KNOW someone that can get true Info on if the Spark EV will be rolling out elsewhere.
OR know if it can be ordered and shipped to states Other then Cal/Org ?

I have tried to talk with dealers around here but that is like pulling teeth and no one wants to go above and beyond their job to satisfy a customer .

Also, does anyone know what "late arrival or Late Availability " actually is for GM ?
I am wondering when the Lime can be ordered

 

[emv]

"Available at participating dealers in California and Oregon in limited quantities"

Nobody plays it closer to the vest than the General, but a friend who ought to be in a position to know, tells me no.

Have you considered moving out west where the sun sets over the ocean as it should. :mrgreen:

 

[tigger19687]

I moved from Boston to Dallas.... and back. I like the snow

But i WANT this car

 

[xylhim]

Just get a Leaf, or wait until the end of the year for the Golf EV to come out (I think that one is going to be a wide release). Really, support the EV culture by getting an EV. I think you are going to have to wait a very long time to get a Spark where you live, so why wait to jump on board the electric bus? GM can give a damn about their EVs at this point, sure their engineers have done a great job, but at the corporate level, they're doing everything they can to prevent the wide scale adoption of EVs. By the time the Spark is available in Boston, Tesla will probably have their Model III out for sale, and you won't even remember wanting a Spark EV at that point.

I guess that or ship the thing from California :lol:

 

[emv]

I moved from Boston to Dallas.... and back. I like the snow

But i WANT this car

I can understand, when I'm out of the northwest I miss the rain. :lol:

So you really really really want it? Mick's coming on stage now singing "You can't always get what you want". The general doesn't care. If they had their druthers they'd be selling nothing but high profit margin Hummers, Suburbans and pick-em-up trucks.

It's a compliance car and it will remain a compliance car. Short of a couple of billboards for a couple of months they don't even advertise it. I'm sorry, but if you want an EV you'll need to start looking at the -admittedly limited - competition.

 

[Nashco]

I've said multiple times on this forum that I'm glad to purchase a car here, then sell it and ship it to somebody in other locations if they can't find a dealer willing to sell it to them directly. I've shipped cars cross-country many times, it's extremely simple and relatively affordable to do. If you want the car so bad, just do what you need to do to purchase it and chock up the shipping cost as just part of the cost of ownership.

Bryce

 

[TonyWilliams]

I've said multiple times on this forum that I'm glad to purchase a car here, then sell it and ship it to somebody in other locations if they can't find a dealer willing to sell it to them directly. I've shipped cars cross-country many times, it's extremely simple and relatively affordable to do. If you want the car so bad, just do what you need to do to purchase it and chock up the shipping cost as just part of the cost of ownership.

Bryce

I had previously suggested the exact same recourse in the previous thread he started with the same question.

I guess if you don't like the answer, you just keep asking, eh?

 

[tigger19687]

I would need to get the car a NEW, so your offer to buy it and sell to me is mute since my state will not give a rebate that way.

otherwise I would have already PM'd you

I would if they would let people order it, pay at the CA dealer and ship outside the state.

 

[emv]

I'm sure there's a hole in this scheme but if you really gotta have this car

Fly to PDX
Rent a private PO Box at PostalAnnex or similar company.
Buy the car locally, using the PO Box to register. Arrange forwarding of mail back to your home address.
Spend a week or so out on vacation here, give the car a shakedown run, enjoy the scenery.
Ship the car back to beantown.
Fly yourself back (or take the train - it's better than flying)
When the Oregon registration arrives re-register it there (paying your state's sales tax - avoiding tax fraud charges)
Enjoy.

Out of staters used to register expensive motor homes to private box addresses to take advantage of Oregon's lower registration fees and no sales tax. That got people in trouble for tax evasion, but all you're doing is trying to pull one over on the General.

Waiting to see holes punched all through this. :? :? :?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Waiting to see holes punched all through this. :? :? :?

No holes that I can see, except he seems to think he should get his state's hand out for his out-of-state purchase, which seems to be the singular hang-up from buying out-of-state.

I'll repeat from the other nearly identical thread started by the same poster:

GM isn't likely to sell their compliance car in a non-CARB-ZEV state until required to do so in 2018. Those states are:

CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.

Should GM go to a hydrogen compliance car for 2018 (very high likelihood), they will drop EV's very quickly... like Toyota is doing now. They will specifically NOT sell hydrogen cars any place except California, per the recently passed rule changes.

If you are not in one of the above states, keep dreaming.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The six "Large Vehicle Manufacturers", including GM, have been required since 2012 model year to comply with California Air Resources Board - Zero Emission Vehicle regulations, each using the following car for compliance:


1) Ford - Focus EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
2) Honda - Fit EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
3) Fiat/Chrysler - 500e
4) Toyota - Rav4 EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
5) GM Chevrolet - Spark EV
6) Nissan - LEAF


Needless to say, GM was so late to the game that they had to buy a whole bunch of CARB credits from Toyota and other manufacturers like Tesla to meet their requirement. With 3 of the 6 going to hydrogen, the "traveling provision" issue goes away since hydrogen is already exempt. Nissan, of course, started selling their LEAF electric vehicle in Dec 2010, and long ago met the minimum requirements, now with over 50,000 sold in the USA, and almost 150,000 sold worldwide.

Hydrogen is the easy out right now. I would put big bucks on a future GM hydrogen car just like their big competition.

For 2015 model year and beyond, CARB requires the following companies to comply:

BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs.

How many of them go hydrogen is debatable, but Mercedes is a high likelihood. Hyundai is absolutely hydrogen.

Every hydrogen defector is one less company that doesn't have to worry about the traveling provision. Problem solved... by dropping battery electric cars.

 

[emv]

Interesting that you say Hyundai is absolutely hydrogen when Kia has announced an electric Soul http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2015/experience?story=hello Perhaps they're hedging their bets.

Yes, I know it's nothing until it hits the showroom floor but it sure looks real. :mrgreen:

 

[tigger19687]

TW, please just shut up, I have you on ignore and I don't know WHY I even look at your replies.

I am not looking to get any other Rebate from another state.

This Thread was asking ... well just read the title !

Thanks for the Oregon offer but ...
Mass rules for the Rebate are as follows

--- What are the applicant requirements?
Eligible applicants must meet requirements that include, but are not limited to, the following:

Be a Massachusetts resident.
Be a purchaser or lessee of a new eligible vehicle and submit a MOR-EV application within 3 months of the vehicle purchase or lease date and prior to exhaustion of available rebate funds.
Purchase or lease an eligible vehicle before applying for a rebate. Vehicle purchase or lease date must be on or after start of program on June 18, 2014. Lease terms of at least 36 months are required for program eligibility.
Retain ownership of the vehicle for a minimum of 36 consecutive months immediately after the vehicle purchase or lease date.
Register the new vehicle with the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles for a minimum of 36 consecutive months for use in Massachusetts.

The MOR-EV program currently only offers rebates to consumers. Businesses, fleets and other entities are not eligible to apply.

What if I purchased or leased my vehicle before June 18, 2014?
Only vehicles purchased or leased on or after the program start date, June 18, 2014, are rebate eligible. The goal of the MOR-EV program is to incentivize the purchase or lease of new vehicles to encourage more vehicle adoption in the state.


What is required for a vehicle to be eligible for MOR-EV?

The vehicle must be new and manufactured by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or its authorized licensee. Vehicles considered new solely for determination of compliance with state emissions standards are not eligible.
The vehicle must be on the list of Eligible Vehicles on the date of purchase or lease.
Zero-emission motorcycles (ZEMs) must meet the definitions required in the MOR-EV Program Implementation Manual.


Why don't I see my vehicle on the eligibility list?
Vehicle manufacturers (OEMs) must meet a number of program requirements for MOR-EV program eligibility.

Generally, a vehicle is not eligible to participate in the MOR-EV for one of these reasons:
It does not meet the ZEM definition.
It does not meet the approved California Air Resources Board certification requirements as specified in the MOR-EV Program Implementation Manual

Can I purchase the vehicle out of state?
Yes, the vehicle can be purchased out of state. However, the vehicle first must be registered as new with the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles to be eligible for the rebate program. For more information about purchasing a vehicle out of state, go to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles.

 

[cwerdna]

TW, please just shut up, I have you on ignore and I don't know WHY I even look at your replies.

I am not looking to get any other Rebate from another state.

This Thread was asking ... well just read the title !

You're confused.

He's trying to get thru to you about WHY some automakers are building various types of vehicles (e.g. BEVs, enhanced AT-PZEVs (in the form of PHEVs), hydrogen FCVs, AT-PZEV cars, etc.) in conjunction w/buying ZEV credits from other automakers (http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/17/tesla-sells-most-zev-green-car-credits-gm-buys-most/ and http://insideevs.com/tesla-leads-sellers-of-zev-credits-in-past-year-gm-leads-as-a-buyer/) to meet CARB (California Air Resources Board) ZEV (Zero Emissions Vehicle) requirements and thus limiting their sales to California or not much beyond CA. Toyota, Chevy, Fiat, etc. BEV efforts are perfect examples of CA ZEV compliance cars.

There's little (financial) reason and incentive for automakers who are building small volume (and thus money-losing) ZEVs for CA compliance to sell them in states where it DOESN'T HELP with their California ZEV compliance or in states where there isn't something similar to CA's ZEV programs and required compliance. It will only put them deeper in the hole unless they can sell enough to get to get to breakeven and profitability. Adding more states adds a lot more overheard (more dealer and sales training needed, more field support, inventory risk since cars will be so spread out, stocking of parts at local depots, etc.) for tiny sales vs. their other vehicles.

This is all orthogonal to rebates (if any) to the consumer.

I don't know how many Chevy dealers there are in California, the most populous state w/38 million people but a few quick searches http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/dealer-locator.html leads to be believe a guestimate of 100 in CA aren't that far off. So, if it's an overall average of 1 sold/leased per dealer per month in an EV friendly state (i.e. white carpool lane stickers and $2500 California rebate (CVRP)) and where folks are more open to EVs, the effort and overhead will simply not be worth it in much of the rest of the US.

If you really want to the car, then you'll have to go w/Nascho's suggested route and and likely forgo any rebate from your or any other state. Have fun as well if you need any warranty work, recall work and EV specific work done...

Besides reading Tony's posts, see below:
http://www.toyota.com/esq/vehicles/regulatory/carb-mandate-for-zero-emission-vehicles.html
http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4143
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevcredits/2012zevcredits.htm
http://insideevs.com/fiat-ceo-fiat-loses-14000-every-500e-sold/

http://media.gm.com/dld/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Jul/gmsales/_jcr_content/rightpar/sectioncontainer/par/download_0/file.res/GM-Deliveries-Jun-2014.pdf from http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Jul/gmsales.html for GM's typical monthly and YTD sales
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ for Spark EV sales

 

[TonyWilliams]

TW, please just shut up, I have you on ignore and I don't know WHY I even look at your replies.

Not a surprise post on this forum. It truly is like dealing with rabidly immature kids. Your post has been reported to moderators.

By the way, GM isn't going to be selling new Spark EV's in non-regulatory markets any more than Honda, Toyota, and a whole bunch of other companies are going to sell their compliance cars there.

Did that sink in yet, or should I repeat it?

Plus, you already answered your question about the rebate in your state:

Can I purchase the vehicle out of state?
Yes, the vehicle can be purchased out of state. However, the vehicle first must be registered as new with the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles to be eligible for the rebate program. For more information about purchasing a vehicle out of state, go to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Interesting that you say Hyundai is absolutely hydrogen when Kia has announced an electric Soul http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2015/experience?story=hello Perhaps they're hedging their bets.

Yes, I know it's nothing until it hits the showroom floor but it sure looks real. :mrgreen:

I have actually ridden in the Kia Soul EV, and we have had it charging on our CHAdeMO charger in San Juan Capistrano, California since at least July 2013.

Yes, Kia is going to sell battery electric compliance cars and Hyundai will sell hydrogen ones.

 

[Time2go]

So the person who thinks it ok to call people Nazis or Hitler Youths is going to complain about someone telling him to shut up. I complained about your comments and you know what happened, nothing. That's why I rarely come here anymore. People like you who can't take a hint. You're not wanted here so please go away.

 

[TonyWilliams]

So the person who thinks it ok to call people Nazis or Hitler Youths is going to complain about someone telling him to shut up. I complained about your comments and you know what happened, nothing. That's why I rarely come here anymore. People like you who can't take a hint. You're not wanted here so please go away.

Thanks for enlightening us. Post reported. Hopefully, you, and the several of your not-so-pleasant buddies will also "rarely come here".

I, on the other hand, enjoy talking about EV's, so I think I'll stay. Maybe you'll go? My fingers are crossed for good luck for those of us that really don't like the same posters with the same personal attacks over and over.

 

[tigger19687]

talk about immature. Please do Report me. I could care less.

And Please Mods, PM me with any questions I would be happy to talk with you .

Why bother even reading my threads then ?

 

[Time2go]

So you going to report me for saying please go away. Go right ahead and do that. At least I don't call people names like you do. That's what Immature people do.
Don't brother responding because I won't be back. Since I refuse to be on a board that allows the name calling you use.