Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

[boatbum11]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share some info. Those of you using torque pro to monitor your Spark, there are Bolt PIDS available now, instead of using VOLT PIDS. Here is a link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sY5n8WFu52U6a4_mg3MdcGcmDk3scAP8_muSy-BlXPc/edit#gid=1125667062

I installed the Bolt PIDS and now can monitor individual battery cell temperature and charge. Also now have access to the batteries total capacity listed in KW!!

My 2014 Spark with 48,000 miles shows 15.9KW which matches my manually calculated battery capacity.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share some info. Those of you using torque pro to monitor your Spark, there are Bolt PIDS available now, instead of using VOLT PIDS. Here is a link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sY5n8WFu52U6a4_mg3MdcGcmDk3scAP8_muSy-BlXPc/edit#gid=1125667062

I installed the Bolt PIDS and now can monitor individual battery cell temperature and charge. Also now have access to the batteries total capacity listed in KW!!

My 2014 Spark with 48,000 miles shows 15.9KW which matches my manually calculated battery capacity.

I would like to be able to monitor the battery capacity in both of my Spark EVs. What do I need to be able to do this? I know nothing about Torgue Pro or how it works.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share some info. Those of you using torque pro to monitor your Spark, there are Bolt PIDS available now, instead of using VOLT PIDS. Here is a link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sY5n8WFu52U6a4_mg3MdcGcmDk3scAP8_muSy-BlXPc/edit#gid=1125667062

I installed the Bolt PIDS and now can monitor individual battery cell temperature and charge. Also now have access to the batteries total capacity listed in KW!!

My 2014 Spark with 48,000 miles shows 15.9KW which matches my manually calculated battery capacity.

I would like to be able to monitor the battery capacity in both of my Spark EVs. What do I need to be able to do this using an iPad? I know nothing about Torque Pro or how it works.

 

[boatbum11]

Hi MrDr.Morgan,

You need to get an OBDII, reader to plug into your Spark diagnostic port (located under the dash on the drivers side). The one I have is a wireless bluetooth model (https://www.ebay.com/p/OBDLink-MX-Bluetooth-Obd-II-Scan-Tool-Interface/626198486?iid=183238785408&chn=ps). Then you go to the app store on your phone and buy TorquePro. Follow the link in my post above and follow the directions on down loading the Bolt PIDS and install in TorquePro. You then have to configure your screens, select which PIDS you want to monitor and place them on your screens (you do this with the OBDII reader connected to your phone via bluetooth and with the car on, so you can see the individual PIDS working to determine if you want to place it's widget on the screen).

It's not as hard as it sounds

It's cool to be able to monitor each battery cell(s) voltage and temperature and a great tool to see if there are any issues going on there.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hi MrDr.Morgan,

You need to get an OBDII, reader to plug into your Spark diagnostic port (located under the dash on the drivers side). The one I have is a wireless bluetooth model (https://www.ebay.com/p/OBDLink-MX-Bluetooth-Obd-II-Scan-Tool-Interface/626198486?iid=183238785408&chn=ps). Then you go to the app store on your phone and buy TorquePro. Follow the link in my post above and follow the directions on down loading the Bolt PIDS and install in TorquePro. You then have to configure your screens, select which PIDS you want to monitor and place them on your screens (you do this with the OBDII reader connected to your phone via bluetooth and with the car on, so you can see the individual PIDS working to determine if you want to place it's widget on the screen).

It's not as hard as it sounds

It's cool to be able to monitor each battery cell(s) voltage and temperature and a great tool to see if there are any issues going on there.

Thanks for the info. I would like to install TorquePro on my Apple iPad Mini or my iPod Touch. However, it looks like TorquePro is an Android application only. If true, I have an old Nexus 7 that runs Android but it may too old, too slow or both. Do you know what the oldest version of Android is that will work?

 

[boatbum11]

Hi MrDr.Morgan,

You need to get an OBDII, reader to plug into your Spark diagnostic port (located under the dash on the drivers side). The one I have is a wireless bluetooth model (https://www.ebay.com/p/OBDLink-MX-Bluetooth-Obd-II-Scan-Tool-Interface/626198486?iid=183238785408&chn=ps). Then you go to the app store on your phone and buy TorquePro. Follow the link in my post above and follow the directions on down loading the Bolt PIDS and install in TorquePro. You then have to configure your screens, select which PIDS you want to monitor and place them on your screens (you do this with the OBDII reader connected to your phone via bluetooth and with the car on, so you can see the individual PIDS working to determine if you want to place it's widget on the screen).

It's not as hard as it sounds

It's cool to be able to monitor each battery cell(s) voltage and temperature and a great tool to see if there are any issues going on there.

Thanks for the info. I would like to install TorquePro on my Apple iPad Mini or my iPod Touch. However, it looks like TorquePro is an Android application only. If true, I have an old Nexus 7 that runs Android but it may too old, too slow or both. Do you know what the oldest version of Android is that will work?

On TorquePro's website they say it will run on any android platform and show it running on a Nexus S. Beyond that I have no idea. Always been an android guy, not a Mac person. My phone is a Galaxy 7 Edge. If your Nexus won't run it you can always get an Android tablet to run it on.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hi MrDr.Morgan,

You need to get an OBDII, reader to plug into your Spark diagnostic port (located under the dash on the drivers side). The one I have is a wireless bluetooth model (https://www.ebay.com/p/OBDLink-MX-Bluetooth-Obd-II-Scan-Tool-Interface/626198486?iid=183238785408&chn=ps). Then you go to the app store on your phone and buy TorquePro. Follow the link in my post above and follow the directions on down loading the Bolt PIDS and install in TorquePro. You then have to configure your screens, select which PIDS you want to monitor and place them on your screens (you do this with the OBDII reader connected to your phone via bluetooth and with the car on, so you can see the individual PIDS working to determine if you want to place it's widget on the screen).

It's not as hard as it sounds

It's cool to be able to monitor each battery cell(s) voltage and temperature and a great tool to see if there are any issues going on there.

Thanks for the info. I would like to install TorquePro on my Apple iPad Mini or my iPod Touch. However, it looks like TorquePro is an Android application only. If true, I have an old Nexus 7 that runs Android but it may too old, too slow or both. Do you know what the oldest version of Android is that will work?

On TorquePro's website they say it will run on any android platform and show it running on a Nexus S. Beyond that I have no idea. Always been an android guy, not a Mac person. My phone is a Galaxy 7 Edge. If your Nexus won't run it you can always get an Android tablet to run it on.

I found that TorquePro works with Android 2.0 or later. My Nexus 7 has Android 5.1.1 so it should work. I will download TorquePro and order an OBD2 device like yours. Then I will try to figure out how it all works. I did download the video so I think I only need to know how to get the Bolt PIDS into the Nexus.
Update: I have TorquePro installed on my Nexus 7. One question: I have no problem getting to /internal storage/.torque. But, I do not see /extendedpids/ nor can I create it. Is this file hidden and not .torque? I tried creating /extendedpids/ as a sub-file to .torque but I could not create it which suggests the file already exists but is hidden. I was able to create a new folder under .torque but I could not rename it extendedpids.

 

[boatbum11]

Yes, it is a hidden file. You have to go into settings, then "explore" and that will open internal storage where you will see all your files. One should be labeled"torque". You'll have to copy the PID file from the download folder and add it to the "Torque" folder. Then open torque pro and create your layout and select the PIDS you wish to display.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Yes, it is a hidden file. You have to go into settings, then "explore" and that will open internal storage where you will see all your files. One should be labeled"torque". You'll have to copy the PID file from the download folder and add it to the "Torque" folder. Then open torque pro and create your layout and select the PIDS you wish to display.

After a few more hours of playing with Astro, I was able to find the “extendedpids” folder. However, per the instructions I was following, I could not move the CSV file into it. Nevertheless, somehow I managed to get the CSV file into the right place and it looks like TorquePro can find it. So now I will order the OBD2 device.
Which PIDS do you have turned on when you monitor your Spark EV. I am mainly interested in the battery capacity and possibly the cell voltages.

 

[boatbum11]

There's a long list of PIDS you"ll have to scroll threw and select the ones you want. Good thing is they are active and reporting in the list ( as long as your paired to the OBDII unit and it's plugged into the port ), so it makes the decision of whether you want to watch it easier. There are specific ones reporting temperature per cell group, and voltage per cell (all 96 individually). I monitor a slew of things, total pack voltage, SOC, battery capacity, pack temperature, kw used, kw consumption in real time, charge voltage and amperage (fun to watch when fast charging to see how much power is actually going to the battery vs what's pulled from the charger), coolant pump speed, among others.

The amount of info you can monitor is quite staggering!!

 

[MrDRMorgan]

There's a long list of PIDS you"ll have to scroll threw and select the ones you want. Good thing is they are active and reporting in the list ( as long as your paired to the OBDII unit and it's plugged into the port ), so it makes the decision of whether you want to watch it easier. There are specific ones reporting temperature per cell group, and voltage per cell (all 96 individually). I monitor a slew of things, total pack voltage, SOC, battery capacity, pack temperature, kw used, kw consumption in real time, charge voltage and amperage (fun to watch when fast charging to see how much power is actually going to the battery vs what's pulled from the charger), coolant pump speed, among others.

The amount of info you can monitor is quite staggering!!

My OBDII device should be delivered to me tomorrow and I am looking forward to start testing. It seems this would be an excellent way to test the HV battery and other things in a used Spark EV before buying it.

 

[boatbum11]

My OBDII device should be delivered to me tomorrow and I am looking forward to start testing. It seems this would be an excellent way to test the HV battery and other things in a used Spark EV before buying it.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly!! You can see the battery capacity and individual cell condition before your purchase. Works for the Bolt too, when the 3 year lease vehicles hit the used market. Wish these PIDS were available when I bought my Spark, though I think I did ok in my selection and got a screaming deal.

 

[sTeeve]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share some info. Those of you using torque pro to monitor your Spark, there are Bolt PIDS available now, instead of using VOLT PIDS. Here is a link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sY5n8WFu52U6a4_mg3MdcGcmDk3scAP8_muSy-BlXPc/edit#gid=1125667062

I installed the Bolt PIDS and now can monitor individual battery cell temperature and charge. Also now have access to the batteries total capacity listed in KW!!

My 2014 Spark with 48,000 miles shows 15.9KW which matches my manually calculated battery capacity.

Woo-Hoo! This should be fun to play with! Don't forget, battery capacity is expressed as kWh. kW is a measure of power:

"kW stands for kilowatt. A kilowatt is simply 1,000 watts, which is a measure of power. So, for example, the 10,000 watt electric shower in the top bullet point above could also be called a 10 kilowatt shower.

A kilowatt hour (kWh) is a measure of energy.

So a 1,000 watt drill needs 1,000 watts (1 kW) of power to make it work, and uses 1 kWh of energy in an hour."

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/what-is-a-kwh-kw-and-kwh-explained.html

 

[MrDRMorgan]

My OBDII device should be delivered to me tomorrow and I am looking forward to start testing. It seems this would be an excellent way to test the HV battery and other things in a used Spark EV before buying it.

My thoughts exactly!! You can see the battery capacity and individual cell condition before your purchase. Works for the Bolt too, when the 3 year lease vehicles hit the used market. Wish these PIDS were available when I bought my Spark, though I think I did ok in my selection and got a screaming deal. [/quote]

I received my OBDII device and, after a few more hours of trying to figure out how to configure the report screens in TorquePro, I got everything working on my Nexus 7 tablet. I set TorquePro to report battery capacity, battery temperature and cell voltage for each of the 96 cells. I tried it on both of my Spark EVs [2014 and 2016] and it works great! Thanks for the post.

 

[boatbum11]

MrDrMorgan,

Your welcome!! I thought others would find this "hack" useful, so shared it with the community.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

MrDrMorgan,

Your welcome!! I thought others would find this "hack" useful, so shared it with the community.

I ordered another OBDLink MX Bluetooth for my other Spark EV so I can just plug it in and leave it plugged in.

I understand this "hack" works for the Chevy Bolt too. Fantastic!

Update: I have been testing my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs. One thing I noticed is the 2014 Spark EV has a full-charge cell voltage of 3.4 volts as compared to the 2016 Spark EV with a full-charge cell voltage of 4.1 volts. I assume this is because the 2014 has the A123 battery cells and the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs have the LG cells and not because of battery wear. This would mean the A123 battery probably has 118 cells as compared to the LG battery with 96 cells. Anyone know for sure?

 

[boatbum11]

I see the same 3.4 volt max on the cells in my 2014 Spark. I know the literature I have seen says 96 cells, but I think the A123 units must have more in parallel to get the 19kwh capacity of the battery, otherwise the cell voltage would be higher. I knew something was up when I divided the battery voltage by the number of cells, it should have read 3.8 volts rather than 3.4 with a full charge and only 96 cells.

Curious-er and curious-er....

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I see the same 3.4 volt max on the cells in my 2014 Spark. I know the literature I have seen says 96 cells, but I think the A123 units must have more in parallel to get the 19kwh capacity of the battery, otherwise the cell voltage would be higher. I knew something was up when I divided the battery voltage by the number of cells, it should have read 3.8 volts rather than 3.4 with a full charge and only 96 cells.

Curious-er and curious-er....

I finally found Chevrolet's specifications for the 2014 Spark EV - actually, I found the specs for 2014, 2015 and 2016.

Here is some useful information.

The A123 HV battery used in the 2014 Spark EV is built using 336 cells (3P112S configuration). The battery is rated at 21 kWh. 400 volts divided by 112 cells equals 3.57 volts per cell. 21 kWh / (3.57 V per cell X 336 cells) = 17.50 amp-hrs per cell.

My test results for my 2014 Spark EV with 14k miles on the ODO were: 17.2 kWh battery capacity, 3.41 volts avg per cell which calculates to 15.01 amp-hrs per cell. The SoC of the battery at the time of the test was 99.6% and the GOM read 98 miles after the full charge.

The LG HV battery used in the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs is built using 192 cells (2P96S configuration). The battery is rated at 19 kWh. 400 volts divided by 96 cells equals 4.17 volts per cell. 19 kWh / (4.17 V per cell X 192 cells) = 23.7 amp-hrs per cell.

My test results for my 2016 Spark EV with 10k miles on the ODO were: 16.6 kWh battery capacity, 4.13 volts avg per cell which calculates to 20.9 amp-hrs per cell. The SoC of the battery at the time of the test was 100% and the GOM read 110 miles after the full charge.

A friend of mine has both a 2015 Spark EV and a 2016 Spark EV and I will be testing these two cars too. He thinks there is a problem with his 2015 which I find interesting as my leased 2015 Spark EV, which I just turned in, looked like it suddenly lost about 1 to 1.5 kWh in battery capacity. Unfortunately, I will not be able to test it to verify the problem.

One thing is certain - I now have a baseline against which to compare future tests to see how fast the HV battery degrades.

 

[boatbum11]

Great info!! I lost about 2kwh in capacity last fall. My GOM suddenly dropped 10miles in range in about a 1/2 mile (from a fully charged battery). I did have about 43,000 miles on the clock when that happened.

Was rather distressing to see the range drop 10 miles like someone was siphoning off my charge while stopped at a light!

I saw a picture over on the Bolt forum of the Volt ( 1 & 2), Spark, and Bolt battery packs layed out together. It looks like the Spark uses the same batteries as the Volt, so we may be able to use old Volt cells to rebuild our packs in the future. :idea:

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Great info!! I lost about 2kwh in capacity last fall. My GOM suddenly dropped 10miles in range in about a 1/2 mile (from a fully charged battery). I did have about 43,000 miles on the clock when that happened.

Was rather distressing to see the range drop 10 miles like someone was siphoning off my charge while stopped at a light!

I saw a picture over on the Bolt forum of the Volt ( 1 & 2), Spark, and Bolt battery packs layed out together. It looks like the Spark uses the same batteries as the Volt, so we may be able to use old Volt cells to rebuild our packs in the future. :idea:

It would be great if the Spark EV HV battery pack could easily be rebuilt. However, at 400 VDC and high amperage, I would rather let someone, who is trained and certified to handle that voltage, rebuild my Spark's HV EV battery. Hopefully, we will have that option available to us in the near future when it is needed. I have to believe this is a business just waiting for the right time to happen. Nissian has already started doing Leaf HV battery rebuilds in Japan. Unfortunately, I do not see GM or anyone else doing the same here in the USA.