Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

[TheLondonBroiler]

I've been playing with Torque Litr (basic/free version) for just over a year. Thank you BeachBum for sharing the pid list. This will only work with pro, which I bought today ($5 is a deal). Here's my initial setup: (Long form voltage readings are to the ten thousandth of a volt and ask 96 pairs are within a hundredth of a volt of each other...damn impressive)

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I've been playing with Torque Litr (basic/free version) for just over a year. Thank you BeachBum for sharing the pid list. This will only work with pro, which I bought today ($5 is a deal). Here's my initial setup: (Long form voltage readings are to the ten thousandth of a volt and ask 96 pairs are within a hundredth of a volt of each other...damn impressive)

I agree! I use TorquePro, an OBDLink MX Bluetooth adapter and an old Nexus 7 tablet running Android 5.1.1. Works great for both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EV. However, the PIDs I use are for a Chevy Bolt which has 96 cells. This works fine for the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs which also have 96 cells. The 2014 Spark EV has 112 cells but only 96 show up. Still, this is not a problem as I use the average cell voltage for my calculations.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

The 2014 Spark EV has 112 cells but only 96 show up.

I just looked through the cell voltage Parameter IDs and I wouldn't be surprised, that if you continued the pattern, that you would get the voltage read outs.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

The 2014 Spark EV has 112 cells but only 96 show up.

I just looked through the cell voltage Parameter IDs and I wouldn't be surprised, that if you continued the pattern, that you would get the voltage read outs.

I saw that too and extending the pattern in the CSV file should not be a problem. I might give it a try by adding the remaining 16 cells. It probably would be wise to give the file a separate ID so as not to screw up the file for the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs.


Update: I added the additional cells to the PID list, saved it under a different file name and added it to the extendedpids file in my Nexus 7. Then I updated my TorquePro display pages and added displays for the additional 16 cells (Cell 97 - Cell 112). When I tried the new file on my 2014 Spark EV, all 112 cell voltages were displayed but I lost my display values for Battery Capacity and Battery Temperature. If I use my original PID file on the 2014 Spark EV, everything works fine and the extra cell displays do not show any values. I can use the original PID file to monitor both cars and the revised file to monitor all cell voltages in the 2014 Spark EV. This will work for me.

 

[jstack6]

I just took my 2015 SPARK EV in for the battery capacity test. The dealer had no idea. After 3 days I got them to call their tech assistance and they had them pull a file via the OBDII. I should get my results next week.
On my Energy Details screen I would see on 13 kWh before it went into low power at about 6 miles left.
I always get 80-90 mile range because I hypermile and get 6+ Mi/kWh all the time.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

I just took my 2015 SPARK EV in for the battery capacity test.

On my Energy Details screen I would see on 13 kWh

60% (warranty threshold) of 18kwh (usable capacity) = 10.8kwh. If you're not below that and not experiencing any problems, I believe you're wasting the dealership's time. If they offer you a free battery, let them know I have a bridge I want to sell them.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I just took my 2015 SPARK EV in for the battery capacity test. The dealer had no idea. After 3 days I got them to call their tech assistance and they had them pull a file via the OBDII. I should get my results next week.
On my Energy Details screen I would see on 13 kWh before it went into low power at about 6 miles left.
I always get 80-90 mile range because I hypermile and get 6+ Mi/kWh all the time.

80-90 mile range at 6 mi/kwh = 13.3 kWh - 15 kWh. I would suggest you find someone who has TorquePro running the Chevy Bolt .csv PID file and an OBD2 adapter and have them measure your battery capacity in order to get a more accurate measurement.

My leased 2015 Spark EV with 28K miles on the ODO was reading about 15.5 -16 kWh (Energy Screen calculations) just before I turned it in (I did not have TorquePro then). A note here - A few months prior to turning in my 2015 Spark EV, I experienced a sudden loss of ~1.5 kWh in battery capacity. Prior to the loss, my 2015 Spark EV battery capacity was running between 17 - 17.5 kWh. Unfortunately, I did not have Torque Pro then.

A friend of mine, who also had a 2015 Spark EV, had a TorquePro measured battery capacity of 14.8 kWh at about 30k miles on the ODO. For reference, my 2014 Spark EV with 15k miles on the ODO, currently has a TorquePro measured battery capacity of 17.0 kWh. My 2016 Spark EV with 12K on the ODO, currently has a TorquePro measured battery capacity of 16.8 kWh. When outside temperatures range in the 70s and 80s, I usually have a full-charge GOM range of ~100 miles for both cars. Most of my driving is in town and I always drive in L for maximum regeneration.

 

[CypressVH]

On TorquePro's website they say it will run on any android platform and show it running on a Nexus S. Beyond that I have no idea. Always been an android guy, not a Mac person. My phone is a Galaxy 7 Edge. If your Nexus won't run it you can always get an Android tablet to run it on.

Any known solutions for iPhone users?

 

[CypressVH]

Using the GOM and battery usage estimates, my 2014 spark EV seems to have dropped to 15.7kWh capacity with about 30k on the odometer. Full charge GOM is now around 78.

 

[Jedi2155]

Using the GOM and battery usage estimates, my 2014 spark EV seems to have dropped to 15.7kWh capacity with about 30k on the odometer. Full charge GOM is now around 78.

Mines was around 15.5 to 16.5 depending on temperature (15.5 in early part of the year, but it went back to 16+ by summer). GOM isn't really a accurate way to measure capacity compared to the energy used and percentage. As my job shifted from a 14 mile round trip to a 60 mile round trip near the beginning of the year, I was getting into yellow regularly and occasionally to 90%+ usage so I had a good grasp of my capacity.

Also I checked my manual for warranty, for the 2014 spark, it was warrantied to about 70% of original capacity which meant once it started reaching 13.4 kWh, you might have a claim. If I had kept my Spark, I would probably be able to claim warranty near the end of the 8 year term since my car was probably among the last 2014's sold (4/30/15).

 

[user 1323]

So I got a used Spark EV in July 2018 and the OBD Torque Pro battery capacity read 15.8 kWh. Then, to my surprise, last month it went up to 15.9! And just this week it went up again, to 16.0. Has anyone seen this before? I assume it may be due to my different driving and charging style than the previous owner... but that's not efficiency, it's usable capacity so hmm. I'm pretty paranoid about outside temps so I keep it in a cool garage when it's hot and don't fill it up to 100% often, plus I don't use fast charging. Not sure if any of that helps... but I'll take a slightly higher capacity.

I'm also curious if the car might slightly up the total usable battery over time to keep the EPA range stable for longer. (This is me just speculating.) Today the raw Soc read 97.2 when I charged it to 100% on the Soc meter. I'm curious if, over time, the car might let me use more of the raw capacity. I'm putting the number here so I have a reference number to come back to in a few months

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

Then, to my surprise, last month it went up to 15.9! And just this week it went up again, to 16.0. Has anyone seen this before?

Best I saw was a .0133 kwh increase after I almost fully depleted the battery, then charged to full.

I'm also curious if the car might slightly up the total usable battery over time to keep the EPA range stable for longer. (This is me just speculating.) Today the raw Soc read 97.2 when I charged it to 100% on the Soc meter. I'm curious if, over time, the car might let me use more of the raw capacity.

I don't believe even a car like the volt, which has a huge battery reserve, will do this, but I could be wrong.. We only have a "supposed/official" single kwh between total capacity and usable. The Spark considers itself full at 97%, according to Torque. If you dcfc you will see this also. You can get it to 100%, if you ever REALLY need to, by leaving it plugged in on an L2 charger, and turning on the car with a slight (hvac) power draw. Also I occasionally see 100% if I L2 charge and the vehicle has just finished charging (and hasn't balanced the cells?).

 

[Largo16]

New owner here as of last week. Didn’t lurk these forums prior to owning and I’m concerned like others here. My 2015 Spark EV is charging to 62mi of range though it only has ~22,000 on the clock. It is cold here is Seattle, reaching down into the 30s overnight. Using what I’ve read on the forums, I just did the ‘screen based’ battery capacity calculation yeilding 14.35 as the capacity. This is only one data point and I’m interested to know if anyone has reached the threshold for replacement and how that process goes. Seeing that I theoretically have 5yrs/75K miles to reach the threshold - it seems likely. If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.

Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.

Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.

My 2014 Spark EV HV battery Limited Warranty has an upper limit of 35% and I believe my leased 2015 Spark EV ( turned in in June 18) also had an upper limit of 35%. My 2016 Spark EV Limited Warranty shows the upper limit increased to 40%.

 

[SparkE]

Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.

My 2014 Spark EV HV battery Limited Warranty has an upper limit of 35% and I believe my leased 2015 Spark EV ( turned in in June 18) also had an upper limit of 35%. My 2016 Spark EV Limited Warranty shows the upper limit increased to 40%.

Interesting point I hadn't considered. When buying used, should one get the WORST one available, expecting the battery to be replaced before the warranty ends (so one isn't left at 33% less capacity), or should one pay more to get the best one available?

 

[NORTON]

Interesting point I hadn't considered. When buying used, should one get the WORST one available, expecting the battery to be replaced before the warranty ends ...

Funny! :lol:

But a valid point !! :!:

 

[agdodgerfan]

Hey everyone. Haven't been online in a bit and haven't read entire thread but it looks like you have figured out how to test battery capacity. I believe my spark might have highest mileage out there at almost 107k. Anyone in LA area with a tester want to check the capacity to report in the forum? I would say at least 30 to 40% of my charging has been level 3. Let me know if anyone is interested. I will try to remember to check back in here. I am also gonna consider trying various modifications on it since I no longer have warranty and only 1 payment left.

 

[NORTON]

Hey everyone. ..... I believe my spark might have highest mileage out there at almost 107k. Anyone in LA area with a tester want to check the capacity to report in the forum? .....

You Da'Man !!
It would be great to get the detailed Capacity reading thru OBD-II port.

But what if you start logging the values from the 'Energy Usage Page'?
Start writing down the "kWh and % Used" when you use the car to low mile range. Some say anything <50% is a valid test point.

It would be interesting to see what your notes add up to versus what the car reports just one time thru the OBD-II.

 

[agdodgerfan]

I honestly don't think that's accurate I think it doesn't take into account region because when I did try and track in the past it was all over the place. I think it might be OK to estimate but that's about it. Today I was fully charged when I left my house. 52% says 7.3 key used so I am just over 14kwh capacity.