Battery degredation

[MoldyWalnuts]

so this is what i'm getting after my no A/C run to the store just now. with 51% usage the HV battery capacity is up to 16.27 kWh.

 

[MoldyWalnuts]

last calculated HV battery capacity before i recharge is 16.375 kWh

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

last calculated HV battery capacity before i recharge is 16.375 kWh

That's pretty good considering the amount of miles on it. It would be interesting to see all the usage data (number of fast charges, daily SOC data, lifetime battery temps), to see correlations between degradation and particular use cases. GM certainly has this data and hopefully is making more good use of it (they made the Bolt and did a pretty good job).

 

[MoldyWalnuts]

not bad at all, 16.375 kWh is 86.2% of 19 kWh new battery capacity after 4 years of use. still it doesn't explain the sudden drop in the GOM from about 100 miles in March of '19, when i bought the car, to about 80 miles right now... then again, perhaps the GOM has simply become more accurate, since new Spark EVs, if i'm not mistaken, were rated at 82 miles, not 100 like it used to show.

also, imho, mileage is not a showstopper with EVs, but HV battery age is and mine is 4 years old this June. i bought it for much less because of this "high" mileage but i didn't think much of it since the HV battery was relatively fresh and the car's condition was excellent indicating mostly freeway miles. i'm just hoping that the previous owner mostly used 120V to charge it overnight for his daily commute like i do, but i'll never know that...

to add, so far i've replaced the front tires which were original and still had some thread left but they were cheap ($40 a piece at onlinetires.com which i recommend because they will match lower prices that you will find online and also offer free shipping) and i did the work myself with the help of harbor freight tire irons and bubble balancer. by the way, i installed the tires with the red dot facing the air nipple and the balancing was perfect, there was no need to change the weights. just a little bonus i got for all my hard work

 

[NORTON]

so this is what i'm getting after my no A/C run to the store just now. with 51% usage the HV battery capacity is up to 16.27 kWh.

You say you didn't have the cabin AC on and yet the display shows only 'Climate Settings' power usage.
Does that mean that battery cooling is not displayed as Batter Conditioning, even though that's the only thing using the AC's power???

I know in the winter I can see Climate and BC displayed.
As I said, there are two separate coolant loops with their own coolant heaters, one for the cabin and one for the battery.

Maybe it doesn't even try to show where AC power is being used and just displays it as Climate Settings.

Strange.
If so, you still can learn something new about this car. Does the Bolt display power usage the same way?

 

[marcusku]

Newbie in search of a 2016 Spark. I'm looking at one with about 30k miles and the dealer said they would take it to a Chevy dealer to test the capacity. In reading other posts looks like I should expect around 14-15 kWh? Any opinions on what number would be unacceptable? I'll probably only be driving 10 miles/day so shouldn't matter so much but I do live in WI so I'll lose a lot of capacity in the winter.

Do batteries degrade based more on time or miles? i.e should I look harder for one with lower miles?

Thanks!

 

[NORTON]

....the dealer said they would take it to a Chevy dealer to test the capacity. ...

You can get the real number yourself by taking it on a 1 to 1.5 hr test drive. Don't you pay for any official testing. Don't you pay asking price. :lol:
Look at 'Trusted Professions'. See where used car salesmen are? Don't believe most of what they say. They have that status for a reason.... :roll:

You do the math from the numbers shown on the 'Energy Usage' page after the long test drive.
You have to start with the battery fully charged, ideally you watch them unplug it and then drive it until you use more than 50%, hopefully lots more.

I wouldn't sweat it..... Are there any Spark EV's with really bad batteries compared to others?

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

Newbie in search of a 2016 Spark. I'm looking at one with about 30k miles and the dealer said they would take it to a Chevy dealer to test the capacity. In reading other posts looks like I should expect around 14-15 kWh?

So long as the battery warranty is valid, I see this as a moot point. 14kwh for a 2016 "SHOULD BE" the basement.

Any opinions on what number would be unacceptable? I'll probably only be driving 10 miles/day so shouldn't matter so much but I do live in WI so I'll lose a lot of capacity in the winter.

The worst capacity I recall hearing about was 13kwh on a '15, but if you're only driving 10 miles per day, even that would be more than sufficient. That being said, I think it's safe to say, there are going to be instances where you'll want/need to drive further, and you REALLY need to ask yourself if the Spark will work for you in those instances. When I was buying mine, I was commuting 60 miles roundtrip with no charging at work, so I set 16kwh as a minimum (the Spark wasn't a particularly good choice for my particular use case). Keep in mind, the 2016 battery warranty threshold is 60% for 2016, so Chevy isn't liable to do squat unless you fall below 10.8kwh, and even then (depending on the dealership) you might have to kick and scream for them to fulfill their warranty obligations.

Do batteries degrade based more on time or miles? i.e should I look harder for one with lower miles?

This is the million dollar question that there's no solid answer to. There are so many variables that can impact capacity that it's impossible to say or know. Storing a Spark at 100% or "0%" for long periods can be very detrimental. Lots of fast charging, heavy acceleration, and full discharge cycles are supposedly bad too. The only thing that you could remotely have a clue to past treatment, is if it still has original tires on the front and there's very little tread wear (they have the week and year of manufacture on them), you might assume the previous driver rarely, if ever, drove it hard.

I'm really getting into the weeds here (and I could go further, but I don't think it would be helpful), the bottom line, most important question, is still, Is this vehicle going to work for you and meet your needs?

I know this next statement is unsolicited, off topic, and I apologize in advance if it's not helpful, but if I knew 2.5 years ago what I know now, I would have bought a Volt instead of a Spark. I really do like the Spark, but the Volt would have been so much more appropriate for MY use scenarios.

Good luck

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I have been fortunate to have driven all three model years and I still have the 2014 and 2016 models. Here is the battery degradation I have experienced for each model year -

2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC - leased (calculated from Energy Information screen data)
1. 01 Jul 15: 1414 miles on ODO - calculated battery capacity was 18.8 kWh
2. 05 Dec 17: 24008 miles on ODO - Check engine light came on, charging part replaced, battery capacity dropped 1.3 kWh (17.09 kWh to 15.79kWh) after repair.
3. 31Mar 2018: 26508 miles on ODO - calculated battery capacity was 15.5 kWh

2014 Spark EV 2LT without DCFC - TorquePro measurements
1. 10 June 2018: 14144 miles on ODO - 17.2 kWh
2. 26 July 2020: 24207 miles on ODO - 15.0 kWh

2016 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC - TorquePro measurements
1. 10 June 2018: 10284 miles on the ODO - 16.6 kWh
2. 20 June 2020: 31229 miles on the ODO: 14.4 kWh

Using TorquePro, I also measured the battery capacity for a friend of mine, who had a leased 2016 Spark EV and was getting ready to turn it in. His ODO was around 33K miles. The TorquePro measurement was 14.8 kWh.

 

[ElDobro]

My battery's holding at 12.4kWh, and I still don't have any issues with my range.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

My battery's holding at 12.4kWh, and I still don't have any issues with my range.

At my current rates of degradation, my 2014 Spark EV will hit the battery replacement threshold at 12.4 kWh and my 2016 at 11.4 kWh. The real question is will the degradation continue at the present rate, which, if it does, I will be able to make a warranty claim for each car.

Currently, GOM range is not an issue for either car. The 2014 is used for local driving. The 2016 is used mainly for local driving with some drives into the Bay Area. As long as the EA and EVgo stations continue working, I have no problems. But, recent bad charging experiences make me question how reliable the EA stations really are. EVgo almost always works.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

My battery's holding at 12.4kWh, and I still don't have any issues with my range.

Dude! Yours is a 2016 too, isn't it? Regardless of whether it meets your needs or not, I think you'll be on solid ground to take advantage of the battery warranty this winter or next.

 

[marcusku]

Thanks for the replies. The car will be for local driving only. My wife has a Bolt and I have a VW TDI Sportwagen for long trips. Most people would argue why I "need" it all but it pains me to start the car for only a few miles--I know it's weird.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of driving it beforehand because I'm in WI and there are almost no Spark EV near me. Not my first choice to buy a car solely on pictures but I figure the big ticket items are under warranty. Smaller stuff the risk will be on me.

So the battery warranty varies by year? Is 2016 not necessary the best choice? I really wanted a 2016 with the idea the battery is newer and hopefully GM worked out a few of the bugs after a couple of years.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Thanks for the replies. The car will be for local driving only. My wife has a Bolt and I have a VW TDI Sportwagen for long trips. Most people would argue why I "need" it all but it pains me to start the car for only a few miles--I know it's weird.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of driving it beforehand because I'm in WI and there are almost no Spark EV near me. Not my first choice to buy a car solely on pictures but I figure the big ticket items are under warranty. Smaller stuff the risk will be on me.

So the battery warranty varies by year? Is 2016 not necessary the best choice? I really wanted a 2016 with the idea the battery is newer and hopefully GM worked out a few of the bugs after a couple of years.

Having had the opportunity to extensively drive all three model years, my vote for the best of the three is the 2016 Spark EV followed by the 2014 Spark EV. For some reason, the 2015 Spark EV seemed to have some problems. My 2014 and 2016 have both been trouble-free, were both purchased as used vehicles and I have no plans to part with either of them.

 

[ElDobro]

My battery's holding at 12.4kWh, and I still don't have any issues with my range.

Dude! Yours is a 2016 too, isn't it? Regardless of whether it meets your needs or not, I think you'll be on solid ground to take advantage of the battery warranty this winter or next.

2015. The car usually drops to 11.5 kWh during Winter, so I'll check in at the dealer I bought my Volt from. In NJ, there's no such thing as a Bolt dealer.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

My battery's holding at 12.4kWh, and I still don't have any issues with my range.

Dude! Yours is a 2016 too, isn't it? Regardless of whether it meets your needs or not, I think you'll be on solid ground to take advantage of the battery warranty this winter or next.

2015. The car usually drops to 11.5 kWh during Winter, so I'll check in at the dealer I bought my Volt from. In NJ, there's no such thing as a Bolt dealer.

For my 2016 Spark EV: At 10,284 miles the battery capacity was 16.6 kWh. Today, at 31,229 miles, the battery capacity is 14.4 kWh. There are 125 data points in between and the plotted curve shows a constant downward trend with one "flattening out" at around 20k miles and a second flattening out starting at 29700 miles (March 2020). Overall, the battery is degrading about 1.0 kWh every 9500 miles. My current projection is I hit the warranty point when the battery capacity hits 11.4 kWh or at about 60k miles on the ODO if the present degradation rate continues. It is going to be close!

But, even with an 11.4 kwh battery capacity and my average 6.01 mi/kWh, I will still have a full charge range of about 68 miles. This still works for me even taking into consideration the summer and winter variations. I will just have to charge more often if I venture out of town - assuming working chargers are available and not spaced too far apart.

 

[marcusku]

A Chevy dealer should be able to test the capacity of the battery shouldn't they by plugging in a diagnostic tester? I've been really getting the run around. It would be nice to know before purchasing but maybe I shouldn't worry about it since it is still under warranty.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

I've been really getting the run around. It would be nice to know before purchasing but maybe I shouldn't worry about it since it is still under warranty.

A dealer giving you the run around?! I don't believe it :lol: jk.

It's natural to want the most for your money and to get the best you can. Theoretically you win if it's high or low (assuming you get a new pack under warranty, which is no guarantee, rather bringing capacity to 60% or 11.4kwh, for 2016, is all that's guaranteed (it's 65% for '14 & '15)).

You can get an instant estimated capacity figure by using an obd scanner and torque pro (~$15 if you already have an android phone, and it's a really useful tool for MOST 1996 newer vehicles). Shameless self promotion, I made a video (okay, it's not that good) explaining the process of setup (which isn't particularly well done either, haha, better than nothing I guess).
https://youtu.be/LjqDk08x9EY

 

[marcusku]

Two dealers now have told me that they do not have a way to give me the theoretical capacity but plugging into the car's computer. So if this is true how do they determine of the battery is below the threshold?

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

Two dealers now have told me that they do not have a way to give me the theoretical capacity but plugging into the car's computer. So if this is true how do they determine of the battery is below the threshold?

If they're not "Volt" or EV certified, they're allegedly not able to work on EVs or PHEVs.

Edit: In which event, they probably shouldn't sell them either... not that it would stop them from doing so.