Battery degredation

[fizzit]

Just for reference, how does this compare to 'On Screen' Leaf page data for battery capacity?

You might already know this, but I just wanted to note for others reading that the Energy Consumption screen in the car is not an accurate of the battery capacity because it accounts for regenerated energy in the percentage used but not in the kWh consumed. So if you have a 10kWh battery and you used 2kWh driving up a hill and regenerated 1kWh driving down it, it would display 10% of the battery used and 2kWh consumed, leading you to calculate that you have a 20kWh capacity.

Edit: never mind, I was very wrong.

 

[scrambler]

In my experience it accounts for both just fine.
As I regen both the % AND the kWh go back

 

[fizzit]

In my experience it accounts for both just fine.
As I regen both the % AND the kWh go back

Huh, strange. I know it doesn't rewind the kWh if you plug it in and don't fully charge it. But I might be wrong about the regen.

 

[scrambler]

Adding charge will definitely mess it up

 

[SparkyJ]

(Taken from pushev article comparing spark and bolt with lg chem cells)The Chevrolet Spark EV battery is made with 192 (2p96s) LG Chem cells, each cell is rated at 27 Ah and 3.75 V. This represents a total of 19.44 kwh (192 x 27 Ah x 3.75 V). The battery volume is 135 L and the mass is 215 kg, this means an energy density of 144 Wh/L and 90 Wh/kg at the battery level, not cell.”

One thing to note, the energy display is not accurate very often. I finally got around to inputting the PID's in torque to read data and it reports 16.1kwh for the battery, I will keep an eye on that as well to see if it is accurate. The energy display can show anywhere from roughly 17.6 kwh to 16.2 kwh on any given day...way off IMO and not to be trusted. Hopefully the reporting from the torque app will be accurate. Also I would suspect the usable kwh from a new 2015 or 2016 spark ev to be around 17.4kwh, about 21k miles on my spark and at 16.1kwh, a bit sad as most of the time from the energy display I was calculating around 17 kwh more often than not. But I guess 16.1 isn't terrible as long as the degradation is slow. If 17.4 is the usable capacity, then losing 1.3 kwh from a battery in a spark sold over 3 years ago really shouldn't be frowned upon.

So 28,400 miles....14.8 kwh =1.3 kwh loss in a bit over a year. Seems fine considering I charge daily during the week on the 8a or occasionally 12a setting.

Btw I believe I figured out our 'new' usable capacity for 15' and 16's. Kind of right in our faces the whole time....you guys judge if it makes sense. Our sparks are rated at 82 miles new and whenever you reset the trip miles/kwh's it defaults to 4.4 miles per kwh...so 4.4 x 18.64 = 82. What does the 14's show....4.2miles per kwh? If so about 19.5 kwh usable, so each would have about 1kwh overhead according to the documentation we have.

For as many cycles my battery has had, just since I owned it. I think these packs hold up pretty good. Also worth noting, I still see 120kw power output down to about 35% soc, so no peak power loss.

 

[boatbum11]

My Spark has 59,800 miles and Torque pro says the battery is at 15.1kwh!! Think it's doing very well for a 2014 baby. :lol:

 

[fizzit]

I'm now down to 13.07 kWh, which is 71% of the original capacity, on my 2015 Spark. Is anyone else's lower than this? At this rate I'll be at 65% capacity (11.96 kWh) within a year.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I'm now down to 13.07 kWh, which is 71% of the original capacity, on my 2015 Spark. Is anyone else's lower than this? At this rate I'll be at 65% capacity (11.96 kWh) within a year.

My first Spark EV was a leased 2015. At 1414 miles my "calculated" battery capacity was 18.8 kWh. When I turned it in 3 years later and at 30k miles, it was down to 15.5 kWh.

 

[user 2154]

Just tested my 2015 at around 37k and I'm at 14.7. I used Torque Pro and the Bolt PIDs.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Just tested my 2015 at around 37k and I'm at 14.7. I used Torque Pro and the Bolt PIDs.

Drew. Thanks for your post. I sure would like to see Spark EV drivers, who are using TorquePro with the Bolt PIDs, post their model year, mileage and current "TorquePro" battery capacity too. This will give us a more "realistic" picture of what degradation we can expect to see over time. At 26,500 miles, the "calculated" battery capacity for my leased 2015 Spark EV 2LT was 15.5 kWh. At 28,116 miles on my 2016 Spark EV, my TorquePro measured battery capacity is 14.6 kWh. At 21,964 miles on my 2014 Spark EV, my TorquePro measured battery capacity is 15.3 kWh.

 

[user 2154]

No problem. I agree it would be helpful if folks who have the information could share where they are at in terms of mileage and battery capacity.

Just a quick correction though: I'm actually at 39,397 miles and my capacity per Torque Pro and the Bolt PIDs is 14.7.

I should also note that I am a heavy user of DC Fast charging as I live in the central city without a garage. I commute about 40 miles round trip into the suburbs 5 days a week. So, i would say I use fast charging about 3 to 4 times a week. I try and use free level 1 charging provided by employer as much as possible, but with only 5 outlets the competition is fierce. I know this should severely impact the battery so am really hoping GM honors their warranty. I am in California and believe the warranty is mandated to 10 years. Fingers crossed.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

No problem. I agree it would be helpful if folks who have the information could share where they are at in terms of mileage and battery capacity.

Just a quick correction though: I'm actually at 39,397 miles and my capacity per Torque Pro and the Bolt PIDs is 14.7.

I should also note that I am a heavy user of DC Fast charging as I live in the central city without a garage. I commute about 40 miles round trip into the suburbs 5 days a week. So, i would say I use fast charging about 3 to 4 times a week. I try and use free level 1 charging provided by employer as much as possible, but with only 5 outlets the competition is fierce. I know this should severely impact the battery so am really hoping GM honors their warranty. I am in California and believe the warranty is mandated to 10 years. Fingers crossed.

I know nothing about California having a different warranty than that offered by GM. But, the product specification for the 2014 Spark EV states the battery is 21 kWh. The warranty is for 8 years or 35% degradation. If the battery degrades 35%, it will have 13.6 kWh left. If my degradation trendline continues as it has so far, I will hit that limit at about 29k miles or in about 2 more years at my current driving rate. My battery warranty will end on 4 April 2022 (8 years from when the car was first registered. I am the second owner.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

Last I checked, my 2015 is still @ 14.0 via Torque Pro. Very interesting use case, as I don't drive it but once every 2-3 months, and degradation has slowed/stopped since.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Last I checked, my 2015 is still @ 14.0 via Torque Pro. Very interesting use case, as I don't drive it but once every 2-3 months, and degradation has slowed/stopped since.

How many miles do you currently have on your 2015?

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

How many miles do you currently have on your 2015?

Approx 46,000. My Bolt it catching up with 42,XXX.... The Bolt has no noticeable degradation. Unfortunately torque pro gives a nonsense number for bat capacity, as GM/LG apparently changed something to do with the PID or calculation, when they went to the 66kwh pack (from 60kwh).

 

[ElDobro]

During the Summer, Torque Pro had the Spark's capacity at 12.4, today it's at 11.5 with 39,866 on the clock. Using heat in the Winter and A/C in the Summer, the GOM usually averages low 50s now and high 70s- low 80s in the Summer.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

During the Summer, Torque Pro had the Spark's capacity at 12.4, today it's at 11.5 with 39,866 on the clock. Using heat in the Winter and A/C in the Summer, the GOM usually averages low 50s now and high 70s- low 80s in the Summer.

Have you discussed your battery capacity degradation with a Chevy Dealer who works on Bolts too? The rated battery capacity [energy] for a 2015 Spark EV is 18.4 kWh. The warranty for the battery is 8 years, 100K miles or more than 35% degradation - which ever comes first. 35% degradation means your battery capacity must drop below 11.96 kWh to qualify. It looks like you have already dropped below that point at 37.5% degradation per the Torque Pro numbers. I think you have a good argument for a replacement battery.

 

[ElDobro]

During the Summer, Torque Pro had the Spark's capacity at 12.4, today it's at 11.5 with 39,866 on the clock. Using heat in the Winter and A/C in the Summer, the GOM usually averages low 50s now and high 70s- low 80s in the Summer.

Have you discussed your battery capacity degradation with a Chevy Dealer who works on Bolts too? The rated battery capacity [energy] for a 2015 Spark EV is 18.4 kWh. The warranty for the battery is 8 years, 100K miles or more than 35% degradation - which ever comes first. 35% degradation means your battery capacity must drop below 11.96 kWh to qualify. It looks like you have already dropped below that point at 37.5% degradation per the Torque Pro numbers. I think you have a good argument for a replacement battery.

When I get the time, I fully intend to pursue this with the Chevy dealer.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

During the Summer, Torque Pro had the Spark's capacity at 12.4, today it's at 11.5 with 39,866 on the clock. Using heat in the Winter and A/C in the Summer, the GOM usually averages low 50s now and high 70s- low 80s in the Summer.

Have you discussed your battery capacity degradation with a Chevy Dealer who works on Bolts too? The rated battery capacity [energy] for a 2015 Spark EV is 18.4 kWh. The warranty for the battery is 8 years, 100K miles or more than 35% degradation - which ever comes first. 35% degradation means your battery capacity must drop below 11.96 kWh to qualify. It looks like you have already dropped below that point at 37.5% degradation per the Torque Pro numbers. I think you have a good argument for a replacement battery.

When I get the time, I fully intend to pursue this with the Chevy dealer.

Great! Please continue to post your experiences with the dealer. I estimate my 2016 Spark EV will hit the 40% degradation warranty point sometime in early January 2024. My battery warranty will end in June 2024 so it will be close.

 

[ChadTi99]

Just wanted to share my battery degradation experience. I purchased my 2016 Spark EV In October of 2019 with around 23k miles and the initial reading was 15.47kwh. Now at 28k miles the latest reading was 14.40kwh just a few days ago. I’ve tried my best to baby the battery and I’ve only fast charged once but who knows what the previous two owners have done.