DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger, etc.

[Chaconzies]

CHAdeMO: 5467 charge points to >230,000 vehicles — 1:>42 (1 charge point for every >42 vehicles)
CCS: 50(?) charge points to 4001(?) — >1:80 (>1 charge point for every 80 vehicles—assuming more CCS charge points have been installed in the past 3 months, the ratio will be closer to the CHAdeMO's.)


***************

2) SAE CCS Combo1, or "J1772 DC" - approximately 50 in the USA (and worldwide) as of Dec 2014 - (not updated to March 2015)

EVs compatible include:
*GM Spark EV - about 1000 cars (adding about 50 per month in two CARB-ZEV states) (approximate)
*BMW i3 - 3000 cars sold in USA through 1 Oct 2014 (not updated to March 2015)
*VW eGolf (1 sold Oct 31, 2014) (not updated to March 2015)

The ratio for CCS is probably lower because there's a good number of Spark EVs being sold with out the fast charging option.

 

[user 527]

The ratio for CCS is probably lower because there's a good number of Spark EVs being sold with out the fast charging option.

This would actually prove my point even more, that the ratio of CCS-equipped vehicles to installed charge points/stations is greater. In fact, if gra is correct (134 CCS stations in the US, not 50, as Tony suggests), then the ration of CCS stations to vehicles is better than CHAdeMO. No, that doesn't mean it's easier to find a station—obviously, for now, far from it—but it's important to note that the QC infrastructure is as healthy in this regard as the vastly more common CHAdeMO, albeit much, much smaller.

 

[gra]

The ratio for CCS is probably lower because there's a good number of Spark EVs being sold with out the fast charging option.

This would actually prove my point even more, that the ratio of CCS-equipped vehicles to installed charge points/stations is greater. In fact, if gra is correct (134 CCS stations in the US, not 50, as Tony suggests), then the ration of CCS stations to vehicles is better than CHAdeMO. No, that doesn't mean it's easier to find a station—obviously, for now, far from it—but it's important to note that the QC infrastructure is as healthy in this regard as the vastly more common CHAdeMO, albeit much, much smaller.

At the moment, in the two states that the Spark is sold in (with Maryland coming soon if not already) I'd say the CCS infrastructure is already healthier in California than CHAdeMO, both because of the car/charger ratio and because so many of the early CHAdeMOs were put in at dealers or in other lousy locations, and many of them were very unreliable (Blinks). In Oregon the situation isn't as good, but the Portland and Salem areas have a reasonable number. Car Charging Group seems to have made considerable improvement in reliability to the Blinks since taking over from Ecotality, but they'e still often in poor locations. I think the CCS/CHAdeMO dual standard units going in now almost constitute a whole new network, given their generally better locations.

 

[gra]

For those who might care, CCS-2 chargers in Europe have now exceeded 800 (801 as of 3/10): http://insideevs.com/europe-exceed-800-ccs-chargers-installed/

What possible relevance the number of chargers of this or that type in Europe or anywhere else outside of North America has to the typical American and/or Canadian BEV owner, who will never ship their car overseas and are only concerned with the chargers they can use here, I don't know, but some people seem to think this info is important.

 

[cwerdna]

For those who might care, CCS-2 chargers in Europe have now exceeded 800 (801 as of 3/10): http://insideevs.com/europe-exceed-800-ccs-chargers-installed/

What possible relevance the number of chargers of this or that type in Europe or anywhere else outside of North America has to the typical American and/or Canadian BEV owner, who will never ship their car overseas and are only concerned with the chargers they can use here, I don't know, but some people seem to think this info is important.

Combo2 is even less relevant to Canadian or American BEV owners as there are no automakers shipping any vehicles in the US nor Canada w/Combo2. The SAE Combo version in use here is the plug incompatible Combo1.

 

[user 527]

For those who might care, CCS-2 chargers in Europe have now exceeded 800 (801 as of 3/10): http://insideevs.com/europe-exceed-800-ccs-chargers-installed/

What possible relevance the number of chargers of this or that type in Europe or anywhere else outside of North America has to the typical American and/or Canadian BEV owner, who will never ship their car overseas and are only concerned with the chargers they can use here, I don't know, but some people seem to think this info is important.

Combo2 is even less relevant to Canadian or American BEV owners as there are no automakers shipping any vehicles in the US nor Canada w/Combo2. The SAE Combo version in use here is the plug incompatible Combo1.

Six of one, half dozen the other (Combo2 plugs are incompatible to Combo1).

And of course, CHAdeMO plugs are even less relevant to Spark EV owners than Combo2 plugs. And yet...we are an open-minded group, willing to discuss common foreign languages (read, various QC plugs).

 

[gra]

For those who might care, CCS-2 chargers in Europe have now exceeded 800 (801 as of 3/10): http://insideevs.com/europe-exceed-800-ccs-chargers-installed/

What possible relevance the number of chargers of this or that type in Europe or anywhere else outside of North America has to the typical American and/or Canadian BEV owner, who will never ship their car overseas and are only concerned with the chargers they can use here, I don't know, but some people seem to think this info is important.

Combo2 is even less relevant to Canadian or American BEV owners as there are no automakers shipping any vehicles in the US nor Canada w/Combo2. The SAE Combo version in use here is the plug incompatible Combo1.

Which was rather my point. Virtually all Spark owners in the U.S. don't care how many CCS-2, CHAdeMO, Tesla, GB or any other chargers may or may not be present in China, Finland, or Australia, because their cars will never travel to any of those countries or their continents - the number of chargers of each type on the moon would have about the same relevance. The only thing that matters to them is the number of CCS-1 chargers they can use in their area. For _potential_ BEV owners, what charger infrastructure of what types is available to them in their area is relevant, but unless they have plans to move frequently, the nationwide density of any particular charger standard in the U.S. (unless they own a Tesla) is likely equally irrelevant: current BEVs are all limited-range local cars, and most people are unlikely to take them more than one QC away from home, so as long as the local metro area has enough of the right type they're good to go.

 

[TonyWilliams]

CHAdeMO: 5467 charge points to >230,000 vehicles — 1:>42 (1 charge point for every >42 vehicles)
CCS: 50(?) charge points to 4001(?) — >1:80 (>1 charge point for every 80 vehicles—assuming more CCS charge points have been installed in the past 3 months, the ratio will be closer to the CHAdeMO's.)


***************

2) SAE CCS Combo1, or "J1772 DC" - approximately 50 in the USA (and worldwide) as of Dec 2014 - (not updated to March 2015)

EVs compatible include:
*GM Spark EV - about 1000 cars (adding about 50 per month in two CARB-ZEV states) (approximate)
*BMW i3 - 3000 cars sold in USA through 1 Oct 2014 (not updated to March 2015)
*VW eGolf (1 sold Oct 31, 2014) (not updated to March 2015)

The ratio for CCS is probably lower because there's a good number of Spark EVs being sold with out the fast charging option.

Updated:

1) CHAdeMO - 5467 Worldwide (6 March 2015)

EVs compatible with CHAdeMO include:

*Nissan LEAF - over 75,000 in the USA (19 Mar 2015) and over 160,000 worldwide

*Kia Soul EV - 476 (28 Feb 2015)

*Tesla (all except Roadster) with Tesla supplied adaptor, 40,000 US sales, 55,000 worldwide (28 Feb 2015), number of physical adaptors less than 1000 (28 Feb 2015)


***************

3) SAE CCS Combo1, or "J1772 DC" - approximately 150 in the USA (and worldwide) as of March 2015

EVs compatible include (note: not all sold cars are physically equipped with CCS port):

*GM Spark EV - 1,889 US sales, adding about 50-100 per month in three CARB-ZEV states only (28 Feb 2015)
*BMW i3 - 7,851 US sales (28 Feb 2015)
*VW eGolf - 668 US sales (28 Feb 2015)

 

[ezryder]

*GM Spark EV - 1,889 US sales, adding about 50-100 per month in three CARB-ZEV states only (28 Feb 2015)
*BMW i3 - 7,851 US sales (28 Feb 2015)
*VW eGolf - 668 US sales (28 Feb 2015)

I'm amazed that BMW has sold so many i3's versus the Spark. I think it's mainly due to the fact that NO ONE I have talked to about my car has ever heard of it. Not one person. But they have heard of the i3. I test drove the i3 REx. Not impressed. It was OK, mind you, but just not worth almost double the price, comparably equipped to the Spark EV. And, I just think the Spark EV is more fun all around. The REx was tempting for the additional (gas) miles, but... in the end, $51,000 just didn't seem worth it - and besides, half the reason for my wanting an EV is to get rid of the maintenance of a gas engine. I tried the eGolf, too. Fun, and more comfortable than the Spark or the i3, in my opinion, but very boring gauge package and just boring in general. Plus it has a whine to it that sounds like feedback on car speakers. Also, not worth the extra $10k, or so.

 

[cwerdna]

*GM Spark EV - 1,889 US sales, adding about 50-100 per month in three CARB-ZEV states only (28 Feb 2015)
*BMW i3 - 7,851 US sales (28 Feb 2015)
*VW eGolf - 668 US sales (28 Feb 2015)

I'm amazed that BMW has sold so many i3's versus the Spark. I think it's mainly due to the fact that NO ONE I have talked to about my car has ever heard of it. Not one person. But they have heard of the i3.

It helps that the i3 is available in WAY more states than the Spark EV. It also doesn't help that the Spark EV's marketing seems to very close to nil, if it isn't nil.

 

[ezryder]

It helps that the i3 is available in WAY more states than the Spark EV.

Ah. I didn't realize that.

It also doesn't help that the Spark EV's marketing seems to very close to nil, if it isn't nil.

I realize this.

 

[cwerdna]

It helps that the i3 is available in WAY more states than the Spark EV.

Ah. I didn't realize that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle.html currently says "Available at participating dealers in California and Oregon in limited quantities."

Although (to me) the awareness of the BMW i3 amongst non-EV folks and non-BMW folks wasn't so good well before US launch, eventually, it got better.

At CES January 2014 in Vegas, there were dozens of i3's available for test drive. I test drove one there twice. It wasn't for sale in the US yet, but was already available in Europe. I recall there was one each at Samsung's and Nvidia's booths (http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/01/09/nvidia-powered-cars-no-one-not-even-our-competitors-can-resist/).

IIRC, the CES 2014 i3's were the same ones available for test drive at the LA Auto Show just a few months prior.

Early on or prior to US sales, IIRC, there were some i3's floating around between different dealers for people to test drive.

In CES January 2015, they had a bunch of i3's available for test drive again + other BMWs.

 

[ezryder]

Funny... I was driving in traffic today and a guy next to me motioned for me to roll down my window. He then asked if the car was all-electric. Said he had heard of the Volt, but not of an all electric Spark...

 

[maxvamp]

So.. I am using the Spark for uBer in Boulder Colorado. This is THE BEST EVER car I have ever had on ice and snow when combined with the Michelin ICE-X tires.

I got my Spark through interesting ways, but in short, I got a Spark with 1520 miles that had never been titled, which makes this car very cheap, and so far, the most favorite small GM I have ever had. Because of the deal, I did not get the DC charger. Now that BMW is going to get aggressive on rolling out this connector I have been thinking about doing something about adding fast charger. Now, Boulder is the home of EV mods like crazy. I know of three of them in this town of about 100k people.

Last night I had a passenger from one of them tell me he could retrofit the Spark with a CHaDMo connector, and do up to 100 kWH. I am very likely to NOT do this, but.. I am noticing the 2016 Sparks are mostly coming with the Direct DC option. I am thinking that the parts can be retrofitted to my 2014, either through a salvage car or possibly through GM parts.

I am going to see what these EV customizers and resellers of used EVs think. I can post what I find, however, I was wondering if there is anyone who has had luck in finding a retrofitter for adding this option that should have been standard in the first freaking place. If GM does not include the s standard on the BOLT, I may break my All American ( in name ) practice, and buy a BMW.

In any case, This has been a good thread, but I am wondering if anyone has had luck, short of trading it in for a newer car. Since I am in Colorado, its not as easy as driving to the dealer and swapping it out, and / or getting all the rebates like I did on this car.

Max.

 

[sTeeve]

he could retrofit the Spark with a CHaDMo connector, and do up to 100 kWH. Max.

This is intriguing, max. Do keep this thread alive with updates.

And to nitpick, it's "CHAdeMO".

-Bob K.

 

[maxvamp]

he could retrofit the Spark with a CHaDMo connector, and do up to 100 kWH. Max.

This is intriguing, max. Do keep this thread alive with updates.

And to nitpick, it's "CHAdeMO".

-Bob K.

I would rather call it "Ain't going on my Chevy" .

 

[ReddyKilowatt]

So Chargepoint put in a single stall DC fast charger at the Fred Meyer grocery (a Kroger store) near my house. It is a DC fast charge and, if it actually worked - it went in three weeks ago - would be the only compatible DC fast charger (that I know of) within about 200 miles of my house.

On the one hand it is nice to have the potential for DC fast charge (I assume it will be actually working at some point) but does that mean that since it only has the one station and the one plug available, only people that have a DC fast charge can use it? Isn't that a small subset of the EVs out there?

 

[nikwax]

So Chargepoint put in a single stall DC fast charger at the Fred Meyer grocery (a Kroger store) near my house. It is a DC fast charge and, if it actually worked - it went in three weeks ago - would be the only compatible DC fast charger (that I know of) within about 200 miles of my house.

On the one hand it is nice to have the potential for DC fast charge (I assume it will be actually working at some point) but does that mean that since it only has the one station and the one plug available, only people that have a DC fast charge can use it? Isn't that a small subset of the EVs out there?

Wow, that's great news that we have another DCFC in Oregon! We need a couple more on I5 in Oregon to close the gaps. And at least one on I5 in Washington.


Your next closest DCFC is in Yreka, 50 miles or so

 

[nikwax]

ReadyKW: have you filed a service request with ChargePoint?

 

[nikwax]

I put in a service request with ChargePoint last night, this morning they're saying it is resolved. Want to verify?