Greener for the winter

[JMenacker]

Our white 2015 is my daily commuter (30 miles round trip). Preference is a summer/winter wheel and tire package over all season tires. Tire rack had a nice set of Sparco wheels on sale - however color choice left was anything but silver.

v

Never had colorful wheels before but only due to what I was used to before. Happy with 'em so far. I really do like the Spark EV factory wheels so am glad that the GM wheels will avoid salt encrustment.

Of greater concern was finding fairly heavy deposits of brake pad on the front two rotors. Pic below is from passenger side. Driver side was heavier with a brake pad footprint.



Brass wire brushes on a drill were used to remove the deposits. No readily noticeable pad material remained on the rotors after wire brushing.

Braking seems fine now, but the pad material left on the rotors obviously is no longer on the pads. Has anyone else here experienced substantial transfer of brake pad material to rotors? Would it be wise to plan on replacing pads ASAP? Less than 3K on the car - not sure if this exceeds normal wear and tear but assume anything to do with brake pads would not be covered by the manufacturer.

My commute is a country road with hardly any other traffic. Brake use is minimal as regen is adequate to reduce speed as needed for all but complete stops. OTOH there are critters who don't look both ways before crossing the road, so there has been a half dozen or so cases with panic stop braking events. I don't believe that there were any events where a panic stop was followed by an extended stop with foot on brake where the hot pads might remain in contact with the rotor long enough to cause bonding.

Regards,

Joe M in WV
Two 2015 Spark EVs

 

[JMenacker]

Details:

Wheels: 14x6 4x100 ET42 Sparco Assetto Green w/ 63.3x57.1 centering rings
Tires: 175x65R14 Goodyear Ultra Guard Winter (had same on a leased Volt for 3 winters - held up quite well over approx. 10K miles) - they look silly skinny but should be fine for snow.
TPMS sensors - Tire Rack part # S093-28206

Delivered cost was $685 including $108 shipping.

Close proximity of rear lift pad to rear tire would not allow use of a heavy duty trolley jack (14" OF to OF of jack wheels). I couldn't get the lift pad on the heavy duty jack close enough to the lift pad on the Spark. A portable trolley jack (6" OF to OF of wheels) worked fine.

Joe M in WV

 

[SciroccoTDI]

Details:

Wheels: 14x6 4x100 ET42 Sparco Assetto Green w/ 63x3x57.1 centering rings
Tires: 175x65R14 Goodyear Ultra Guard Winter (had same on a leased Volt for 3 winters - held up quite well over approx. 10K miles) - they look silly skinny but should be fine for snow.
TPMS sensors - Tire Rack part # S093-28206

Delivered cost was $685 including $108 shipping.

Close proximity of rear lift pad to rear tire would not allow use of a heavy duty trolley jack (14" OF to OF of jack wheels). I couldn't get the lift pad on the heavy duty jack close enough to the lift pad on the Spark. A portable trolley jack (6" OF to OF of wheels) worked fine.

Joe M in WV

Skinnier the better for snow tires - thanks for the details! I think it looks pretty good actually and I have always done the same (winter tire and wheel set and a summer tire and wheel set).

 

[PhilPen]

.....

Of greater concern was finding fairly heavy deposits of brake pad on the front two rotors. Pic below is from passenger side. Driver side was heavier with a brake pad footprint.



Brass wire brushes on a drill were used to remove the deposits. No readily noticeable pad material remained on the rotors after wire brushing.

Braking seems fine now, but the pad material left on the rotors obviously is no longer on the pads. Has anyone else here experienced substantial transfer of brake pad material to rotors? Would it be wise to plan on replacing pads ASAP? Less than 3K on the car - not sure if this exceeds normal wear and tear but assume anything to do with brake pads would not be covered by the manufacturer.

.....

brakeperformance.com has the below to say about such rotor deposits

'Heat spots will lead to brake harshness, vibration and reduced structural integrity. Heat spots on brake rotors occur when brakes aren't broken in (bedded) properly and the brake pad deposits on the rotor accumulate and eventually turn into a compound known as cementite. You don't want Cementite on your brake rotors. Cementite is compound that is very hard, overly abrasive and doesn't allow the rotors to cool properly. As a result, Cementite heats up the local area around itself growing in size and reducing the cooling capacity of your brake rotors.
Prevention: Properly breaking/bedding in your new brake rotors is vital to the longevity of the rotor. See our Brake Rotor Bedding Guide.
If this is caught early on, you can possibly remedy it by bedding in your brakes with a more abrasive pad, or resurfacing your rotors. If the heat spots are extensive, you will need to replace your rotors.'

Hope this helps.

 

[NORTON]

brakeperformance.com has the below to say about such rotor deposits

... Heat spots on brake rotors occur when brakes aren't broken in (bedded) properly and the brake pad deposits on the rotor accumulate ....
Prevention: Properly breaking/bedding in your new brake rotors is vital to the longevity of the rotor..
.. you can possibly remedy it by bedding in your brakes .... If the heat spots are extensive, you will need to replace your rotors.'...

I suspect this has nothing to do with heat, but moisture.
In fact these brand new pads and rotors probably never had a hot day in their short little life.
(I thought the rotors had the same heat treatment as the Volt to make them corrosion resistant. That's why you never see rust)

It may sound counter-intuitive, but what I think your brakes need is a proper 'breaking/bedding in'. They need to get hot hot hot, for once in their life. The pads need this treatment.

60 mph, put it in N, brake hard almost to 0, back in D back to 60, repeat, a 3rd time. Then drive easy to allow everything to cool. You may even smell the pads. This is a one time procedure.

We may never have to replace brake pads on this little BEV. But at some point the caliper sliding pins should be cleaned and re-lubed. When? I'm going to replace the brake fluid this summer per the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual. Maybe I'll do the sliders then.

 

[NORTON]

Details:
Wheels: 14x6 4x100 ET42 Sparco Assetto Green w/ 63x3x57.1 centering rings
Tires: 175x65R14 Goodyear Ultra Guard Winter (had same on a leased Volt for 3 winters - held up quite well over approx. 10K miles) - they look silly skinny but should be fine for snow.
TPMS sensors - Tire Rack part # S093-28206

Delivered cost was $685 including $108 shipping....

Joe, Thanks so much for this info. I've been holding off getting winter wheels/tires. This is the exact info I was waiting for.
'-1 sizing' as they call it is the way to go with winter tires.
Last time I contacted tirerack they said they had steel wheels that they said would fit. I didn't ask about 14" steelies at the time. Maybe next winter...

 

[JMenacker]

Interesting thought about whether the brake deposit is dependent on moisture rather than heat. The same car has displayed a tire speed dependent thump twice previously after an extended period of inactivity. In both prior cases the thump went away within a quarter mile of driving. The car was taken in for service on suspicion of incomplete parking brake release but the condition did not present itself during a week stay at the dealer. Dealer suggested rust had accumulated on the disc, but I've never seen oxidized iron on or around the brakes.

I don't recall humidity levels when we experienced thumping. This past week has been very, very wet. Before mounting the winter wheels, the car was inactive four days due to travel.

Joe M in WV

 

[SciroccoTDI]

4x100 and that ET there are tons of wheels that will fit - older watercooled VW alloys, hondas etc - I have a few Rabbit GTI snowflakes laying around...If I get a bee in my bonnet I might try bolting em on and see whats what. VW center bore was 57.1 as well - so if I am reading this right they would require no centering rings.

 

[NORTON]

... The car was taken in for service on suspicion of incomplete parking brake release but the condition did not present itself during a week stay at the dealer. Dealer suggested rust had accumulated on the disc, but I've never seen oxidized iron on or around the brakes.....

The turkey you spoke to at the dealer has never heard of certain GM cars having discs that have this special heat treatment for corrosion resistance.
Volts, Spark EV's, others. Cars that don't use their brakes much, I assume.

So what have you got to lose performing a typical bedding-in procedure on you car's pads?
Look it up. It will only take a few minutes to perform.

You can buy a $20 IR temp gun on amazon and monitor disc temps anytime you think something is going on, like park brake malfunctions.
You can also monitor your normal driving in D and see that the brakes rarely get used and brought up to temp.

 

[JMenacker]

Similar to Volt ownership, depending on anyone at he dealer for accurate information about the car usually results in disappointment. Brake pad bedding is planned for next opportunity with dry pavement. Looks like this coming Wednesday might be dry.

Wife is wondering if more aggressive pads are available for Spark EV. She loves everything else about the car other than the slow pedal. Hope to research a bit tonight.

 

[NORTON]

... wondering if more aggressive pads are available for Spark EV....

The beauty of this kind of car is being able to not use the brake pads, imho.

Your stock pads may feel noticeably better after the bedding in. But then, driving around and shifting to N for stopping is the only way to feel them for sure... :roll:

 

[sequestrian]

I dig the look. I've always liked extreme wheel colors on white cars, but have never had a white car to attempt it.

 

[JMenacker]

Brake pads were bedded last week. Thanks for suggestions to do so and the tip to shift into neutral when bedding braking to ensure application of friction brakes rather than regen system. I ran the car up to 50 mph and applied threshold braking to less than 5 mph through five consecutive sequences followed by a few miles of cool down before reapplying brakes.

Braking is smooth as silk now. Not sure if psychosomatic but brakes seem to have a little more grip than before as well. Next time the car sits for any extended period of time through wet weather, I will check for brake pad transfer to rotors. So far through regular use in dry conditions everything seems okay.

Regards,

Joe M in WV

 

[SciroccoTDI]

Brake pads were bedded last week. Thanks for suggestions to do so and the tip to shift into neutral when bedding braking to ensure application of friction brakes rather than regen system. I ran the car up to 50 mph and applied threshold braking to less than 5 mph through five consecutive sequences followed by a few miles of cool down before reapplying brakes.

Braking is smooth as silk now. Not sure if psychosomatic but brakes seem to have a little more grip than before as well. Next time the car sits for any extended period of time through wet weather, I will check for brake pad transfer to rotors. So far through regular use in dry conditions everything seems okay.

Regards,

Joe M in WV

Good to hear man, thanks for the update!

 

[nikwax]

Similar to Volt ownership, depending on anyone at he dealer for accurate information about the car usually results in disappointment. Brake pad bedding is planned for next opportunity with dry pavement. Looks like this coming Wednesday might be dry.

Wife is wondering if more aggressive pads are available for Spark EV. She loves everything else about the car other than the slow pedal. Hope to research a bit tonight.

I wouldn't put the slow pedal down to the pads specifically. More likely the interaction of the regen system and the hydraulics.