Questions and Data tracking

[SparkE]

It was interesting to see the capacity dropped even though it was not charged to 100%. We shall see what it does as it warms up.

I usually see a 0.3 to 0.4 kWh rise as we go into summer and, as we head for winter, it drops again and goes lower. The linear trendline on my graph projects I will be at 11.4 kWh when I have 60k miles on the ODO. I currently have 30k on my 2016 and my battery capacity is 14.5 kWh. I estimate my battery capacity will continue to drop to 14 kWh at 35k miles, 13 kWh at 45k miles, 12 kWh at 55k miles and 11 kWh at 65k miles. If I drop below 11.4 kWh before August 2024, I will be visiting the dealer to discuss a HV battery warranty claim.

It seems to me that you will be taking lots of longer trips in your SparkEV in 2023, to bump up the mileage ...

Might as well get a new battery in 2024!

 

[MrDRMorgan]

It was interesting to see the capacity dropped even though it was not charged to 100%. We shall see what it does as it warms up.

I usually see a 0.3 to 0.4 kWh rise as we go into summer and, as we head for winter, it drops again and goes lower. The linear trendline on my graph projects I will be at 11.4 kWh when I have 60k miles on the ODO. I currently have 30k on my 2016 and my battery capacity is 14.5 kWh. I estimate my battery capacity will continue to drop to 14 kWh at 35k miles, 13 kWh at 45k miles, 12 kWh at 55k miles and 11 kWh at 65k miles. If I drop below 11.4 kWh before August 2024, I will be visiting the dealer to discuss a HV battery warranty claim.

It seems to me that you will be taking lots of longer trips in your SparkEV in 2023, to bump up the mileage ...

Might as well get a new battery in 2024!

I need to add about 12k miles per year starting now to ensure the battery degradation exceeds the warranty replacement point! Even then, there is no guarantee I will get a NEW battery.

The 2016 Limited Warranty booklet states on page 14: "If warranty repair requires replacement, the high voltage battery may be replaced with either a new or factory refurbished high voltage battery with and energy capacity (kWh storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair."

 

[NORTON]

.... Even then, there is no guarantee I will get a NEW battery.

The 2016 Limited Warranty booklet states on page 14: "If warranty repair requires replacement, the high voltage battery may be replaced with either a new or factory refurbished high voltage battery with and energy capacity (kWh storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair."

Tricky....
"10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair" That's a fine line. :?
Who will make these detailed measurements? What the margin of error in repeated battery cap testing?

Oh well, it sounds like it's not worth pursuing that dream of a 'New' battery pack.
Just drive the little BEV and see where it takes you in 5 years.
Don Worry Bout a Ting.

We are basically early adopters of this 'short range BEV', all ~7500 of us.
What about that one guy that posted here about being over 100k miles? How's he doing?

 

[MrDRMorgan]

.... Even then, there is no guarantee I will get a NEW battery.

The 2016 Limited Warranty booklet states on page 14: "If warranty repair requires replacement, the high voltage battery may be replaced with either a new or factory refurbished high voltage battery with and energy capacity (kWh storage) level at or within approximately 10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair."

Tricky....
"10% of that of the original battery at the time of warranty repair" That's a fine line. :?
Who will make these detailed measurements? What the margin of error in repeated battery cap testing?

Oh well, it sounds like it's not worth pursuing that dream of a 'New' battery pack.
Just drive the little BEV and see where it takes you in 5 years.
Don Worry Bout a Ting.

We are basically early adopters of this 'short range BEV', all ~7500 of us.
What about that one guy that posted here about being over 100k miles? How's he doing?

Good question! If losing 1 kWh every 10k miles is "normal", then he would have to have 9 kWh or less remaining.

Note: From June 2018 to April 2020, I measured my battery capacity 116 times and drove 19,590 miles. Over that same period of time, my battery capacity degraded 2.1 kWh - (16.6 kWh to 14.5 kWh).

Over the same interval of time, I drove my 2014 Spark EV only 8865 miles and the battery capacity also dropped 2.1 kWh (17.2 kWh to 15.1 kWh).
Maybe the electrons here in California are falling into a "black hole" and disappear forever!

 

[ElDobro]

Back in January, I reported that the battery kWh was 11.5, according to Torque Pro. This last charge, I started with 53 miles on the GOM and I drove 66.3 miles, with 9 miles left on the GOM. According to the energy screen, I used 87% of the battery at 13.3 kWh. This would tell me that the battery was trending at 15.3 kWh, right?

I charged up the battery overnight at the 12 amp setting and the display showed it would take 9 1/2 hours to do it. The GOM is at 60 miles now. I checked the capacity with Torque Pro and it's still telling me the capacity is 11.5 kWh. Hmmm....

I'm going to run the GOM down to 8-9 miles again and see what happens.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Back in January, I reported that the battery kWh was 11.5, according to Torque Pro. This last charge, I started with 53 miles on the GOM and I drove 66.3 miles, with 9 miles left on the GOM. According to the energy screen, I used 87% of the battery at 13.3 kWh. This would tell me that the battery was trending at 15.3 kWh, right?

I charged up the battery overnight at the 12 amp setting and the display showed it would take 9 1/2 hours to do it. The GOM is at 60 miles now. I checked the capacity with Torque Pro and it's still telling me the capacity is 11.5 kWh. Hmmm....

I'm going to run the GOM down to 8-9 miles again and see what happens.

Looking at my TorquePro data, the battery capacity number does not vary with variations in the SoC number or GOM number. SoC is a the percent of the value of the battery capacity. 100% SoC would be equal to the battery capacity. GOM is affected by many driving and ambient variables.

If I may make a suggestion, it would be to fully charge your battery so the data on the information screen resets to zero. Reset your trip meter and then do your driving test. Drive in D on a flat highway, at a constant speed and for a period long enough to use up a good portion of your battery capacity. Also, make sure you total all of the percentages on the Energy Information screen - not just battery.

I think you will find Torque Pro is reasonably accurate.

 

[ElDobro]

As I did last time, I fully charged the car so the energy screen zeroed out and I reset the trip. I drove about 55 highway miles and the rest brought me up to 62 miles on the trip, with the GOM estimate at 15 miles left and the trip average was at 6mi/kWh. The energy screen had me using 10.5 kWh at 80% battery usage which should give me 13.2 kWh at 100%.

I let the car fully charge overnight. The GOM estimate is now starting at 70 and Torque Pro is now telling me the battery capacity estimate is 12.5 kWh, up 1 kWh from the last time I checked. I'm going to follow this pattern and see if I get any more changes.

 

[RSC]

May readings:

Date.......... Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2

A total of 75 miles last month (trying to stay home). Weather a little warmer, but still no increase in capacity.

 

[RSC]

June 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2

 

[NORTON]

My last set of data points:

Miles - - Date - - - - % Used - kWh Used - Present Capacity
_____________________________________________________________
72,467 10-28-19 78% -- 15.1 -- 19.36
77,023 2-14-20 48% -- 8.6 -- 17.92
77,581 3-2-20 84% -- 13.9 -- 16.55 Note: 8 miles remaining.
80,852 5-22-20 61% -- 10.6 -- 17.38
81,353 6-3-20 95% -- 16.1 -- 16.95 Note: 6 miles remaining.
________________________________________________________________

These are numbers from the energy page.
I have no idea why this pack is doing so well. :!:
I definitely flog this car, because the electrons are mostly free.
Except in the winter, I charge to full once a day and it's at that state for at most 4 hrs unplugged.
Lately I've been plugging in at noon so I pick it up at the end of the work day, fully charged for < 1 hr.
In hot weather this is a better plan.

 

[didget69]

I haven't checked our battery capacity yet, but we're still seeing 80-85 miles of range avg on GOM, on our 2015 Spark EV, and we're at 25k miles today.

Always plugged in to Level 1 at home, Level 2 at office for ~8 hrs/day, and 14 DCFC full charges since we bought the car.

Bryan in NC

 

[RSC]

July 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2

Again, not many miles last month. No miles at all during the last week of the month. I was lucky enough to snag a wilderness permit for a backpacking trip in Yosemite out of Tuolumne Meadows during the partial park shutdown. Very uncrowded for Yosemite in the summer.

We came and went over Sonora Pass, and I saw the EA DCFC facility in Bridgeport. We had to take our Highlander though. Not enough range in the Spark EV. I'm kind of in a DCFC desert, and really L2 also.

However, I see on PlugShare that DCFC is coming to Groveland. That will be close enough for me to take advantage of it, and with DCFC at Rush Creek Lodge and L2 in the Valley, it looks like a trip to the Valley would be possible.

 

[RSC]

August 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2
08/1/2020 22420 15.2

 

[NORTON]

Recent data points from the energy page:

miles - date - - -display #'s - - calc kWh
81697 6-12-20 58% 10.2 17.59
82314 6-29-20 81% 14 17.28
81557 6-9-20 61% 10.9 17.87
83298 7-23-20 63% 11.1 17.62

Oops, just realized I need to sort my .xls....

 

[RSC]

September 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2
08/1/2020 22420 15.2
09/1/2020 22598 15.2

No change since March. Still staying at home a lot. I will add calculated capacity from the energy screen when I get the opportunity.

 

[RSC]

October 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2
08/1/2020 22420 15.2
09/1/2020 22598 15.2
10/3/2020 22828 15.2

Wasn't able to take a reading on the 1st because I was away on a backpacking trip. Had to take the Highlander, AKA the Lumbering Dinosaur to the trailhead even though it was a 75 mile round trip away. Still waiting for an EV with ground clearance that can handle rough unpaved Forest Service roads.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

October 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2
08/1/2020 22420 15.2
09/1/2020 22598 15.2
10/3/2020 22828 15.2

Wasn't able to take a reading on the 1st because I was away on a backpacking trip. Had to take the Highlander, AKA the Lumbering Dinosaur to the trailhead even though it was a 75 mile round trip away. Still waiting for an EV with ground clearance that can handle rough unpaved Forest Service roads.

For comparison: A quick analysis of your data suggests your battery capacity dropped .7 kWh (15.9 - 15.2) in 3923 miles. This calculates to a loss of 1.0 kWh every 5604 miles. However, your battery capacity is very stable between March 2020 and October 2020.

Data I took from the Energy Information Screen in my leased 2015 Spark EV 2LT shows my battery capacity dropped from 18.8 kWh at 1414 miles to 15.5 kWh at 26508 miles. This calculates to a loss of 1.0 kWh every 7604 miles.

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

Still waiting for an EV with ground clearance that can handle rough unpaved Forest Service roads.

Too rich for my blood, but the Jaq I-Pace has 7.8" apparently. If that's not your thing, there should be a plethora of electric pickups in the next 5 year's, meaning they should be able to be had somewhat affordably used in 2030. If you're like me, that means you're only a decade away!

Part of me wants to take a pickup and put the guts of my Spark in it, with a salvaged long range model 3 battery. I couldn't ever do it to my 95 f150, as it has a straight 6 300, 4x4, extended cab & manual transmission in it, which for those in the know, understand that combo is VERY rare, and that engine/drivetrain will outlast the body in most scenarios. A quad Ram or Dakota would probably be most fitting.

 

[SparkE]

Still waiting for an EV with ground clearance that can handle rough unpaved Forest Service roads.

There was an all-electric Toyota RAV4 EV several years ago (with Tesla motor / batteries) - you might be able to find one used (~ 100 mile range, i think). I think it was only sold in Calif.

There is (or will be soon) a model 2021 "Toyota RAV4 Prime" (five-passengers) that is a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) with about 40 miles of electric range. All-electric "around town and in the suburbs", gasoline for longer trips. 8 inches of clearance, All-wheel drive, ~40 mpg, ~90 MPGe (IIRC).

 

[RSC]

November 2020 readings:

Date........ .. Miles. Capacity (kWh)
05/5/2019 18601 16.1
06/1/2019 18905 15.9
07/3/2019 19259 15.9
08/1/2019 19669 16.3
09/1/2019 19878 16.4
10/2/2019 20190 16.0
11/1/2019 20611 16.0
12/3/2019 20974 15.7
01/1/2020 21176 15.7
02/1/2020 21460 15.4
03/1/2020 21692 15.2
04/1/2020 21951 15.2
05/1/2020 22026 15.2
06/1/2020 22121 15.2
07/1/2020 22248 15.2
08/1/2020 22420 15.2
09/1/2020 22598 15.2
10/3/2020 22828 15.2
11/1/2020 23021 15.2

I had the garage door opened 6 inches or so to help with heat buildup, but now that the weather is cooler, I've lowered it all the way. And now that our cat can't get in to patrol the area, I also swept the garage floor so that any rodent activity would be apparent (thinking about wiring harnesses).

Too rich for my blood, but the Jaq I-Pace has 7.8" apparently. If that's not your thing, there should be a plethora of electric pickups in the next 5 year's, meaning they should be able to be had somewhat affordably used in 2030. If you're like me, that means you're only a decade away!

There was an all-electric Toyota RAV4 EV several years ago (with Tesla motor / batteries) - you might be able to find one used (~ 100 mile range, i think). I think it was only sold in Calif.

There is (or will be soon) a model 2021 "Toyota RAV4 Prime" (five-passengers) that is a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) with about 40 miles of electric range. All-electric "around town and in the suburbs", gasoline for longer trips. 8 inches of clearance, All-wheel drive, ~40 mpg, ~90 MPGe (IIRC).

I'd like to go all EV, but I'll have to wait a bit for a used vehicle or for one that would suit all our purposes. The Bolt is really close and I think not that bad on rough roads, but I would probably still have to hang on to the Highlander. I'm sure that vehicles will be coming along, but for now the Spark EV fills all our driving around town needs and lets me wait a bit to see what's coming.