Real World Range

[butler]

So, I have had my Spark for about a week now. My daily commute is about 32 miles round trip and I have been charging for a 3-4 hours every evening on my home 110v for my work commute.

Today, for the first time I used my work provided 240v Chargepoint charging station and charged my Spark to full. Now its showing a range of 100 miles!!!

1. Is this the real range - 100 miles??!!?? or is Chevy's estimate a little confused since it is car's first full charge and once I start driving it will come down.

2. If it is the real range, why is Chevy not advertising this? 20 miles difference will make a huge difference for people who are on fence because of its range.

-B

 

[fengshui]

So, I have had my Spark for about a week now. My daily commute is about 32 miles round trip and I have been charging for a 3-4 hours every evening on my home 110v for my work commute.

Today, for the first time I used my work provided 240v Chargepoint charging station and charged my Spark to full. Now its showing a range of 100 miles!!!

1. Is this the real range - 100 miles??!!?? or is Chevy's estimate a little confused since it is car's first full charge and once I start driving it will come down.

2. If it is the real range, why is Chevy not advertising this? 20 miles difference will make a huge difference for people who are on fence because of its range.

You can probably get 100 miles in perfect conditions on a flat course with a tailwind and constant max-efficiency speed. However, everything has to line up just right for that. TonyWilliams got a calculated 97.8 miles on a standard but not flat course in San Diego: http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3444

Chevy doesn't dare advertise 100 miles because conditions have to be just right to get it. Even a little traffic or climate control might impact it. 82 miles is a number they're happy with for a more varied driving experience.

 

[kevin]

...

2. If it is the real range, why is Chevy not advertising this? 20 miles difference will make a huge difference for people who are on fence because of its range.

-B

Chevrolet can only advertise the range obtained using the EPA defined test procedure - just as with a gasoline car if you drive carefully you may get more than the rated range, if you drive more aggressively you may get less.

In general electric vehicles get better range at lower speeds and the range is not harmed as much by stop and go traffic as with gasoline engined ones. This is helped significantly by regenerative braking.

The range estimate is based upon your recent driving habits, so it would seem that your driving is more efficient than the EPA test procedure.

The test Tony Williams did was at a constant 62 mph - if you go slower you may get better than his test.

kevin

 

[Blackmamba]

If it says 100 mile range on the display, it represents a running estimate of what range you could reasonably expect to get based upon how the 'brain' has read and averaged out the continually updated history of your Spark's use. If it is only you who drives it and it shows 100 on the display, you must be a pretty efficient driver and/or you are doing much of your driving within your Spark's efficiency sweet spot.

And yeah, Chevy is following the 'under promise, over deliver' route with the Spark EV.

 

[ecilopaveht]

I am on day 3 of having my Spark EV and when I start in the morning it says 101 miles for the top end of the range, I am also getting 5.1 KWH a mile on average. I drive 50 miles a day and get home with 49% charge left on the battery. This is far exceeding what I thought it would do.

 

[fengshui]

I am on day 3 of having my Spark EV and when I start in the morning it says 101 miles for the top end of the range, I am also getting 5.1 KWH a mile on average. I drive 50 miles a day and get home with 49% charge left on the battery. This is far exceeding what I thought it would do.

That's great to hear ecilopaveht. As the batteries age, you will probably see a reduction in range available. The A123 batteries are pretty solid, and it shouldn't be more than a couple of percent, but with a reproducible drive like that, you should see it over the coming months and years.

 

[ecilopaveht]

I have had my best day yet, This is even with playing around a bit showing off the car to coworkers who want to test the 400lbs of torque.

This is with mixed speeds from 65 - 35 mph hwy and city. 25 miles in the morning 65 degrees no climate control. 25 miles in the after noon 98 - 100 degrees with climate control.

If I did not play around so much when showing it off, I probably could hit 100 miles on a charge.

I love this car!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Chevy doesn't dare advertise 100 miles because conditions have to be just right to get it. Even a little traffic or climate control might impact it. 82 miles is a number they're happy with for a more varied driving experience.

Nissan really blew it with "100 miles" range advertising on the LEAF. You don't see that anymore!!!

It should be easy to get 82 miles or greater for a LONG time in the Spark EV, with a very durable battery technology and sound thermal management.

But, that "400 foot pounds torque" thing is pure ********, and just as bad as "100 miles". For folks who don't understand what I mean, the 400 pounds is from the motor with a 3:1 reduction ration gearbox, effectively 1200 pounds at the wheel.

The LEAF with "only" 200 foot pounds goes through an 8:1 reduction gear box for 1600 pounds at the wheel.

The Spark is WAY lighter and smaller than a LEAF, therefore 1200 pounds will out accelerate 1600 pounds. The Spark won't come even close to a Tesla Model S or Roadster and the maximum torque is 440... through a 10:1 reduction gear box... 4400 pounds at the wheels!!!

 

[ecilopaveht]

More real world results:


This is day 5 with my Spark EV, and all week I have been seeing how conservative I can be averaging 5.3 miles per KWh. So today I decided to see how it would fair with very aggressive driving using climate control on hi, not using L or any thing to inch out a KWh.

Today during my 50 mile drive I floored it when I could, tried to maintain 75mph on the hwy, passed anyone I could, used AC to and from work even when I did not need it. I never used L and heavily braked to avoid regen, and even just once touched the 90mph limit of the car. (I don't recommend this!)

So here are my results, I was still impressed with how well this charge held, I have a Volt as well and if you get on that the battery depletes quite quickly!

 

[Electricbowtie]

But, that "400 foot pounds torque" thing is pure ********, and just as bad as "100 miles". For folks who don't understand what I mean, the 400 pounds is from the motor with a 3:1 reduction ration gearbox, effectively 1200 pounds at the wheel.

The LEAF with "only" 200 foot pounds goes through an 8:1 reduction gear box for 1600 pounds at the wheel.

The Spark is WAY lighter and smaller than a LEAF, therefore 1200 pounds will out accelerate 1600 pounds. The Spark won't come even close to a Tesla Model S or Roadster and the maximum torque is 440... through a 10:1 reduction gear box... 4400 pounds at the wheels!!!

Even if the LEAF has different gearing, the Spark accellerates 0-60 way faster. I know the LEAF has raced a Volt on numerous occasions and the Volt always won. Having both a Volt and Spark EV, the Spark is definitely a second faster.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Even if the LEAF has different gearing, the Spark accellerates 0-60 way faster. I know the LEAF has raced a Volt on numerous occasions and the Volt always won. Having both a Volt and Spark EV, the Spark is definitely a second faster.

You completely missed my point, which (in part) is why GM was able to get so much traction with the 400 foot pounds thing.

 

[iletric]

Just made a trip to SF and back, combined fwy/city driving. What a pleasure as compared to my Leaf. The combined GOM + trip meter ranged 92 to 97 miles throughout the entire trip. I just kept looking and calculating...

Spark GOM is actually quite reliable as compared to the Leaf. What you see is what you get when it comes to miles remaining. Can't do that with the Leaf--what you see is what you mostly not going to get. Sorry to say.

There are many things I like better about the Leaf. But as far as the range, I get solid 30 more miles from Spark. In EV business, that's news.

 

[Sparkler]

You completely missed my point, which (in part) is why GM was able to get so much traction with the 400 foot pounds thing.

How is that different than Tesla advertising Peak Motor Torque as 443 foot pounds? They do not mention gearing either.

Wait, isn't there two motors in a Tesla S? If so, that means each one is 221.5 foot pounds? Makes getting a single motor to reach 400 foot pounds seem pretty impressive to me, if that is the case.

It seems the same way that ICE vehicle has always been advertised. Peak Horsepower at the flywheel, never at the wheels.
Not to mention SAE HP was always more than DIN, due to testing the raw output without such loads as water pump and alternators, something that could not be done for more than a few seconds in the real world.

 

[fengshui]

Wait, isn't there two motors in a Tesla S? If so, that means each one is 221.5 foot pounds? Makes getting a single motor to reach 400 foot pounds seem pretty impressive to me, if that is the case.

The Model S has one motor driving the rear wheels. Model X will have AWD with two motors as an option.

 

[Sparkler]

Wait, isn't there two motors in a Tesla S? If so, that means each one is 221.5 foot pounds? Makes getting a single motor to reach 400 foot pounds seem pretty impressive to me, if that is the case.

The Model S has one motor driving the rear wheels. Model X will have AWD with two motors as an option.

So this is a single motor?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Tesla_Motors_Model_S_base.JPG

Sure looks like 2 motors driving the reduction box from either side. Common shaft maybe? Why is one side bigger than the other?

 

[fengshui]

So this is a single motor?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Tesla_Motors_Model_S_base.JPG

Sure looks like 2 motors driving the reduction box from either side. Common shaft maybe? Why is one side bigger than the other?

As far as I know, yes. This image from Car and Driver identifies one side as the motor, and the other side as the power inverter, but if you have other evidence, I'd be interested in it:
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/under-the-teslas-skin-2013-tesla-model-s-january-2013-issue-large-photo-493014-s-original.jpg

 

[Sesamecrunch]

My commute into San Francisco from the seaside town of Half Moon Bay, CA is 75 miles (roundtrip) with about 2,500 ft of hills. I am delighted that my Spark EV does this trip with about 25% of charge left in the battery. My gauge shows about 25 miles left when I get home. (I prefer to look at the state of charge meter, though.) Either way, this has been a nice surprise for me. With a 25% margin, I don't have to worry about unforeseen events like traffic jams preventing me from getting home.

I do drive conservatively, don't have the AC on, since weather here is always cool. Climate usage after my commute is about 3%. My burn rate is about 4.9 mi/kwh, even with the hills.

Loving the Spark EV! Our solar panels will be installed at home soon, so we will be super clean.

 

[saintyohann]

Sesame,
Just be aware that if it gets cold, the battery isn't as efficient (and the TMS kicks in), you may have to charge to make it home in that case.

 

[Sesamecrunch]

Sesame,
Just be aware that if it gets cold, the battery isn't as efficient (and the TMS kicks in), you may have to charge to make it home in that case.

It rarely drops below 40F here. When does the TMS kick in, and would it use up 25% extra energy?

I'm trying to convince the landlord where I work to install a 110V outlet in the parking lot. Haven't heard back yet. I hope he's environmentally friendly.

 

[saintyohann]

It rarely drops below 40F here. When does the TMS kick in, and would it use up 25% extra energy?

I'm trying to convince the landlord where I work to install a 110V outlet in the parking lot. Haven't heard back yet. I hope he's environmentally friendly.

Besides the TMS draw if it does get really cold, batteries are less efficient at cold or hot temperatures. I think the sweet-spot is 80-100°F and if it's outside of that, you'll get less range from it. It also takes a little bit longer to charge in these instances...

...but my point wasn't to be worried, but to make sure you had a plan (and backup plan too) if the need arises.