Replacement Battery Cost

[BEANS]

First of all, let’s do the math on a typical Spark EV battery:
- 18.4 kw usable (2015-2016) or 19.4 actual. GM takes 5% out to keep the batteries from fully charging or discharging.
- 18.4 x 4 mi per kWh = 73.6 mi range (This should be a conservative number)
- The LG Chem Cells should be good for 3,000 charge cycles before 80% DOD.
- If we take 10% off of 73.6, we should come to a fairly close medium of what the range will be new vs at 80%.
- 73.6 x 90% (0.9) = 66.24 miles rounded down is 66 miles.
66 x 3,000 = 198,000 mi.

Doing the math, your Spark EV won’t be at 80% DOD until you reach 198,000 miles ish.

Now, the fun part.

The Spark EV cells were rated at 27 AH (Amp Hours) at 3.75v nominal. It has 96 cells in series and 2 cells in parallel. That looks like this... 2p96s.

The Bolt EV uses 55 AH cells at 3.75v. It’s 3p96s (3 in parallel, 96 in series).

If GM decided to use the Bolt EV cells in a replacement battery for the Spark EV, the new battery would be 39.6 kw size, instead of 19.4. That’s over twice the size.

If GM took the same 5% out, the numbers would look like this:
39.6 x 95% (0.95) = 37.6 kWh usable
37.6 x 4 mi/kWh = 150 mi

So, I believe that if there’s enough interest, GM would be willing to manufacture this battery as a replacement for the Spark EV, which would make it much more usable, and much more valuable.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

First of all, let’s do the math on a typical Spark EV battery:
- 18.4 kw usable (2015-2016) or 19.4 actual. GM takes 5% out to keep the batteries from fully charging or discharging.
- 18.4 x 4 mi per kWh = 73.6 mi range (This should be a conservative number)
- The LG Chem Cells should be good for 3,000 charge cycles before 80% DOD.
- If we take 10% off of 73.6, we should come to a fairly close medium of what the range will be new vs at 80%.
- 73.6 x 90% (0.9) = 66.24 miles rounded down is 66 miles.
66 x 3,000 = 198,000 mi.

Doing the math, your Spark EV won’t be at 80% DOD until you reach 198,000 miles ish.

Now, the fun part.

The Spark EV cells were rated at 27 AH (Amp Hours) at 3.75v nominal. It has 96 cells in series and 2 cells in parallel. That looks like this... 2p96s.

The Bolt EV uses 55 AH cells at 3.75v. It’s 3p96s (3 in parallel, 96 in series).

If GM decided to use the Bolt EV cells in a replacement battery for the Spark EV, the new battery would be 39.6 kw size, instead of 19.4. That’s over twice the size.

If GM took the same 5% out, the numbers would look like this:
39.6 x 95% (0.95) = 37.6 kWh usable
37.6 x 4 mi/kWh = 150 mi

So, I believe that if there’s enough interest, GM would be willing to manufacture this battery as a replacement for the Spark EV, which would make it much more usable, and much more valuable.

GM only sold about 7500 Spark EVs over the three model years. I doubt it is worth it for them to do as you suggest. Hopefully, some aftermarket genius will figure out how to profitably rebuild the Spark EV battery. Perhaps LG would be willing to build replacement batteries.

 

[JPL]

You don't need to be a genius to do this.

It's just slightly more complex than an electric bicycle, a laptop or a battery drill

 

[BEANS]

You don't need to be a genius to do this.

It's just slightly more complex than an electric bicycle, a laptop or a battery drill

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Many people have tried but can’t get past the software. It disables your vehicle if you tamper with the original design.

 

[NORTON]

As I said before, probably in this thread,,,
When people ask, 'How much for a battery pack replacement'?
I say, "When do you replace the battery pack?'

 

[MrDRMorgan]

As I said before, probably in this thread,,,
When people ask, 'How much for a battery pack replacement'?
I say, "When do you replace the battery pack?'

Great question and the answer will be different for each one of us EV drivers. For me, today I would say when the full-charge GOM value on my 2014 Spark EV without DCFC reaches 40 miles (about 8 kWh). Even then, the car is still usable for local in-town driving. My current full-charge GOM is also 90-95 miles.

It is different with my 2016 Spark EV which does have DCFC and which I use weekly for out-of-town trips. The distance between "working" DCFC stations will dictate how far I can venture out and back. Eventually, it will become an "in-town" car too. My current full-charge GOM is 90-95 miles.

Each driver must also take the weather into consideration as use of the AC or cabin heater will negatively impact the GOM range.

But... I also hope replacement / rebuilt batteries will be available in the near future to revitalize Sparkie's full range.

 

[NORTON]

But... I also hope replacement / rebuilt batteries will be available in the near future to revitalize Sparkie's full range.

But.... Who will need them in the 'near future'?

My '14 with 71k miles just showed 83 miles on the GOM when I went to pick it up at noon at the 'free gas station' a 1/4 mile away from work.
I did go the back way home last night, but that's mostly 50 - 55 mph roads with a 5 mile 75-80 mph stretch.
This morning it was back to interstate all the way, mostly 70 - 80 mph.
~50 mile round trip.

I don't know why this pack is aging so gracefully.

I agree, it will be a case by case call on when to spend thousands on a pack for a +10 year old S-box EV.

 

[Chris101]

@NORTON

Does your 2014 have DCFC? If yes, do you use it often? I have a theory about the 2014 Spark EV battery aging better and another about not using DCFC as often. Curious to know if I'm wrong.

But... I also hope replacement / rebuilt batteries will be available in the near future to revitalize Sparkie's full range.

But.... Who will need them in the 'near future'?

My '14 with 71k miles just showed 83 miles on the GOM when I went to pick it up at noon at the 'free gas station' a 1/4 mile away from work.
I did go the back way home last night, but that's mostly 50 - 55 mph roads with a 5 mile 75-80 mph stretch.
This morning it was back to interstate all the way, mostly 70 - 80 mph.
~50 mile round trip.

I don't know why this pack is aging so gracefully.

I agree, it will be a case by case call on when to spend thousands on a pack for a +10 year old S-box EV.

 

[NORTON]

@NORTON

Does your 2014 have DCFC? If yes, do you use it often? I have a theory about the 2014 Spark EV battery aging better and another about not using DCFC as often. Curious to know if I'm wrong.

Yes, it does have DCFC. I use it for every airport run and rarely on a busy weekend. All in all, maybe 10 times a year.

BTW, the one and only failure I had was after a DCFC session. Actually twice, at the same station. GM and the dealership said don't use that one station ever again or we will void your warranty. What goofs. Like it's getting water in my electrons.....
It turned out their old fashioned 'Trouble Tree' method of going down a list of components to replace was totally WRONG.
The 3rd guess on the Tree was the one that fixed the problem. HPCM 2, the module that deals with DCFC functions,, duh.

Also, the '14's have A123 cells that just sit on a plate that is heated or cooled for TMS, so I suspect if replacement cells with a similar physical size could be used,,, when that time gets here...
BUT, when will that time be? How short of a range can I live with in my ~10 yr old BEV?

 

[SparkE]

I will get rid of my spark when it hits (about) 35-40 miles of range. That will be in about ... 15-20 years. It will still be a great "around town" car for us until it loses half its capacity. My wife and I "discuss" (meaning : fight) about who gets to drive the Spark. We also have a gas-mobile (fuel efficient , low polluting, PZEV) but neither of us really want to drive it.

I have been saying for years that the next gas car I get will be an electric (plug-in hybrid). Electric use for 95% of the time and quick easy refueling for trips.

 

[BEANS]

Using current 60ah cells instead of the 2016 Sparks 27ah cells, you’d get a respectable 170+ mile range, which would make the Spark one of the best value used EVs on the market. When the AHs get up to 75-80, it’ll be a no brained, since it’ll have over 200 mile range.

 

[Chris101]

I still just don't see a higher capacity battery pack ever happening for the Spark EV given the crazy low 7500 total count that was made. I would be really surprised if a) one becomes available and b) its actually affordable. I'm already seeing some Spark EV cars selling for $6000 so who would want to spent another $6000 for another battery and software tuning is the bottom line. My advise is to enjoy the Spark EV for what it is and don't try to make it into something it's not.

 

[NORTON]

Guys, a 60 Ah cell is going to be much larger than a 27 Ah cell.
Where are you going to put these bigger cells? :?:

As I said up a few.... I suspect if replacement cells with a similar physical size could be used,,,
and that is only on the '14's because of the simple 'plate' TMS.