Stabilitrak seems over-sensitive? Any way to disable?

[emotodude]

So I commute in the Santa Cruz mountains on a daily basis and find the stabilitrak to be wildly over-sensitive. I probably trigger it 1/2 dozen time every trip. I am not pushing the car that hard. There is one corner in particular that seem to trigger it even at very mild speeds. I estimate less than .2g's lateral.

Anyone else notice this? Or maybe I should have my car checked? Yes tire pressures are all correct and even.

Any way to permanently disable stabilitrak? I am concerned about doing wheel and suspension mods as it may confuse the system and make things even worse.

 

[tigger19687]

Not trying to Hijack this,
But could you describe what this feels like ?

I plan on buying this car and read an issue in another thread but I am not understanding what the issue is.

For reference, I drive an F-350 Diesel so I assume it is very different. But I have also driven an Escort, Lexus 300 sporty (didn't like it) and a few other cars in my life.

 

[FutureFolly]

"Electronic stability control" systems are legally required on all new cars. They use sensors to detect how fast you're cornering. When the algorithms decide you're cornering too fast they cut power and apply the inner brakes to help pull you through the corner. The problem is that it's a very intrusive feeling.

Most manufacturers have their own brand name for their system. GM calls their system "StabiliTrak." They all work by the same principle though.

 

[emotodude]

Not trying to Hijack this,
But could you describe what this feels like ?

I plan on buying this car and read an issue in another thread but I am not understanding what the issue is.

For reference, I drive an F-350 Diesel so I assume it is very different. But I have also driven an Escort, Lexus 300 sporty (didn't like it) and a few other cars in my life.

It's an annoying "pulsing" at a couple hertz as the car brakes the rear inside wheel to pull the nose around. Also the stabilitrack indicator flashes when active. It does work. But it's way over-active in this car, I suspect I have 50% "grip" left before it really needs to actuate this system. So mostly it's super annoying, and arguable slightly unsafe because the cars behavior changes sporadically and inconsistently.

It seems like in order to be "safer" they have opted for an over-stable car that "pushes" in the corners and uses the stabilitrak to pull the nose back in line. This means you are less likely to spin and lose control, but it also yields less overall performance and annoying, quirky and inconsistent behavior. Both my '86 civic hatchback and 2007 yaris hatchback handled much better and had no need of this silly stability augmentation non-sense.

With no way to permanently disable this "feature" it means that changing wheels, tires, brakes, and suspension components may confuse the system and cause it to behave in un-intended ways.

It also means I may boil the rear brakes trying to autocross or race at Refuel this year. It's not unique to this car. Many cars with stability features, even "sports cars" have this problem.

 

[SanDiego]

I hate the behavior of this system too, especially on curvy country roads in downhill bends. In our urban driving its mostly on freeway on-ramps.

I consistently hold down the button behind the shift lever to turn off traction control, which my imagination tells me may help the situation a little. Hold that button down long enough at low speeds and stability control turns off too, but unfortunately it doesn't stay off. When it's off it handles like a real car.

My wife, as far as I can tell, may never have had stability control intrude. Different driving styles,I confess.

Since the front tires are almost worn out I'm going for a stiffer pair, which may help - who knows. I'll post what I find out.

 

[SanDiego]

I posted this on the "Torque Steer" thread, but want to duplicate it here too as a promised follow-up re. the stability control system:

I replaced our front tires with Yokohama Avid Ascend (185/55R15 = the original size).

This seems to have tightened up the car's handling in every respect, and after a few hundred miles of testing, seems to eliminate my complaints about the over-sensitive stability control, which I do not feel kicking in at all, even on tight turns at a fast clip.

The original Ecopia tires wore down to 4/32" tread after 9,000 miles. The handling got more and more mushy. Traction was reduced. There are a limited number of tires made in the 185/55R15 size. The Avid Ascend is one of them, and it's billed as a low-rolling-resistance tire. It's wear rating is more than twice the rating of the Ecopia tires. The OEM Ecopia tires have no mileage warranty, but the Avid Ascend has 85,000 miles of coverage. So it looks like they will carry us for the rest of our 36,000 mile lease with no problem. I wish I had bought them sooner.

 

[Electricbowtie]

@emotodude - I too now commute in the Santa Cruz mountains in my Charcoal Gray Volt and pretty sure I saw you on Bear Creek a few days ago. Blue Spark EV correct? Anyway, I also drive my wife's Spark EV up the hill on occasion and really noticed the Stabilitrak messing with my driving. I did see that you can disable it by holding the TC button down for 5 seconds, so will try that on Monday when I drive it up there to see if that helps. Not sure if you have done the same yet.

 

[NomadMac]

I complained about the traction control on the wet road up and down Mt. Tam. Took the same drive yesterday and the TC was coming on in hairpin corners that were dry. Really annoying. Hoping the Avids will fix this issue as someone else noted. Not ready to replace the Ecopias just yet with barely 4,000 miles on them.

 

[Electricbowtie]

I did the round trip to work today on the winding Hwy 9 and Bear Creek Road home and the Stabilitrak was absolutely maddening!! It was hitting the brakes on most curves and sucked the fun out of the drive. Our Volt handles the road WAY better. Even when I turned it off, it kicked back on curves. Grrr

 

[nmikmik]

I posted this on the "Torque Steer" thread, but want to duplicate it here too as a promised follow-up re. the stability control system:

I replaced our front tires with Yokohama Avid Ascend (185/55R15 = the original size).

This seems to have tightened up the car's handling in every respect, and after a few hundred miles of testing, seems to eliminate my complaints about the over-sensitive stability control, which I do not feel kicking in at all, even on tight turns at a fast clip.

The original Ecopia tires wore down to 4/32" tread after 9,000 miles. The handling got more and more mushy. Traction was reduced. There are a limited number of tires made in the 185/55R15 size. The Avid Ascend is one of them, and it's billed as a low-rolling-resistance tire. It's wear rating is more than twice the rating of the Ecopia tires. The OEM Ecopia tires have no mileage warranty, but the Avid Ascend has 85,000 miles of coverage. So it looks like they will carry us for the rest of our 36,000 mile lease with no problem. I wish I had bought them sooner.

Thanks for posting it here SanDiego,
I am wondering if you felt any change of the ride harshness or smoothness?
I know usually there is a trade off from a better handling.

 

[SanDiego]

Thanks for posting it here SanDiego,
I am wondering if you felt any change of the ride harshness or smoothness?
I know usually there is a trade off from a better handling.

Hello fellow San Diegan nmikmik: The memory of Ecopia tires on the front is, thankfully, becoming foggy after almost 3,000 miles. I'm pretty sure there are no trade offs comparing the Ecopia to the Avid Ascend. Better handling, quieter, smoother. Stiffer, but only in a good way I think. We've had zero wet road experience with them, so I can't speak to that. That annoying braking in the turns is gone; that's a big one. They are wearing better than the Ecopia, as expected. I'd like to see how it would be with the Avids on all four corners, but the Ecopia on the rear are wearing well enough that I hope I never have a chance to find out.

 

[nmikmik]

Thanks for posting it here SanDiego,
I am wondering if you felt any change of the ride harshness or smoothness?
I know usually there is a trade off from a better handling.

Hello fellow San Diegan nmikmik: The memory of Ecopia tires on the front is, thankfully, becoming foggy after almost 3,000 miles. I'm pretty sure there are no trade offs comparing the Ecopia to the Avid Ascend. Better handling, quieter, smoother. Stiffer, but only in a good way I think. We've had zero wet road experience with them, so I can't speak to that. That annoying braking in the turns is gone; that's a big one. They are wearing better than the Ecopia, as expected. I'd like to see how it would be with the Avids on all four corners, but the Ecopia on the rear are wearing well enough that I hope I never have a chance to find out.

Hey, thanks for the update SanDiego!
I dislike (least to say) the Ecopias as well and suspected that suspension could do much better with a grippier set of tires. The first time I noticed Stabilitrak kick in, it made me feel extremely uncomfortable, but I am slowly getting used to it. I generally don't like any of the things that make you just an "operator" of the car, but this car is so much fun to drive it makes me overlook all those things. The car barely has over 300 miles on it, so I am not changing tires any time soon, but looking forward to do it
With the way it's going, you are unlikely to experience wet road traction with these tires any time soon.

 

[Nashco]

The stability control is driving me bonkers. When I've got my race tires (BFG Rivals) on the car, it's tolerable, although still annoying. When I switch back to the Ecopias, it's downright miserable. Also, my Ecopias have less than 3000 miles on them and the fronts are at least halfway worn.

For those with 3 year leases, I HIGHLY recommend you get better tires on the car right away. Drive the car for the next 30,000 miles or so with much better tires and enjoy it. When you're nearing the end of your lease, put the Ecopias back on it before returning it. I guarantee you won't get 36,000 miles out of your Ecopias on the front...so if you need to buy new tires, you might as well buy them now and enjoy them instead of buying new tires for the next person down the line.

Meanwhile, I have tried a few methods to defeat the ESC without any luck. The service manual couldn't come soon enough, I HAVE to find a workaround. Heck, I'd pay good money to GMPP for a software calibration that would allow disabling of the stability control if desired. It makes the car sooooo unenjoyable in the dry!

Bryce

 

[fengshui]

The stability control is driving me bonkers. When I've got my race tires (BFG Rivals) on the car, it's tolerable, although still annoying. When I switch back to the Ecopias, it's downright miserable. Also, my Ecopias have less than 3000 miles on them and the fronts are at least halfway worn.

For those with 3 year leases, I HIGHLY recommend you get better tires on the car right away. Drive the car for the next 30,000 miles or so with much better tires and enjoy it. When you're nearing the end of your lease, put the Ecopias back on it before returning it. I guarantee you won't get 36,000 miles out of your Ecopias on the front...so if you need to buy new tires, you might as well buy them now and enjoy them instead of buying new tires for the next person down the line.

Amazingly, I believe tires are covered by the warranty. Don't have a citation, but I saw a post elsewhere on the forum that listed them.

 

[Nashco]

Amazingly, I believe tires are covered by the warranty. Don't have a citation, but I saw a post elsewhere on the forum that listed them.

Only warranted to be free of manufacturing defects:

Tires

The tires supplied with your vehicle are covered by General Motors against defects in material or workmanship under the Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty coverage. Wear-out is not considered a defect, and it may occur before the vehicle warranty expires. In this case, the owner is responsible for purchasing replacement tires, or seeking coverage solely from the tire manufacturer. For vehicles within the Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty coverage, defective tires will be replaced on a prorated adjustment basis according to the mileage-based schedule in your Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklet. After your New-Vehicle Limited Warranty expires, you may still have prorated warranty coverage on your original equipment tires by the tire manufacturer.

Not like I'd purposefully put another set of these garbage tires back on this car, even if they were free. Aside from great range, I don't see the point...they suck at everything else, and I don't NEED the range in my case. Anyway, I'd rather slow down on the highways than slow down in the corners if I'm trying to maximize range!

Bryce

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm already looking for Spark tires with the mountain and snowflake symbol on the sidewall.

 

[buickanddeere]

The stability control is driving me bonkers. When I've got my race tires (BFG Rivals) on the car, it's tolerable, although still annoying. When I switch back to the Ecopias, it's downright miserable. Also, my Ecopias have less than 3000 miles on them and the fronts are at least halfway worn.

For those with 3 year leases, I HIGHLY recommend you get better tires on the car right away. Drive the car for the next 30,000 miles or so with much better tires and enjoy it. When you're nearing the end of your lease, put the Ecopias back on it before returning it. I guarantee you won't get 36,000 miles out of your Ecopias on the front...so if you need to buy new tires, you might as well buy them now and enjoy them instead of buying new tires for the next person down the line.

Meanwhile, I have tried a few methods to defeat the ESC without any luck. The service manual couldn't come soon enough, I HAVE to find a workaround. Heck, I'd pay good money to GMPP for a software calibration that would allow disabling of the stability control if desired. It makes the car sooooo unenjoyable in the dry!

Bryce

It maybe possible to hardwire around the stability system.
Some dudes doing burnouts re-wired the output from the front wheel speed transducers. Isolated the signal feed from the rear wheel transducers .parallel fed the front wheel transducers to the circuit taking the rear wheel signals to the VCM. As far as the VCM concerned, the rear wheels always turned the same speed as the front tires.

 

[Nashco]

The stability control is driving me bonkers. When I've got my race tires (BFG Rivals) on the car, it's tolerable, although still annoying. When I switch back to the Ecopias, it's downright miserable. Also, my Ecopias have less than 3000 miles on them and the fronts are at least halfway worn.

For those with 3 year leases, I HIGHLY recommend you get better tires on the car right away. Drive the car for the next 30,000 miles or so with much better tires and enjoy it. When you're nearing the end of your lease, put the Ecopias back on it before returning it. I guarantee you won't get 36,000 miles out of your Ecopias on the front...so if you need to buy new tires, you might as well buy them now and enjoy them instead of buying new tires for the next person down the line.

Meanwhile, I have tried a few methods to defeat the ESC without any luck. The service manual couldn't come soon enough, I HAVE to find a workaround. Heck, I'd pay good money to GMPP for a software calibration that would allow disabling of the stability control if desired. It makes the car sooooo unenjoyable in the dry!

Bryce

It maybe possible to hardwire around the stability system.
Some dudes doing burnouts re-wired the output from the front wheel speed transducers. Isolated the signal feed from the rear wheel transducers .parallel fed the front wheel transducers to the circuit taking the rear wheel signals to the VCM. As far as the VCM concerned, the rear wheels always turned the same speed as the front tires.

Sure...but then you lose ABS as well! How do you know how they did it...documentation? Link?

Bryce

 

[buickanddeere]

The stability control is driving me bonkers. When I've got my race tires (BFG Rivals) on the car, it's tolerable, although still annoying. When I switch back to the Ecopias, it's downright miserable. Also, my Ecopias have less than 3000 miles on them and the fronts are at least halfway worn.

For those with 3 year leases, I HIGHLY recommend you get better tires on the car right away. Drive the car for the next 30,000 miles or so with much better tires and enjoy it. When you're nearing the end of your lease, put the Ecopias back on it before returning it. I guarantee you won't get 36,000 miles out of your Ecopias on the front...so if you need to buy new tires, you might as well buy them now and enjoy them instead of buying new tires for the next person down the line.

Meanwhile, I have tried a few methods to defeat the ESC without any luck. The service manual couldn't come soon enough, I HAVE to find a workaround. Heck, I'd pay good money to GMPP for a software calibration that would allow disabling of the stability control if desired. It makes the car sooooo unenjoyable in the dry!

Bryce

It maybe possible to hardwire around the stability system.
Some dudes doing burnouts re-wired the output from the front wheel speed transducers. Isolated the signal feed from the rear wheel transducers .parallel fed the front wheel transducers to the circuit taking the rear wheel signals to the VCM. As far as the VCM concerned, the rear wheels always turned the same speed as the front tires.

Sure...but then you lose ABS as well! How do you know how they did it...documentation? Link?

Bryce

Vehicles have stopped a lot of times without ABS. There would still be two channel ABS instead of four channel ABS.
It would be simple enough to use single pole double throw relay contacts. Wire the relay coil to a WOT switch. The front wheel speed transducers would supply their signal to the rear wheel inputs to the VCM when the throttle is floored. Normal ABS etc when not at WOT.

 

[Nashco]

Vehicles have stopped a lot of times without ABS. There would still be two channel ABS instead of four channel ABS.
It would be simple enough to use single pole double throw relay contacts. Wire the relay coil to a WOT switch. The front wheel speed transducers would supply their signal to the rear wheel inputs to the VCM when the throttle is floored. Normal ABS etc when not at WOT.

I'm starting to get the feeling that you're making this all up. I HAVE driven the Spark EV without proper functioning ABS and stability control, and I can tell you it's not pretty! The braking system is highly integrated with the powertrain control, so much so that if there is a fault code the system goes into a reduced propulsion power mode (75 kW from battery instead of 120 kW). I suspect that the "vehicles have stopped a lot of times without ABS" comment you're making doesn't apply to EVs with blended braking systems.

Furthermore, the SPDT relay switching during theory would result in an open circuit (momentarily) and erratic speed measurements, which also throws codes and results in lots of horribe consequences related to driving dynamics.

Bryce