Leased a Spark EV with the SAE Combo charging port on 6 Jan

[TonyWilliams]

Now, some people who opted for CHAdeMO 3 years ago without any guarantee that there would ever be any in their area, and who still don't have any to use, may have a legitimate reason to pass on CCS. But not where we _know_ that they will be installed

Well, we were all giddy with that "new" outfit, what was the name, oh ya, Ecotality. $100 million tax payer dollars, remember?

 

[gra]

Now, some people who opted for CHAdeMO 3 years ago without any guarantee that there would ever be any in their area, and who still don't have any to use, may have a legitimate reason to pass on CCS. But not where we _know_ that they will be installed

Well, we were all giddy with that "new" outfit, what was the name, oh ya, Ecotality. $100 million tax payer dollars, remember?

Having seen the government-incentive-dependent solar water heating fiasco in California in the '80s, although I was glad to see QCs appearing I was never 'giddy' about Ecotality - I am not a fan of companies that are dependent on handouts out to the far future to remain in business. Every time I looked at their business it seemed almost certain they would fold once the subsidies ran out, just as many '80s solar water heating companies did (including the largest in the state, which IIRR filed for bankruptcy the day following the ending of those subsidies). The fact that Ecotality's equipment was crap just hastened their failure, and 350Green seems to have been of the same ilk. Chargepoint seemed and seems to have a much better business plan, as well as better equipment and software, but then their leadership team had more experience.

 

[corwin]

I stopped in at the efacec CCS charger (in Belmont, CA) this morning to find it completely dark. A call to the company confirmed that the charger had failed and is offline until a factory tech can repair it. Since their US office is in Atlanta, it's likely that the repair will be delayed until next week. I'll post a follow-up once I find out it is up and I have a chance to test.
-Corwin

 

[cwerdna]

I didn't wait to get the combo charger because I know I would never need it. In 7 months I've had the car not once did I need it. We'll just have to see had it all plays out. I just don't like being called unwashed masses which we've been called on the nissan leaf forum.

Sorry that this offends you, but I'm sure there are many of these unwashed masses amongst Spark EV owners and potential buyers/lessees along w/those interested in the BMW i3. Many are totally unaware of the situation, infrastructure and backers of the 3 incompatible DC FC standards.

Heck, on a BMW i3 page, someone (in WA) innocently asked a question about J1772 CCS... A bunch of facts were presented and the entire thread was unceremoniously deleted, likely by the page's admin/owner. A Leafer who had used their DC FC port, admitting they didn't know the name of their standard (which we had to tell him is CHAdeMO), so it seems they wouldn't know about the above situation.

For that person asking in WA, the NRG/eVgo settlement only applies to California, so that doesn't help them. And, the Spark EV isn't being sold in WA, so that doesn't help either.

One of admins of the i3 page now has a "side job" (http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/01/my-new-side-job-bmw-i-dealer-training.html). He mentioned

I'm really doing basic EV and i3 information. For example the differences in L1, L2 & DC quick charge. None of the dealers really understand the differences. The Dealership in Canada I just went to had no idea there isn't a DC CCS charger in the entire country. Don't you think they should know that and tell the customer before they charge them $700 for the option?

And now we're hearing this about the i3: http://insideevs.com/bmw-ceo-us-i3-sales-to-be-a-couple-thousand-in-2014/.

BMW CEO: US i3 Sales to be a “Couple Thousand” in 2014

 

[Time2go]

I don't have a problem with people trying to explain the issues with the different DC charging. I just don't have time with people who insult and use childish names to make a point. Which is why I blocked all of Tony's comments. I'm here to talk about the Spark EV and nothing else.

 

[cwerdna]

Which is why I blocked all of Tony's comments.

Too bad. Many of his posts are quite informative.

 

[nozferatu]

Why is this issue of charging so freaking complicated?

It certainly doesn't help to add people to the EV pool that's for sure.

I feel this subject is intentionally complicated...both by charging companies and auto manufacturers. This is ridiculous.

 

[cwerdna]

Why is this issue of charging so freaking complicated?

It certainly doesn't help to add people to the EV pool that's for sure.

I feel this subject is intentionally complicated...both by charging companies and auto manufacturers. This is ridiculous.

That's our point exactly. It's been a case of the Japanese (CHAdeMO) vs. Europeans + Ford and GM. The latter seemed to devise their incompatible standard only for the purpose of slowing down Nissan.

Tesla went off and did their own thing w/a MUCH faster charging standard than the above and didn't wait around. Their connector is a lot more elegant.

FWIW, I've only used the unintuitive and heavy 1st gen Yazaki CHAdeMO connector.

From http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=183351#p183351 (that I think I've reposted before) from March 2012:

Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States

Translation: Seven European and US auto makers declare that the Japanese quick charging standard, currently with over 1,000 chargers and tens of thousands of vehicles worldwide, cannot be used. Three of the seven sell BEV's in small scale pilot test programs. One sells production quantities of an EREV which neither has nor needs quick charging. None sell BEV's in full production, and none have announced plans to sell any BEV that can use quick charging. And no company has announced plans to build an SAE quick charger - if the standard existed yet.

On the plus side, L1 and L2 J1772 AC charging isn't that complicated. Everyone's adopted that (in the US), except Tesla. But, for the Roadster, you can buy an adapter and the Model S comes w/a free one.

Remember, the Leaf's been shipping w/optional CHAdeMO port since December 2010.

If you want to further discuss DC FC standards, let's do it at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3555.

 

[nozferatu]

No it's cool...it's not that I absolutely need the fast DC charger...but I just want to understand what is the best solution for the fastest charging for the Spark EV were I to get one (for home charging).

 

[TonyWilliams]

No it's cool...it's not that I absolutely need the fast DC charger...but I just want to understand what is the best solution for the fastest charging for the Spark EV were I to get one (for home charging).

The absolute best you can do with your Spark EV at home is 16 amps at 240 volts for your 3.3kW charger onboard the car.

If you buy a charging station that is 30 amps or more, it will still only charge the car at 16 amps maximum.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't have a problem with people trying to explain the issues with the different DC charging. I just don't have time with people who insult and use childish names to make a point. Which is why I blocked all of Tony's comments. I'm here to talk about the Spark EV and nothing else.

I'm not sure what specific issues or comments. you refer to, but I use the term "unwashed masses" to mean folks who are not up-to-speed on EV issues and will be robbed at dealerships if they let them.

If you're buying a Spark EV and don't know the Frankenolug issues, and you think you need quick DC charging, you aren't prepared to buy.

You won't find the information that I freely provide at your Chevy or BMW dealer, I absolutely guarantee it.

 

[nozferatu]

I'm not sure what specific issues or comments. you refer to, but I use the term "unwashed masses" to mean folks who are not up-to-speed on EV issues and will be robbed at dealerships if they let them.

If you're buying a Spark EV and don't know the Frankenolug issues, and you think you need quick DC charging, you aren't prepared to buy.

You won't find the information that I freely provide at your Chevy or BMW dealer, I absolutely guarantee it.

But that's why people are here...to learn. Not everyone knows everything about EV's but to say since we don't we aren't prepared to buy....that's absurd. If you want EV's to gain traction and be more attractive to more people, you're not going to have that happen with that sort of mentality I absolutely guarantee that too.

This stuff shouldn't be so complicated....pick the car, pick the charger, understand the differences, and be done with it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This stuff shouldn't be so complicated....pick the car, pick the charger, understand the differences, and be done with it.

We actually agree. Understand the differences, or you're not prepared to buy.

And, really, it's not that complicated.

 

[nozferatu]

Right...so teach people so they understand the differences. That's the key. Not a single thread on this site has broken this down in laymans terms for everyone to see...that should be the most important Sticky on this website...not the car, not the quality, not anything else...but the charging options and how they affect people.

 

[cwerdna]

This stuff shouldn't be so complicated....pick the car, pick the EVSE, understand the differences, and be done with it.

We actually agree. Understand the differences, or you're not prepared to buy.

And, really, it's not that complicated.

Yep. (Fixed his post again.)

For me, I have no EVSE installed at home. I get generously provided free workplace charging via their L2 EVSEs. Sometimes, I fall back to using my the 120 volt L1 EVSE, which is what I use at home to charge, which isn't often.

 

[Time2go]

I agree with you. Since this is a Spark EV forum I think we should only be talking about the charging options with the Spark. How Telsa and Nissan charge aren't really important to the people on this forum. And when it comes to how people spend they're money it's not my concern. I also have free L2 charging at work and it's a 10 minute walk from my house to free L2 charging so I rarely charge at home but once in awhile ill top off using 110 at home. To me leasing the Spark EV for commuting was one of the best things I've done.

 

[NomadMac]

No it's cool...it's not that I absolutely need the fast DC charger...but I just want to understand what is the best solution for the fastest charging for the Spark EV were I to get one (for home charging).

The absolute best you can do with your Spark EV at home is 16 amps at 240 volts for your 3.3kW charger onboard the car.

If you buy a charging station that is 30 amps or more, it will still only charge the car at 16 amps maximum.

I have the Bosch 16 amp EVSE arriving on Monday. Seemed like the best deal at $435 and I already have a 20 amp outlet in my garage for my welder, so, other than paying my electrician to put a pig tail on it, no installation charge. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[MysteriousJ]

You won't find the information that I freely provide at your Chevy or BMW dealer, I absolutely guarantee it.

That's exactly the point and agree. Sometimes you need the cold-hard truth to be told.

As a matter of fact, when I was test driving Chevy Sparks a few months ago I was being given misinformation about the DC Fast charger on the Spark. It's obvious that dealerships are not prepared or trained to sell these vehicles. The salesman was showing the a list of DC Fast chargers from plugshare on a computer in the showroom thinking that all DC Fast chargers on there (being Chademo only) worked for the Spark EV.

 

[cwerdna]

Since this is a Spark EV forum I think we should only be talking about the charging options with the Spark. How Telsa and Nissan charge aren't really important to the people on this forum.

Disagree. Sure, it's important. It can help w/a pre-purchase decision for either their first EV or future ones. Talking ONLY about the Spark EV is closing off all the other EVs (both their pros and cons). Chevy only sold 539 Spark EVs in the US last year. In contrast, the world's best selling EV, the Leaf sold over 22.6K units in the US last year.

And, it's sometimes necessary to explain the benefits of/what cars will/won't benefit from higher than 16 amp 208/240 volt EVSEs.

The Spark EV and '13+ Leaf S w/o the charge package are the only currently sold as new mass-market highway legal BEVs w/o a 6+ kW on-board charger. So, if you're looking for faster L2 charging, like when you want to opportunity charge on many/most public L2 EVSE, the Spark EV is the wrong car.

The Spark EV is the ONLY shipping vehicle in the US w/J1772 CCS. So, if you're looking for a more ubiquitous DC FC network, the Spark EV is the wrong car.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You won't find the information that I freely provide at your Chevy or BMW dealer, I absolutely guarantee it.

That's exactly the point and agree. Sometimes you need the cold-hard truth to be told.

As a matter of fact, when I was test driving Chevy Sparks a few months ago I was being given misinformation about the DC Fast charger on the Spark. It's obvious that dealerships are not prepared or trained to sell these vehicles. The salesman was showing the a list of DC Fast chargers from plugshare on a computer in the showroom thinking that all DC Fast chargers on there (being Chademo only) worked for the Spark EV.

When I first signed on to this forum, there was already one guy who had bought the Spark EV because the Chevy dealer lied / didn't know / didn't care about the DC charging availability of Frankenplug.

He was able to return the car, but others might be stuck with a car that doesn't meet their needs if they didn't know ahead of time.

When I was at the San Diego auto show last year, the spokesman told all about the numerous Frankenplug stations. I told him he was wrong, at the time there was exactly ZERO.