Fast DC charging

[gra]

...So Im about to get a Spark EV and there is a Spark EV with quick charging provisions on its way should be here in about a month. Are you saying its completely not worth waiting a month for the quick charge option and just get one without it? Id like to occasionally have the option to take it on a longer trip to like Sacramento and was assured by GM dealerships that there should be a few sae combos installed enough for that type of travel of a the next year atleast one in dealerships.

I'd wait and get one with CCS. The one state you can be sure there will eventually be CCS QCs is California, and they will be located around L.A., San Diego, Sacramento and the Bay Area, as well as some in the San Joaquin Valley. But you'll probably have to wait a year or so for them to start appearing, just as LEAF owners had to do with CHAdeMO. Why severely limit the car's future utility for the sake of a few months wait?

 

[Sparkie]

Thanks Gra, I was thinking the same thing.

Cheers,
Luke

 

[fengshui]

Im doing a lease with intent to buy. Im finishing up my last semester of college and want an EV and this one seems to have the performance I care about.

Be careful about doing this. If you lease, you can't claim the federal tax credit (the bank claims it), but they have many ways to include it on your lease paperwork. If they incorporate the tax credit by increasing the residual value, you won't get to take advantage of the credit when you buy the car at the end of the lease. If they include the tax credit as a capitalization, then you're okay. Residual on a 36 month lease should be around 40%.

 

[Sparkie]

From what they told me they take the 7500 and apply it to the loan so that It takes off the 7500 immediately off the end price. They were showing me somewhere around 16k buy option in the end. Is that right?

Im still in college so the goal here is to pay as little as possible. Im putting $5,000k down to keep my payments super low and reduce my residual end value when it comes time to buy. Am I being deceived?

-Luke

 

[ecilopaveht]

From what they told me they take the 7500 and apply it to the loan so that It takes off the 7500 immediately off the end price. They were showing me somewhere around 16k buy option in the end. Is that right?

Im still in college so the goal here is to pay as little as possible. Im putting $5,000k down to keep my payments super low and reduce my residual end value when it comes time to buy. Am I being deceived?

-Luke

Well it depends, what are the monthly payments they are quoting you?

A few things to think about....

1. You put down 5k to keep payments low, lets say 1 month after you get the vehicle you are involved in an accident the car is totaled you just lost 5k. - You may be better off putting that in the bank and making your payments from this amount.

2. Lets say sticker is 27,300 now you put down $5,000 You are now leasing $22,300. with a residual of $16,000 your payments will be $6,300 over 36 months. With monthly payments of $175.00 The math does not add up to a good deal.

3. A lower residual is not always better; concentrate on the amount you are "purchasing the car for" You should negotiate the lease as if you are buying it. The lower the purchase price you get; the better deal.

4. DO NOT NEGOTIATE IN PERSON! Email several dealers and play them off each other.

Here is what I got by just using email.
36 Mo. 12k year
$2500 Down (Incudes first payment)
Residual $17,237
$149.71 mo. payment

 

[goaliepride]

So are any of these in existence now? Or are we still waiting on them. Any ETA for the fast charge option to be available?

 

[Sparkie]

Expect the Spark EV with quick charging provisions to be in showrooms November-December. Thats what the dealers keep telling me.

-Luke

 

[brlister]

Having owned my Spark EV for a week now, I'm going to throw my .02 in just so everyone can have the input in making their decisions. First, Chevy made a huge mistake in using the 3.3 charging system. Using a public station to put a full charge in takes 6.5 hours, while the other current cars with the 6.6 can charge in 1/2 that time.

Second, Chevy should have the car default to the 12 amp when using 110 instead of the 8 amp. I can go in and change it each time, although it is a pain. My wife will not, and it will take FOREVER at 110v 8 amps to charge.

Third, there needs to be proper dealer education on the DC quick charge issue. There are currently not any in So. Cal, although I understand there is one going in, and I expect that there will be others long before the end of my lease. I was informed that it can be dealer added before the end of the year for a cost of $750, if I want to add it. I have challenged them on this, and they are checking with GM on it. The two people that went to their training on the car both say that is what they were told. I will update when I get a response.

If you are leasing the car for short trips from home, and can either get by on the 110 v (make sure to change it to 12 amp each time you charge....doesn't take long, but shouldn't be necessary) or a 220 3.3kW slow system, it is a great car. The rest of the car is great, its achielles' heel is the charging system.

 

[brlister]

Here is the update to my previous post. The dealership checked with GM and just informed me that they were mis-informed and that there is no way to retrofit a Spark EV for fast charging once it leaves the factory without this capability. Their only suggestion was that they would provide a link to a website that would get me a rebate on a 220 charger.

 

[fengshui]

Here is what I got by just using email.
36 Mo. 12k year
$2500 Down (Incudes first payment)
Residual $17,237
$149.71 mo. payment

If you buy the car for $17,237 at the end of this lease, I think you're getting screwed out of the $7500 tax credit that they're receiving on your behalf. Here are my numbers:
36 payments * 149.71/mo = $5389.56
$2500 down payment
$17,237 purchase price at lease end.

Total cost to you, $25,126.56. That's $1500 off the MSRP, pretty good. However, GM/US Bank has gotten $7,500 as a credit from the federal government, and you're not seeing any of that. Your purchase price after the lease should reflect that tax credit, and be around $13k, not $17k (presuming that you pay some cost for leasing over buying).

 

[ecilopaveht]

Here is what I got by just using email.
36 Mo. 12k year
$2500 Down (Incudes first payment)
Residual $17,237
$149.71 mo. payment

If you buy the car for $17,237 at the end of this lease, I think you're getting screwed out of the $7500 tax credit that they're receiving on your behalf. Here are my numbers:
36 payments * 149.71/mo = $5389.56
$2500 down payment
$17,237 purchase price at lease end.

Total cost to you, $25,126.56. That's $1500 off the MSRP, pretty good. However, GM/US Bank has gotten $7,500 as a credit from the federal government, and you're not seeing any of that. Your purchase price after the lease should reflect that tax credit, and be around $13k, not $17k (presuming that you pay some cost for leasing over buying).

Nope; I am not keeping it never planned on it. I did not want a low residual that would have made my monthly payments more. They can keep the $7,500 for all I care. I would not have been able to use it any way if I bought the car. I put Solar on my house and that ate up my tax liability for this year, the $7,500 credit would have gone down the drain. I also figured that in 3 years the DC fast chargers will be readily available and I will get Spark EV with the Fast DC and HOPEFULLY a 6.6kw or more charger

 

[LH422]

Extremely valuable discussion here -- I thank all of you for sharing your extensive knowledge.

I'm stymied on the fast charger situation. I love the car, having test driven it a few times, love the power and pickup (though I've yet tried to cram my entire family into it, even for a short haul.) Wanted to lease one this week. But I too received an email from GM confirming the lack of a retrofit for fast charging. I quote: "You are correct, there will not be a retrofit to upgrade current Spark EVs to be DC fast charge capable. We expect to start offering the charging upgrade on Spark EVs at the end of this year. Hope this works for your timing."

I was planning to wait, but comments here about the lack of chargers have actually started me thinking I'm being silly. I plan to charge it at home, I don't plan to take it cross country, and honestly I can't imagine the odds of having a fast charger placed anywhere I need it to be are very good. For that matter, I can't imagine planning trips that will absolutely require my finding recharging of any kind en route, because from what I hear, public charging stations are starting to fill up here in LA. I picture myself arriving at, say, the Century City Shopping Mall and finding their five charge stations filled with five EVs, and I have to stand around hoping someone shows up to move their car so I can get some power. It's bad enough waiting in line at a gas pump where the typical transaction takes five minutes, but if someone wants to charge their car for a couple hours while they shop, I could wait an hour or more just to find a charging station slot.

Perhaps I should get the lease without the fast-charge option, and plan to charge at home for the next three years, then as as been suggested, toss the keys back to the dealer in 2016 and move on to whatever has evolved as the best choice then.

By the way, I've been offered $199/month (plus tax) with $1k down and $2500 back immediately from the State of CA, so I effectively get most of the first year free (plus a carpool sticker). If that $149/month deal is a California dealer, I'm interested to know where to get it.

 

[ecilopaveht]

Extremely valuable discussion here -- I thank all of you for sharing your extensive knowledge.

I'm stymied on the fast charger situation. I love the car, having test driven it a few times, love the power and pickup (though I've yet tried to cram my entire family into it, even for a short haul.) Wanted to lease one this week. But I too received an email from GM confirming the lack of a retrofit for fast charging. I quote: "You are correct, there will not be a retrofit to upgrade current Spark EVs to be DC fast charge capable. We expect to start offering the charging upgrade on Spark EVs at the end of this year. Hope this works for your timing."

I was planning to wait, but comments here about the lack of chargers have actually started me thinking I'm being silly. I plan to charge it at home, I don't plan to take it cross country, and honestly I can't imagine the odds of having a fast charger placed anywhere I need it to be are very good. For that matter, I can't imagine planning trips that will absolutely require my finding recharging of any kind en route, because from what I hear, public charging stations are starting to fill up here in LA. I picture myself arriving at, say, the Century City Shopping Mall and finding their five charge stations filled with five EVs, and I have to stand around hoping someone shows up to move their car so I can get some power. It's bad enough waiting in line at a gas pump where the typical transaction takes five minutes, but if someone wants to charge their car for a couple hours while they shop, I could wait an hour or more just to find a charging station slot.

Perhaps I should get the lease without the fast-charge option, and plan to charge at home for the next three years, then as as been suggested, toss the keys back to the dealer in 2016 and move on to whatever has evolved as the best choice then.

By the way, I've been offered $199/month (plus tax) with $1k down and $2500 back immediately from the State of CA, so I effectively get most of the first year free (plus a carpool sticker). If that $149/month deal is a California dealer, I'm interested to know where to get it.

I would just get the Lease and toss the keys in 3 years. Sorry but my deal was here in Oregon. You get the nice $2,500 back! I wish Oregon did that! If you look at the fast charging in the way the leaf rolled out it makes for a good argument to skip on the fast charging option. It took about 3 years for the Leaf to have a good infrastructure for fast charging. I would assume there would be about the same build up time for the new standard, or worse case scenario it does not catch on and you are stuck with an option you paid for, and the nearest charger may be 100 miles away what good would that do you?

 

[goaliepride]

I just got this email, "Spark's with the DC will not be in production until December which means we will most likely be seeing delivery in March.Would you like to reserve and/or submit an order with a 1,000.00 refundable deposit so you may be among the first to take delivery?? "

Is that right?

 

[ecilopaveht]

I just got this email, "Spark's with the DC will not be in production until December which means we will most likely be seeing delivery in March.Would you like to reserve and/or submit an order with a 1,000.00 refundable deposit so you may be among the first to take delivery?? "

Is that right?

From what I put together Orders start this month; Production is Mid to late December and delivery is 6 to eight weeks from production. So you are looking at late February to early March. Seems to be a long to wait for something you can't even use at the moment.

 

[Sesamecrunch]

I just got this email, "Spark's with the DC will not be in production until December which means we will most likely be seeing delivery in March.Would you like to reserve and/or submit an order with a 1,000.00 refundable deposit so you may be among the first to take delivery?? "

Is that right?

The dealer that sold mine said there were DC charge capable Spark EV's on a boat from Korea, scheduled to arrive in November. They were taking deposits on them.

I decided that I really didn't need DC charging for my routes (and the fact that I have a Prius I can use for long drives). I'll also toss the keys back at the end of 3 years. There will be much change in technology by then, and I'll make a more permanent decision at that time.

For now, this Spark EV is a blast to drive. Did my first Sport mode fun drive yesterday. WooHoo! Been a long time since I felt that kind of acceleration ('94 Mazda RX-7).

 

[REB]

I understand the frustration of those waiting for the fast chargers but I wouldn't sell the 220 volt charger short. And this is available right now. If you are a multiple vehicle family and at least one of the vehicles is used as a daily commuter within the Sparks round trip range in the coldest or hottest months the Spark should do just fine with the 7 hour recharge at night and possibly during the day if TOU works for you or you have solar. This assumes you have a second vehicle available.

If the Spark is your only vehicle then I don't think the fast charger will solve enough of your problems in using just the Spark exclusively.

I am also not sure of what the fast chargers would do to the longevity of the battery.

Ross

 

[LH422]

I too received an email saying DC charge option cars are being ordered now and will arrive in 6-8 weeks.

As for the non-existent DC charging network, this might prove interesting:

http://www.plugincars.com/southern-california-air-district-targets-grocery-stores-quick-charge-locations-128416.html

It's a story about how Kroger is planning to install 20 fast chargers at Albertsons and Ralphs grocery stores along highway corridors in Los Angeles, San Diego and Phoenix. "The new quick chargers, coming by virtue of SCAQMD, will include CHADeMO plugs and also the Society of Automotive Engineers so-called combo-plug if it is available when deployment begins in 2014"

I'm still mulling waiting for the DC option, and this makes me think there might be a greater than zero possibility that I might actually use one of these during the next three years of a lease.

 

[cwerdna]

I just got this email, "Spark's with the DC will not be in production until December which means we will most likely be seeing delivery in March.Would you like to reserve and/or submit an order with a 1,000.00 refundable deposit so you may be among the first to take delivery?? "

Is that right?

The dealer that sold mine said there were DC charge capable Spark EV's on a boat from Korea, scheduled to arrive in November. They were taking deposits on them.

Well, does anyone actually have one w/J1772 CCS?

 

[NomadMac]

Novato Chevrolet's website states there's a blue 2 with CCS in transit.