HID Option?

[Dinoco]

Haven't been on the forum in a while but want to clarify the led bulbs that I installed and mentioned a couple pages back. The pattern is spot on. You have to be sure you have them installed correctly. They will lock in either the vertical or horizontal position. I was ready to give up before I discovered this. Once I reinstalled it worked out great. Not dangerous at all.

Simply put it will lock in 2 different positions. Can't remember if it was the vertical or horizontal position and am not at the car right now. Will post more details when I can take pics for everyone.

 

[nozferatu]

Haven't been on the forum in a while but want to clarify the led bulbs that I installed and mentioned a couple pages back. The pattern is spot on. You have to be sure you have them installed correctly. They will lock in either the vertical or horizontal position. I was ready to give up before I discovered this. Once I reinstalled it worked out great. Not dangerous at all.

Simply put it will lock in 2 different positions. Can't remember if it was the vertical or horizontal position and am not at the car right now. Will post more details when I can take pics for everyone.

Interesting.

The instructions that came with mine mentioned that I can rotate the bulb housing to the correct position...but I can't seem to be able to do that. Mine lock at 30 degrees off the horizontal. I didn't get a chance to try them out tonight but will tomorrow.

What set did you get?

One thing I'm NOT too keen on is the color these lights run at...they are a weird bluish white...the type you see on those cars that are wannabe racers...not the clean crisp colours you see on stock HID/LED high end cars. Yes I know...those are probably far more expensive units and have projector systems in them. Still.

 

[NORTON]

...the headlight unit on the car already has a rubber o-ring attached to the bulb hole...

This is what I mentioned earlier. The bulbs have the seals. Not the headlight assembly.
They just got stuck on the headlight. You should peal them off the headlight. They belong on the bulb.
Auto parts stores sell little 'ketchup packs' of silicone grease to keep these rubber seals lubed and sealed better.


As for clocking, I thought I was only able to install them one way only. The 3 tabs are not symmetrical.
Idea ! Can one of the tabs be trimmed a little to allow 3 different positions? There could be 3 separate positions, 120° apart. It won't be 180°
People do this with other similar model of HID's

Good luck.

What is the color rating of the LED's? My HID's are rated 4300K with is supposed to be close to stock incandescent bulbs, but it is not. These HID's are way whiter.
And I'm starting to like them a lot ! They are 35 watt so I'm saving power and definitely more light ! The pattern is not ideal but not unsafe.

I was looking at my cars reflection in a store window in Full Sunlight. I switched quickly between 'Auto' and 'ON'.
I thought when in Auto in sunlight the headlights are dimmer in a Daytime Running Light mode. I don't see this.
What I see is the park lights come on with the headlight in ON and headlights only in Auto.

 

[Arktctr]

Haven't been on the forum in a while but want to clarify the led bulbs that I installed and mentioned a couple pages back. The pattern is spot on. You have to be sure you have them installed correctly. They will lock in either the vertical or horizontal position. I was ready to give up before I discovered this. Once I reinstalled it worked out great. Not dangerous at all.

Simply put it will lock in 2 different positions. Can't remember if it was the vertical or horizontal position and am not at the car right now. Will post more details when I can take pics for everyone.

Please do! I am curious about the kit you picked up. Thanks!

 

[nozferatu]

...the headlight unit on the car already has a rubber o-ring attached to the bulb hole...

This is what I mentioned earlier. The bulbs have the seals. Not the headlight assembly.
They just got stuck on the headlight. You should peal them off the headlight. They belong on the bulb.
Auto parts stores sell little 'ketchup packs' of silicone grease to keep these rubber seals lubed and sealed better.


As for clocking, I thought I was only able to install them one way only. The 3 tabs are not symmetrical.
Idea ! Can one of the tabs be trimmed a little to allow 3 different positions? There could be 3 separate positions, 120° apart. It won't be 180°
People do this with other similar model of HID's

Good luck.

What is the color rating of the LED's? My HID's are rated 4300K with is supposed to be close to stock incandescent bulbs, but it is not. These HID's are way whiter.
And I'm starting to like them a lot ! They are 35 watt so I'm saving power and definitely more light ! The pattern is not ideal but not unsafe.

I was looking at my cars reflection in a store window in Full Sunlight. I switched quickly between 'Auto' and 'ON'.
I thought when in Auto in sunlight the headlights are dimmer in a Daytime Running Light mode. I don't see this.
What I see is the park lights come on with the headlight in ON and headlights only in Auto.

Hmmmm...I'll have to check the seal thing. I'm pretty sure my old bulbs still had a ring on them even after removing them but I'll check again.

The idea you have may be possible but it's difficult to tell whether or not trimming the tabs on the bulb may or may not all the locking to take place. If the tabs are to be a certain width to allow locking, trimming them will render the assembly locking scheme useless so whoever does it be careful.


As far as I can tell from the specs, mine are rating at 6K: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VNBEBCS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s02

6K, 80w 7,000Lm Cool White CREE - 40 Watts per bulb. They do make a humming sound when on...so this thing has fans.

I'll scan the installation instructions as I feel they are somewhat confusing. Maybe someone can make heads or tails out of it.

Part of the issue I think we have with these types of lights frankly are the reflector housing itself. These housings are not designed for sharp, intense, lighting systems as you see with either HIDs or factory built LEDs with very specific housing designs and/or projector housings. The Spark's housing is an typical, run of the mill reflector design that's really meant for standard wide-spread beam halogens IMO.

I've still got to try this puppy out at night...I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[sTeeve]

...the headlight unit on the car already has a rubber o-ring attached to the bulb hole...

What I see is the park lights come on with the headlight in ON and headlights only in Auto.

I see the same thing with stock headlamps.

-Bob K.

 

[NORTON]

..... The Spark's housing is an typical, run of the mill reflector design that's really meant for standard wide-spread beam halogens IMO.
I've still got to try this puppy out at night...I'll keep you guys posted.

Yeah, 6k is starting to get too blueish white.
Yep, the reflector is made to work with an incandescent that puts out a 360° light. These LED's are Lo/Hi 180° apart. We need to find a brand that
But with more lumens, and if the pattern can be set to have the proper low beam cutoff pattern, we would have a better lights than stock.

I was only mentioning the trimming of of one of the tabs width to possibly allow it to clock in a position what make the proper pattern. This was a fix for some VOLT HID installs for a 9006 bulb.
Of course if you are going to return them don't modify them.

So it seems the Spark EV does not have a pulsed DC power going to the bulbs in DRL mode. That should eliminate any discussion of LED's, or HID's, not working with the PWM DRL signal. Correct?

Please send wall pictures of the Lo and Hi patterns.

I'm going to post pictures of my reflection in store front windows to show another view with one HID and one stock headlight. I'm starting to like these HID's!

 

[nozferatu]

OK so here are some pics I took after installing and playing around with the units.

OK so here's the deal with the clocking:

The LED bulb unit and its housing are locked in a position by a set screw. I had to remove that set screw to rotate the LED to the VERTICAL direction once the bulb tabs were locked into the head unit.

So the LEDS are nice and level as you see in the pictures when they are in the VERTICAL DIRECTION i.e. they are an "I" when you look at them from the front of the car (perpendicular to the floor)

The LED housing is press fit into the sleeve that has the tabs which allow locking onto the car's headlight unit. When I remove the setscrew to allow rotation of the LED bulb, it makes it difficult to rotate the sleeve into locking position inside the headlight unit because the force required to rotate the sleeve into locking position is more than the press-fit friction between the LED bulb and its sleeve. So it a challenge to finally get the sleeve to lock into place. Once it did, I was able to rotate the LED bulbs to the correct clocking angle. Time will tell if the press-fit friction between the sleeve and LED bulb housing is sufficient to hold the LED clocking in place. I imagine it is as it definitely won't freely rotate.

The quality and design of the bulbs seem OK but the mechanical design and availability to adjust clocking are poor.

But as you can see, my clocking is now spot on. It'll be interesting to see how bright these are at night. In my dark garage (last two shots) it seems pretty bright and definitely cleaner in beam quality than the halogens. I would have liked the color to be more BRIGHT white not this bluish hue. But I'm not sure what temperature bright white corresponds to.

Hope that helps!

 

[NORTON]

>So the LEDS are nice and level as you see in the pictures when they are in the VERTICAL DIRECTION i.e. they are an "I" when you look at them from the front of the car (perpendicular to the floor)

>>... Once it did, I was able to rotate the LED bulbs to the correct clocking angle. Time will tell if the press-fit friction between the sleeve and LED bulb housing is sufficient to hold the LED clocking in place. I imagine it is as it definitely won't freely rotate.

>>>But as you can see, my clocking is now spot on. It'll be interesting to see how bright these are at night. In my dark garage (last two shots) it seems pretty bright and definitely cleaner in beam quality than the halogens.

>>>>Hope that helps!

>Are you saying the led elements are pointing up and down in the reflector? Hi and Lo would matter which is which.

>>This sounds great !!

>>> What are the last two shots? They look the same. Are these Lo beams and Hi beams?
It will be good to see the patterns at night on a wall or garage door at a little distance !

>>>>This is definitely helps !!! Thanks for posting. It sounds like you might have a winner! Finding that the elements can be rotated when the base is locked in the housing is a big deal.
I was about to take a chance on another brand of LED but I'm now waiting for your report.

 

[nozferatu]

>So the LEDS are nice and level as you see in the pictures when they are in the VERTICAL DIRECTION i.e. they are an "I" when you look at them from the front of the car (perpendicular to the floor)

>>... Once it did, I was able to rotate the LED bulbs to the correct clocking angle. Time will tell if the press-fit friction between the sleeve and LED bulb housing is sufficient to hold the LED clocking in place. I imagine it is as it definitely won't freely rotate.

>>>But as you can see, my clocking is now spot on. It'll be interesting to see how bright these are at night. In my dark garage (last two shots) it seems pretty bright and definitely cleaner in beam quality than the halogens.

>>>>Hope that helps!

>Are you saying the led elements are pointing up and down in the reflector? Hi and Lo would matter which is which.

>>This sounds great !!

>>> What are the last two shots? They look the same. Are these Lo beams and Hi beams?
It will be good to see the patterns at night on a wall or garage door at a little distance !

>>>>This is definitely helps !!! Thanks for posting. It sounds like you might have a winner! Finding that the elements can be rotated when the base is locked in the housing is a big deal.
I was about to take a chance on another brand of LED but I'm now waiting for your report.

Yes the two pics are the same.

Just remember I had to take out the locking set screw to allow the bulbs to rotate. They are not designed to be rotated it seems but I found a way to do it. So if you are careful, there will be no damage done to the set screw threads. Just keep that in mind.

I'll keep you posted. I may return these though because they are just a bit too blue for me.

Cheers

 

[nozferatu]

So here's a pic of the lights at night...

It's bright...considerably brighter than the stock bulbs.

But there is something lacking. It just doesn't feel "right." The headlight unit is also an important part of the equation and a slick lighting system requires it.

Plus the lighting is so blue that it feels a tad boy-racer-ish.

But the quality of the lighting is impressive I must say...bright. Very bright.

 

[NORTON]

noz,

I hope that is the High Beams in your picture. You are lighting up street signs way down the road.
If these are your Lo beams you have a problem. I pity the oncoming traffic.

What about decent shots detailing the Hi and Lo patterns on a garage door or wall at a ~20 ft. distance?

 

[nozferatu]

noz,

I hope that is the High Beams in your picture. You are lighting up street signs way down the road.
If these are your Lo beams you have a problem. I pity the oncoming traffic.

What about decent shots detailing the Hi and Lo patterns on a garage door or wall at a ~20 ft. distance?

Hi NORTON,

You cannot judge the lighting direction or aim by pictures alone. These are lo-beams but the lighting up of the street lights is not from direct lighting but rather reflection of the lighting off the floor. Don't forget the camera over-exposes and the focus of the light is where it's completed white-washed...which is on the floor. So don't get too wound up about it as what you're thinking is not the case. I made sure the lights are not hitting anyone's eyes as you think they are.

If your low beams are so low that all you are doing is lighting up concrete 10 ft in front of your car, it's as dangerous if not so as being too high. Keep that in mind as well. Lighting is supposed to serve two purposes: A) to allow others to see you and B) for you to see where you are going and give you enough light to avoid obstacles. At 60 MPH you're traveling almost 6 1/2 car lengths per second of distance (roughly 90ft feet).

So I actually did an experiment to set my light high and walked about a block away from where my car was and looked back. I made sure it's not shining in my eyes.

Regardless, this set may be returned like I said earlier due to the hue of the light.

I'll get you pictures off the wall/door later.

 

[NORTON]

noz,
Thanks for the info. We'll be looking forward to 'wall pattern' pictures.

I don't understand: 'setting your lights high, then walking a block away'. If you had your Hi beams on they should be shining in your eyes.

I've been poking around some LED vs. HID vs. Halogen sites, like this one: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?387680-LED-headlight-bulbs-illegal
Some other sites have excellent pictures of before / after conversion.
I added HID's to my Volt which uses projector beam headlights. They are the best to convert. The area above the low beam cutoff is BLACK. No light is spilling out above the cutoff line.

I'm starting to question if an LED bulb in an H13 headlight assembly will ever work correctly. The reflector is expecting a 360° light source from one of two different tiny filaments.
These LED's are Hi / Lo 180° apart, correct? One side is Hi, the other LO. The JDM set I had was one side or the other, not both at the same time.

HID's may be the way to go with this car. They put out a 360° light source. And 35 watts make a lot of lumens.
Even then there is the question of decent Lo beam pattern with minimal 'spillage' above the Lo beam cutoff line.

I'm going to be posting better pics of my HID installation. I only have one side converted so I can cover one light, then the other, to compare the HID to stock patterns.
Maybe you could post the same.

 

[NORTON]

Haven't been on the forum in a while but want to clarify the led bulbs that I installed and mentioned a couple pages back. The pattern is spot on. You have to be sure you have them installed correctly. They will lock in either the vertical or horizontal position. I was ready to give up before I discovered this. Once I reinstalled it worked out great. Not dangerous at all.

Simply put it will lock in 2 different positions. Can't remember if it was the vertical or horizontal position and am not at the car right now. Will post more details when I can take pics for everyone.

Dino,

Could you post some 'wall pattern' pictures of the Lo and Hi beams you get from the set of LED's you installed?

Thanks, B

 

[nozferatu]

noz,
Thanks for the info. We'll be looking forward to 'wall pattern' pictures.

I don't understand: 'setting your lights high, then walking a block away'. If you had your Hi beams on they should be shining in your eyes.

I've been poking around some LED vs. HID vs. Halogen sites, like this one: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?387680-LED-headlight-bulbs-illegal
Some other sites have excellent pictures of before / after conversion.
I added HID's to my Volt which uses projector beam headlights. They are the best to convert. The area above the low beam cutoff is BLACK. No light is spilling out above the cutoff line.

I'm starting to question if an LED bulb in an H13 headlight assembly will ever work correctly. The reflector is expecting a 360° light source from one of two different tiny filaments.
These LED's are Hi / Lo 180° apart, correct? One side is Hi, the other LO. The JDM set I had was one side or the other, not both at the same time.

HID's may be the way to go with this car. They put out a 360° light source. And 35 watts make a lot of lumens.
Even then there is the question of decent Lo beam pattern with minimal 'spillage' above the Lo beam cutoff line.

I'm going to be posting better pics of my HID installation. I only have one side converted so I can cover one light, then the other, to compare the HID to stock patterns.
Maybe you could post the same.

Sorry I mean setting my lights ON not high...typo.

Anyway, I actually removed them and put the stock bulbs back. I just wasn't liking the blue hue...felt cheap and boy-racerish to me.

I did learn a few things from this experience though:

1) 6K is too blue of a color temperature.

2) If your headlight unit isn't designed from the onset for HID or LED lights, it's somewhat pointless to add these lights as aftermarket. Why? Because the light pattern will never match a good projector design or factory designed head unit that is built for focused light products like these.

3) I want factory HID/LEDs on my next car. I think halogens overall are a joke these days and there really is no excuse for a car maker NOT to offer cars with proper headlight units and LEDs given how low cost they have become. This car would have looked great with a projector headlight set and proper HID/LED lights.

4) These bulbs did work properly...to answer your if LEDs will ever work properly....but the hue was just off.

5) Some HID/LED sets that are probably the best in the biz right now: BMW, Benz, Lexus, even some Hyundai lights. These headlight sets are how to do it right.

 

[nikwax]

This is a pretty good review of the xenondepot LED headlights:


http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/310-7th-generation-2012/1040969-xenondepot-new-phillips-lmz-led-headlight-kit-review.html

 

[NORTON]

These LED's look similar to the ones I tested way up thread, although the actual Led elements are different. Mine had two per side. I returned them because of the incorrect Lo beam pattern.
Keep in mind these are 9005 bulbs and headlight assemblies. I'm almost certain that a 9005 has a built-in reflector in the bulb for Lo and a separate filament out side the reflector for Hi.
This headlight assembly does not have the built in bulb reflector built into to it like the Spark does. The Spark uses H13 bulbs that don't have a reflector.
You can see that only one of those LED elements are lighting up only one half of the reflector divided vertically, at a time. How can that ever work? Maybe if it was mounted horizontally...
HID's put out 360° of light and I'll bet the 9005 version has a built in Lo beam reflector.

I just scanned the images and titles:
The HID's are putting out a nice low beam cutoff pattern and a proper high beam. ( the pics of the front of the car are perfunctory but a useless comparison. )
The LED's are spilling light all over the place. There is a weird Lo cutoff pattern AND all that light above the cutoff line should not be there and is unsafe.

 

[nikwax]

My Volvo has projector headlamps with halogen lamps, they have a nice sharp cutoff at the top surface, and a crisp step-down from left to right. That said, they are certainly the worst headlights that I've ever owned (or as bad as those on my old BMW motorbike). At 35 mph you are overdriving the light output. So I'd call them dangerous (or I need to limit my night time driving to 35 mph). And the factory fog lamps are as rubbish as factory fog lamps tend to be.



Point is, there is more to a headlight's function than candlepower, color temperature, and masking. They also have to illuminate the road. I've not driven the Spark in the dark as yet (still summer here in the northern climes).

 

[solder]

I'm interested in putting LED headlamps in my car ... from this thread, it sounds like the only happy camper here is Dinoco with these XenonDepot lights: http://www.xenondepot.com/H13-LED-Headlight-Kit-p/h13-led-hl.htm

Is that correct?