HID Option?

[solder]

noz,

Thanks for the detailed description. The ability to remove the screws and clock it is important.
I guess there wouldn't be much hope of the 3 sided LED's I linked above, even if it could be clocked.

I am intrigued by these, but it sounds like they may be a non-starter. When do you expect to receive them to try them out?

 

[NORTON]

I am intrigued by these, but it sounds like they may be a non-starter. When do you expect to receive them to try them out?

I didn't buy them.
I already bought a set of LED's and posted pics,, and then sent them back. (earlier in this thread)
Your turn ! You never know,, maybe these are easily 'clockable' and could give really good Lo and Hi patterns. Only one way to find out.


I have pretty awesome lights now with my Hi/Lo 35 watt HID setup, but I think they are not nice to oncoming drivers. I'm waiting to take some decent 'Wall' pictures of the patterns compared to the stock bulbs.

 

[Nashco]

I don't see that my expectations are that big of a deal. A Prius C comes with projector lights. A bottom of the barrel Fiat 500 which really isn't much more than a Spark comes with excellent projector lights.

The things I'm asking for are BASIC, already available, off the shelf type products that are very very easily integrated into a car.

Are you saying a better stereo and speaker system even in the cheapest of cars is such a big deal that it'll stop people from buying it?? It's not as price sensitive as you think...the average cost of a car in the States is now about $30K.

The base Fiat 500 and base Prius c cost *several* THOUSAND dollars more than the base Spark, which has a starting MSRP of under $13k (not $30k). As I said, the Spark EV is based on one of the lowest cost cars sold in the US, and that comes with many relevant compromises, including the cheapest possible headlights. This car competes in markets like Korea and India that are very price sensitive, and our Spark EV shares the vast majority of components so that it could come to market fast and reasonably priced. The 2016+ Spark has the same story.

If YOU think it's worth $1500, then why not just buy a pair of these and modify a pair of Spark headlight housings to attach them?

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-009997021-Bi-Xenon-Headlamp-Module/dp/B0030Z66BE
http://www.rallylights.com/90bl-hella-bi-led-90mm-headlamp-module-hi-low-beam.html

If you've got the cash, but not the skills, there are companies who will cut up a pair of stock housings and epoxy in these modules. When your lease is up, pull the lights off and sell them to some other Spark owner. Everybody wins!

Bryce

 

[solder]

I am intrigued by these, but it sounds like they may be a non-starter. When do you expect to receive them to try them out?

I didn't buy them.
I already bought a set of LED's and posted pics,, and then sent them back. (earlier in this thread)
Your turn ! You never know,, maybe these are easily 'clockable' and could give really good Lo and Hi patterns. Only one way to find out.


I have pretty awesome lights now with my Hi/Lo 35 watt HID setup, but I think they are not nice to oncoming drivers. I'm waiting to take some decent 'Wall' pictures of the patterns compared to the stock bulbs.

Oops, my bad

Okay, I ordered the XenonDirect ones. Tired of trying to make a decision, we'll see how I like them.

 

[nozferatu]

I don't see that my expectations are that big of a deal. A Prius C comes with projector lights. A bottom of the barrel Fiat 500 which really isn't much more than a Spark comes with excellent projector lights.

The things I'm asking for are BASIC, already available, off the shelf type products that are very very easily integrated into a car.

Are you saying a better stereo and speaker system even in the cheapest of cars is such a big deal that it'll stop people from buying it?? It's not as price sensitive as you think...the average cost of a car in the States is now about $30K.

The base Fiat 500 and base Prius c cost *several* THOUSAND dollars more than the base Spark, which has a starting MSRP of under $13k (not $30k). As I said, the Spark EV is based on one of the lowest cost cars sold in the US, and that comes with many relevant compromises, including the cheapest possible headlights. This car competes in markets like Korea and India that are very price sensitive, and our Spark EV shares the vast majority of components so that it could come to market fast and reasonably priced. The 2016+ Spark has the same story.

If YOU think it's worth $1500, then why not just buy a pair of these and modify a pair of Spark headlight housings to attach them?

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-009997021-Bi-Xenon-Headlamp-Module/dp/B0030Z66BE
http://www.rallylights.com/90bl-hella-bi-led-90mm-headlamp-module-hi-low-beam.html

If you've got the cash, but not the skills, there are companies who will cut up a pair of stock housings and epoxy in these modules. When your lease is up, pull the lights off and sell them to some other Spark owner. Everybody wins!

Bryce

Yes Bryce but you've really not given a valid argument as to why these basic upgrades cannot be added to this car for a small amount of money relative the entire purchase. If other car manufacturers can sell cars for $16-18K with sunroofs, nice lighting, a nice stereo system, better shocks, etc...then why not the Spark? That's a mass produced vehicle and the EV version is translated over with biggest modification being the powerplant. The EV isn't so price sensitive so it shouldn't be an issue. I've yet to hear a valid argument given the following:

A fully loaded Spark costs almost $18,500...and well stocked Fiat 500 can be had probably for $16K or less. The comparisons are fully valid. I bought my Fiat 500 Sport some years back at around $16.8K.

The side mirrors of a stock Spark come with side blinkers...why the omission from the EV? Aerodynamics? Of an already extremely un-aerodynamic car? I call BS on that omission. A better stereo system with an AMP? I think that was a couple hundred dollar upgrade on my Fiat at the time.

I've a better idea than buying those expensive projector lights and installing it into a housing that isn't built for it and using an hammer and chisel to install it - offer buyers an upgrade package that will probably cost no more than $600-800 on a mass produced car like the Spark and call it a day. Really...it's not that hard and should be done.

The "Z-spec" grill on the Spark build is almost $400...what do you think is more useful...a fake grill or a set of good headlights?

 

[Nashco]

Yes Bryce but you've really not given a valid argument as to why these basic upgrades cannot be added to this car for a small amount of money relative the entire purchase. ...Really...it's not that hard and should be done.

I'm not sure how much of a valid argument you need, or why I should be making valid arguments at all. My original point was that there's no need for name-calling because you didn't get the exact car you wanted, there were obvious reasons for it (minimum sticker price). That point remains. I'm not going to banter back and forth...I only ask that you focus on figuring out how to get what you want, because bad mouthing bean counters until you're blue in the face isn't going to present a solution.

I look forward to seeing if some good solutions come out of this thread.

Bryce

 

[nikwax]

I have more experience with motorcycles than with cars, and: regardless of purchase price, they're never exactly what you want. Motorcycle manufacturers always cheap out on suspension, the seat, and often brakes. Lighting is driven by style, and function is an afterthought.


American cars used to be available as BTO (build to order) and you could spec out engine, carburetors, transmission, rear drive, interiors. That costs a fortune. Modern manufacturing methodology and supply chain management dictates few if any options (one wiring harness, one radio). Cars in the low end of the price spectrum tend to be extremely price sensitive. It's all too easy to fall into "with car A you could add x,y,and z, but now you're into the same price as car B." For some people $1000 is small change, for others it's a huge sum of money. Hence, the aftermarket.



My opinion of the Spark EV is that its sins are few and virtues are many. I'm not a car audiophile, but those speakers had to go and a sub is on my shopping list. Tires were replaced the first week (do cars ever come with good tires?). Other than that, I'm very impressed with it. For what I paid for it, it's a steal. Is the BMW i3 a much more impressive car? Sure, but for an extra 20 grand it should be very impressive.


I've just gotten around to doing some night driving, and I don't think the headlights are bad at all. Certainly they are much much better than my Volvo's projector lights (which give the impression of being fueled by kerosene) or my BMW motorbike (fueled by whale oil). World class? No. Easy fix? Doubt it. Good enough for urban driving, and when I'm out in the weeds I'll try the high beams. Would be nice if there were some place to mount auxiliary driving lights: how cool would it look with an array of old school rally lights on the front bumper?



I do have to confess that Volvos are BTO in Europe and Scandinavia, you can completely order a car a la carte. Not sure how long that's going to last, given how much money Volvo loses these days. And it's a completely different market segment than the Spark.

 

[nozferatu]

Yes Bryce but you've really not given a valid argument as to why these basic upgrades cannot be added to this car for a small amount of money relative the entire purchase. ...Really...it's not that hard and should be done.

I'm not sure how much of a valid argument you need, or why I should be making valid arguments at all. My original point was that there's no need for name-calling because you didn't get the exact car you wanted, there were obvious reasons for it (minimum sticker price). That point remains. I'm not going to banter back and forth...I only ask that you focus on figuring out how to get what you want, because bad mouthing bean counters until you're blue in the face isn't going to present a solution.

I look forward to seeing if some good solutions come out of this thread.

Bryce

Name calling? Lol...I'm not sure where you going with this but thinking bean counters are screwing us and incompetent isn't really name calling.

I'm as critical with any car manufacturer as I am with GM. It doesn't matter what brand it is...they all do the same thing one way or another. The point is the Spark EV could have and should come with better standard equipment. Compare apples to apples though not minimum sticker price. If two cars are similarly priced when options are added, there is no reason why they shouldn't have similar equipment.

The solution is to vote with your dollars in the end. Buy a car that has what you want and not get short changed. I bought this car because it was an affordable EV. But I also would like some amenities that are pretty much standard these days on even budget cars. So there's really no excuse.

But let's agree to disagree.

 

[NORTON]

....Okay, I ordered the XenonDirect ones. Tired of trying to make a decision, we'll see how I like them.

Oh, Buddy,,, I think those are the exact same ones I tested, only at almost twice the price. I just now followed your link.

Please, when you install them take the time to test them before driving with them.
When you install them, shine your lights on a wall and look the low beam pattern on one side compared to the stock bulb in the other.

I'm afraid you'll see the same goofy pattern I posted on page 2 of this thread.
With the hood open and the low beams on twist the lamp to the direction to remove it. As you get close to releasing the bulb you may get a decent pattern.
That was my experience with a set of H13 LED's that looked the same.

 

[solder]

....Okay, I ordered the XenonDirect ones. Tired of trying to make a decision, we'll see how I like them.

Oh, Buddy,,, I think those are the exact same ones I tested, only at almost twice the price. I just now followed your link.

Please, when you install them take the time to test them before driving with them.
When you install them, shine your lights on a wall and look the low beam pattern on one side compared to the stock bulb in the other.

I'm afraid you'll see the same goofy pattern I posted on page 2 of this thread.
With the hood open and the low beams on twist the lamp to the direction to remove it. As you get close to releasing the bulb you may get a decent pattern.
That was my experience with a set of H13 LED's that looked the same.

Hoo boy. Okay, thanks for the warning. Have a link to the ones you tested?

I will install in one headlight and use my white garage door to test it and verify it. I see the picture you're talking about and will test for that. I was given hope by this:

Haven't been on the forum in a while but want to clarify the led bulbs that I installed and mentioned a couple pages back. The pattern is spot on. You have to be sure you have them installed correctly. They will lock in either the vertical or horizontal position. I was ready to give up before I discovered this. Once I reinstalled it worked out great. Not dangerous at all.

Simply put it will lock in 2 different positions. Can't remember if it was the vertical or horizontal position and am not at the car right now. Will post more details when I can take pics for everyone.

I've tried PMing Dinoco to ask about the position, but have not gotten a reply.

 

[Dinoco]

Hey guys and gals.

Its me. The one guy who seems to like the LED Bulbs. These are the ones I purchase.

http://www.xenondepot.com/H13-LED-Headlight-Kit-p/h13-led-hl.htm

Not bluish in color at all. Very much white like OEM HID systems.

Took a look at how I installed them - HORIZONTALLY. Vertical installation was horrible.

Will try to get a picture of the beam pattern soon. Need to find a good spot. My garage is at the top of a short but steep hill so will need to find a good wall with level ground.

 

[NORTON]

Dino,
We'll be looking forward to the pictures!

Only, as I understand H13 bulbs they have 3 tabs to lock it in place and one of them is a large 'keying' tab.
So they only go in and lock in one position.

noz, (above in this thread), was able to remove screws on the set he tried and that allowed him to clock the bulb after the base with the 3 tabs was locked in position.

Here's the set I tested and posted pictures: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UMHCCSY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

They look identical to your link.

I spoke to this vendor and they said the LED's that look like this are all from the same manufacturer: https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kits/filter/Cross_Reference_Number,H13,21,7931:?view=standard
Look down this page for excellent pictures of the pattern. BUT... All headlight reflector assemblies are different.
I bought from superbrightled.com many times and I can recommend them. Just not this particular H13 LED in the Spark EV.

 

[NORTON]

Hope I'm not over posting....

Here's a $50 set. I tried to show a picture of the large locking tab compared to the others.
With this LED bulb I assume one LED element is Lo and the other Hi. And you can kind of figure out how it will lock in position, if you wanted to...
I wouldn't even bother. I'm just showing some of the low budget, non-DOT approved junk for sale.



This is the listing, but don't bother trying it... You can see the tabs in better detail when you zoom on the listing.
http://smile.amazon.com/Car-Rover-Headlight-Bright-Headlamp/dp/B00WWCFTKU/ref=sr_1_8?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1443361824&sr=1-8&keywords=H13+led

 

[Dinoco]

That may be the case with incandescent bulbs but the LEDs I have absolutely will clock in at the 6-12 position and the 9-3 position. I installed them in the 6-12 position and hated them. Was absolutely going to return them and then I read another forum that talked about horizontal vs vertical position. Tried it. And it worked perfectly!

Dino,
We'll be looking forward to the pictures!

Only, as I understand H13 bulbs they have 3 tabs to lock it in place and one of them is a large 'keying' tab.
So they only go in and lock in one position.

noz, (above in this thread), was able to remove screws on the set he tried and that allowed him to clock the bulb after the base with the 3 tabs was locked in position.

Here's the set I tested and posted pictures: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UMHCCSY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

They look identical to your link.

I spoke to this vendor and they said the LED's that look like this are all from the same manufacturer: https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kits/filter/Cross_Reference_Number,H13,21,7931:?view=standard
Look down this page for excellent pictures of the pattern. BUT... All headlight reflector assemblies are different.
I bought from superbrightled.com many times and I can recommend them. Just not this particular H13 LED in the Spark EV.

 

[Dinoco]

Also the link you posted "looks" like mine but they use cree diodes. Mine have Philips diodes. If you believe the marketing hype the Philips are much better. Hence the difference in price.

Dino,
We'll be looking forward to the pictures!

Only, as I understand H13 bulbs they have 3 tabs to lock it in place and one of them is a large 'keying' tab.
So they only go in and lock in one position.

noz, (above in this thread), was able to remove screws on the set he tried and that allowed him to clock the bulb after the base with the 3 tabs was locked in position.

Here's the set I tested and posted pictures: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UMHCCSY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

They look identical to your link.

I spoke to this vendor and they said the LED's that look like this are all from the same manufacturer: https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kits/filter/Cross_Reference_Number,H13,21,7931:?view=standard
Look down this page for excellent pictures of the pattern. BUT... All headlight reflector assemblies are different.
I bought from superbrightled.com many times and I can recommend them. Just not this particular H13 LED in the Spark EV.

 

[nozferatu]

Still no pictures from anyone?? Come on guys how hard is to spend 5 minutes taking pictures at dusk???

 

[solder]

Okay, I just installed the XenonDirect bulbs in the horizontal clocking position and they seem good to me, at least on the garage door:

Not the cheapest option, and they ship from Canada, but so far I'm impressed.

 

[NORTON]

solder,
Just some notes:
You seem to be very close to the door.
Is that the Hi beams?
Is that the stock bulb on the left side? If so they seem put out the same pattern, but being back from the wall 20 ft or so might be better.
Without something to compare this one picture to, it's hard to tell what we are looking at.

With that said,, I'll try to get my tired az out the door tonight and post pics of:
Both HID's, Lo and Hi.
One stock/one HID, Lo and Hi.
Both stock, Lo and Hi.

I plan on placing some masking tape on the wall near the top of the Lo cutoff pattern and not move the car until I'm done taking pictures of the different configurations.
I'm not sure what is best for camera placement. From the driver's seat? Above the roof? What about just using the auto setting on the camera?
This is from this site: https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/motorcycle-led-bulbs/motorcycle-led-headlight-conversion-kit-h13-led-headlight-bulb-conversion-kit-with-flexible-tinned-copper-braid/2779/6193/#/tab/Overview

See how dark it is above the crisp Lo beam cutoff line with the 'halogens'? That light above is what gets into oncoming drivers eyes.

 

[solder]

solder,
Just some notes:
You seem to be very close to the door.
Is that the Hi beams?
Is that the stock bulb on the left side? If so they seem put out the same pattern, but being back from the wall 20 ft or so might be better.
Without something to compare this one picture to, it's hard to tell what we are looking at.

Yes, I'm about 3-5 feet from the door. I'll try to take a 20 ft picture, I should be able to do that if I park my car at the very end of the driveway.

It's the low beams, and yes, it's the stock bulb on the left.

With that said,, I'll try to get my tired az out the door tonight and post pics of:
Both HID's, Lo and Hi.
One stock/one HID, Lo and Hi.
Both stock, Lo and Hi.

I'll try to take the set of photos that you suggest at 20 feet this weekend.

 

[solder]

As promised, I took photos at 20 feet.

Just for reference, here's what the xenondepot bulb looks like:

Here are the stock halogen lamps -- lo beam, and hi beam:

Here is a mix of bulbs -- halogen on the left, LED on the right:

Here are just the LED lamps: