Leased a Spark EV with the SAE Combo charging port on 6 Jan

[gambit]

I'm growing weary of those posters who constantly use the "frankenplug" name for the non-Nissan fast charging interface. Grow up already!

Who cares?

Competition is good - Coke vs. Pepsi (Coke is way better, BTW); Betamax vs VHS (Beta was the higher-quality format, but it really doesn't matter today - I have a bunch of both Beta and VHS tapes that I'm wondering what to do with them); Less Filling or Tastes Great - doesn't matter, it's still the same Lite beer.

I would like to propose a site-wide ban on the use of the name "frankenplug" since it doesn't really serve a useful purpose here other than to let the current or prospective Spark EV driver know that they either are, or are going to be an idiot to buy or lease a Spark EV with DC fast charging that GM designed to be in compliance with a industry standard specification.

My Spark EV has been more than I expected, and my total monthly expenses is less than the cost of only gasoline that I buying each month. I almost waited for the FC option, but after living with my Spark EV for the past 6 month, I determined that I don't really need the FC option at all.

My biggest gripe so far is those drivers (both EV and non-EV cars) that camp out in the EV-only parking stalls without using the chargers - this has happened to me more that a few times but luckily didn't leave me stranded.

 

[gambit]

oh yeah -

I fully expect that my post will be flamed.

That's okay.

The little people can spew their words about how they're right and how GM is 'just playing the game" with compliance.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm growing weary of those posters who constantly use the "frankenplug" name for the non-Nissan fast charging interface. Grow up already!

CHAdeMO is compatible w/vehicles other than Nissans. See below (the C Zero and iON are rebadged i-MiEV and doing much better in Europe than the i-MiEV is doing here inthe US).

Nissan LEAF
Citroen C-Zero
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Peugeot iON
Nissan e-NV200
Citroen Berlingo
Peugeot Partner
Honda Fit EV (US version doesn't have it but JDM version appears to given http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120831Lease-Sales-Fit-EV-Japan/photo/pages/08.html and http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120831Lease-Sales-Fit-EV-Japan/index.html)

Soon, the Model S will be compatible too via http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/chademo-adapter. As we've said, the above vehicles make up an installed base of ~200K vehicles.

Who cares?
Competition is good - Coke vs. Pepsi (Coke is way better, BTW); Betamax vs VHS (Beta was the higher-quality format, but it really doesn't matter today - I have a bunch of both Beta and VHS tapes that I'm wondering what to do with them); Less Filling or Tastes Great - doesn't matter, it's still the same Lite beer.

I would like to propose a site-wide ban on the use of the name "frankenplug" since it doesn't really serve a useful purpose here other than to let the current or prospective Spark EV driver know that they either are, or are going to be an idiot to buy or lease a Spark EV with DC fast charging that GM designed to be in compliance with a industry standard specification.

It's not the same, they're not compatible, at least not for now.

It does matter. More charging standards (esp. from those who aren't serious about EVs) does not help w/EV adoption. Consumer confusion doesn't help either.

Frankenplug is a term that's been used WAY before ANY Frankenplug vehicles were shipping. Who cares about an "industry standard specification" that's years late and years behind while being virtually worthless for the time being w/no serious backers (as in, not serious about DC FC) other than BMW, which doesn't even have a DC FC capable vehicles shipping in the US yet?

And, this "industry standard specification" isn't even a world standard. In Europe, due their apparent wide use of Mennekes instead of J1772, their Frankenplug is different and not physically compatibele w/US Frankenplug. See Combo2 at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012.

My biggest gripe so far is those drivers (both EV and non-EV cars) that camp out in the EV-only parking stalls without using the chargers - this has happened to me more that a few times but luckily didn't leave me stranded.

Then you should report them to security. If there's proper signage, you can get those folks ticketed per AB 475. (I don't recall all the details about required signage. I'd have to find the proper MNL thread.) You can also leave them notes like the ones at http://www.plugincars.com/blink-offers-three-printable-notices-iced-plug-vehicles-125068.html. I've done this at work for ICEVs that have blocked our charging spots.

It is unfortunate about the way AB 475 was passed w/crap the GM slipped in (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065314_gm-riles-ca-electric-car-world-again-over-ab475-charger-sharing-ban). Chelsea Sexton wasn't thrilled about it: https://twitter.com/evchels/status/105786745332842496.

 

[nozferatu]

I'm growing weary of those posters who constantly use the "frankenplug" name for the non-Nissan fast charging interface. Grow up already!

CHAdeMO is compatible w/vehicles other than Nissans. See below (the C Zero and iON are rebadged i-MiEV and doing much better in Europe than the i-MiEV is doing here inthe US).

Nissan LEAF
Citroen C-Zero
Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Peugeot iON
Nissan e-NV200
Citroen Berlingo
Peugeot Partner
Honda Fit EV (US version doesn't have it but JDM version appears to given http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120831Lease-Sales-Fit-EV-Japan/photo/pages/08.html and http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120831Lease-Sales-Fit-EV-Japan/index.html)

Soon, the Model S will be compatible too via http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/chademo-adapter. As we've said, the above vehicles make up an installed base of ~200K vehicles.

Who cares?
Competition is good - Coke vs. Pepsi (Coke is way better, BTW); Betamax vs VHS (Beta was the higher-quality format, but it really doesn't matter today - I have a bunch of both Beta and VHS tapes that I'm wondering what to do with them); Less Filling or Tastes Great - doesn't matter, it's still the same Lite beer.

I would like to propose a site-wide ban on the use of the name "frankenplug" since it doesn't really serve a useful purpose here other than to let the current or prospective Spark EV driver know that they either are, or are going to be an idiot to buy or lease a Spark EV with DC fast charging that GM designed to be in compliance with a industry standard specification.

It's not the same, they're not compatible, at least not for now.

It does matter. More charging standards (esp. from those who aren't serious about EVs) does not help w/EV adoption. Consumer confusion doesn't help either.

Frankenplug is a term that's been used WAY before ANY Frankenplug vehicles were shipping. Who cares about an "industry standard specification" that's years late and years behind while being virtually worthless for the time being w/no serious backers (as in, not serious about DC FC) other than BMW, which doesn't even have a DC FC capable vehicles shipping in the US yet?

And, this "industry standard specification" isn't even a world standard. In Europe, due their apparent wide use of Mennekes instead of J1772, their Frankenplug is different and not physically compatibele w/US Frankenplug. See Combo2 at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012.

My biggest gripe so far is those drivers (both EV and non-EV cars) that camp out in the EV-only parking stalls without using the chargers - this has happened to me more that a few times but luckily didn't leave me stranded.

Then you should report them to security. If there's proper signage, you can get those folks ticketed per AB 475. (I don't recall all the details about required signage. I'd have to find the proper MNL thread.) You can also leave them notes like the ones at http://www.plugincars.com/blink-offers-three-printable-notices-iced-plug-vehicles-125068.html. I've done this at work for ICEVs that have blocked our charging spots.

It is unfortunate about the way AB 475 was passed w/crap the GM slipped in (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065314_gm-riles-ca-electric-car-world-again-over-ab475-charger-sharing-ban). Chelsea Sexton wasn't thrilled about it: https://twitter.com/evchels/status/105786745332842496.

I find it ironic that you are OK with the term "Frankenplug" and such nonsense when in another post you yourself clear subscribe to the notion that..and I quote

Perpetuating the wrong terminology can lead to confusion down the road

If you want people to understand be empowered with what is and isn't out there and make the "right" decisions....then let's use the official names of what EV equipment and terminology are meant to be called and indeed drop the stupid names people want to keep calling them. After all, you keep correcting people with the term "charger" actually being an EVSE all the time.

 

[cwerdna]

Yes, "those people" are called TROLLS in internet speak. I really think it hurts the EV cause more than they realize or intend. The few who come here and see that BS noise aren't put off of Spark EVs and swayed to AWeSomO, rather they decide an EV is a bad idea altogether.

Bryce

Really, huh? Tony has WAY more to promote EVs than any of us.

You'd rather people who have no about DC FC standards be lied to/be given misinformation by dealers, auto show reps, etc. and buy/lease a J1772 CCS equipped car thinking there's compatible DC FC infrastructure for them, only to realize that there's almost none?

If people want to buy J1772 CCS equipped cars or ones w/o DC FC capability, that's fine. Buy/lease them on their own merits. It's best to be educated before buying/leasing. (As I've said before, for me, the CHadeMO port on my Leaf was so far a was waste of money. Yet, folks in areas where the CHAdeMO infrastructure is good (e.g. Western WA) who also have certain usage patterns say they couldn't think if buying/leasing a Leaf w/o CHadeMO.)

 

[gambit]

@cwerda

Thanks for the blah-blah-blah words that I didn't bother to read.

Since you're so down on the SAE standard, wouldn't you find more joy, happiness and contentment in the Nissan Leaf forum?

I would welcome it if you would just leave and take your banter anywhere else - your volumes of factoids about the quantity of cars that have a non-SAE J1772 FC interface does very little to change the fact that our Spark EV's as presently configured will not be compatible with the Nissan-standard.

I'm happy with my Spark EV and will wait to see how the EVSE infrastructure evolves and changes over the next several years, at which point I will return my Spark EV and select the EV that best suites my needs and lifestyle. And I'm very, very glad that I didn't find this forum prior to making a decision to go with the Spark EV - it would have been very likely that I would not have chosen an EV at all, from all of the bashing, derogatory labeling, and at times outright hate that is spewed about the SAE standard. Your constant use of the "f-plug" moniker was a source of confusion for me initially, until I finally figured out that you don't like the fact that GM decided to either create, co-create, author, design, develop, and/or adopt the J1772 SAE standard as a business strategy decision. If you can't get over this fact, perhaps you can go elsewhere to blog and leave us alone?

 

[kenn]

Tony Frakenplug Williams and other CHAdeMO supporters need to get off the Spark Forum! Regardless of your justification, hatred is hatred. All you do on this sight is upset Spark EV advocates and cause problems that lead to EV doubt. Discussion of the Spark EV is what this forum is about. All U.S. and European manufacturers(except Tesla) have agreed to support the SAE Combo standard. Feel sure that more than one standard will be supported when warranted.

 

[nozferatu]

Yes, "those people" are called TROLLS in internet speak. I really think it hurts the EV cause more than they realize or intend. The few who come here and see that BS noise aren't put off of Spark EVs and swayed to AWeSomO, rather they decide an EV is a bad idea altogether.

Bryce

Really, huh? Tony has WAY more to promote EVs than any of us.

You'd rather people who have no about DC FC standards be lied to/be given misinformation by dealers, auto show reps, etc. and buy/lease a J1772 CCS equipped car thinking there's compatible DC FC infrastructure for them, only to realize that there's almost none?

If people want to buy J1772 CCS equipped cars or ones w/o DC FC capability, that's fine. Buy/lease them on their own merits. It's best to be educated before buying/leasing. (As I've said before, for me, the CHadeMO port on my Leaf was so far a was waste of money. Yet, folks in areas where the CHAdeMO infrastructure is good (e.g. Western WA) who also have certain usage patterns say they couldn't think if buying/leasing a Leaf w/o CHadeMO.)

Of course no one wants to be lied to...but the way you and Tony Williams go about telling people is also destructive and counterproductive. You are clearly biased. Offering information about different types of charging is meant to me neutral, concise and clear.

For your own sake, take the advice others are giving you. Your comments and posts about charging and "EVSEs" are both extremely confusing and filled with bias. Half the time you attack and criticise instead of offer proper advice. Do you realize that?

Fact of the matter is in the future as things progress, ALL manufacturers will adopt one type of plug and one type of system. Just like all manufacturers now share their IC components with everyone else and so many electronic components are the same in all cars, the same will happen with EVs.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... ALL manufacturers will adopt one type of plug and one type of system. Just like all manufacturers now share their IC components with everyone else and so many electronic components are the same in all cars, the same will happen with EVs.

What one type will that be?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony Frakenplug Williams and other CHAdeMO supporters need to get off the Spark Forum! Regardless of your justification, hatred is hatred. All you do on this sight is upset Spark EV advocates and cause problems that lead to EV doubt. Discussion of the Spark EV is what this forum is about. All U.S. and European manufacturers(except Tesla) have agreed to support the SAE Combo standard. Feel sure that more than one standard will be supported when warranted.

Well, you seem a little angry and upset, in addition to being a little fact challenged. As explained probably dozens of times, "all" U.S. and European manufacturers have NOT adopted the SAE standard. Only GM, Ford and all five German auto manufacturers.

Fiat, the majority owner of Chrysler (which is now a European headquartered company) is not on the list. Tesla, the largest EV manufacturer in the USA specifically does not use the SAE standard, nor will they ever. Actually, the famous quote from Tesla is that, "it sucks". Maybe you want to hate on them, too?

Here's the current list of ALL the world's auto manufactures that do NOT use either the German version or US specification "Combo" plug (minus the 7 mentioned above):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry

 

[nozferatu]

... ALL manufacturers will adopt one type of plug and one type of system. Just like all manufacturers now share their IC components with everyone else and so many electronic components are the same in all cars, the same will happen with EVs.

What one type will that be?

I don't know..I have no crystal ball just like no one else does here. There may end up being more than one or maybe they will all settle to make a universal standard. Who knows. But history has shown than most components in cars are sourced from a few core manufacturers..particularly components and systems which the automakers don't make themselves. Case in point, pretty much all HID lights used in cars these days are built by a handful of lighting manufacturers. The specs may be different depending on what car they end up going into but the core product is the same.

This is a forum where like minded people would like to come, learn about the product that the forum is concentrating on, and leave know more than less. But in the meantime, the bashing and silly names don't help. I'm sure you'd agree.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... until I finally figured out that you don't like the fact that GM decided to either create, co-create, author, design, develop, and/or adopt the J1772 SAE standard as a business strategy decision. If you can't get over this fact, perhaps you can go elsewhere to blog and leave us alone?

For all you folks who have their panties wound up a bit too tight, I'm not sure why you would pop into any thread that gets you so agitated.

But, be that as it may, clearly GM holds a soft spot in your thinking. You might have missed GM's efforts (still ongoing in Europe) to stop, ban, outlaw, etc, anything that wasn't their standard? That tends to not make friends with folks who are actually in the EV business for real.

 

[nozferatu]

Tony Frakenplug Williams and other CHAdeMO supporters need to get off the Spark Forum! Regardless of your justification, hatred is hatred. All you do on this sight is upset Spark EV advocates and cause problems that lead to EV doubt. Discussion of the Spark EV is what this forum is about. All U.S. and European manufacturers(except Tesla) have agreed to support the SAE Combo standard. Feel sure that more than one standard will be supported when warranted.

Well, you seem a little angry and upset, in addition to being a little fact challenged. As explained probably dozens of times, "all" U.S. and European manufacturers have NOT adopted the SAE standard. Only GM, Ford and all five German auto manufacturers.

Fiat, the majority owner of Chrysler (which is now a European headquartered company) is not on the list. Tesla, the largest EV manufacturer in the USA specifically does not use the SAE standard, nor will they ever. Actually, the famous quote from Tesla is that, "it sucks". Maybe you want to hate on them, too?

Here's the current list of ALL the world's auto manufactures that do NOT use either the German version or US specification "Combo" plug (minus the 7 mentioned above):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry

GM, Ford and 5 other German automakers...looks like a growing number to me.

As far as I know, Fiat uses the same plug as the Spark doesn't it? Maybe I'm mistaken.

As for Tesla...well...their arrogance will catch up with them sooner or later. It always has, does, and will...regardless of how successful they think they will become. As it stands...what Tesla does makes little to no difference to the average EV buyer. It's a toy and rich man's toy as far as I'm concerned. What those 7 combo plug users do makes far more difference to the average customer here.

When Tesla can come up with an appealing everyday EV that the majority of people can afford....and give it the range everyone is "astounded to see" with the Model S, then they can talk. Until then, loading up a massive, overweight car with lots of batteries and a huge motor and calling that an accomplishment at $120K per pop, doesn't seem so amazing to me frankly.

I don't think the big automakers can't do what Tesla has done and cheaper. I'm sure they can IMO. But they are thinking why when so many people are still buying their standard vehicles? They aren't committed to it...but not because they can't do it.

Your hate for GM's use of the SAE plug is as evident to everyone else here as your statement about others hating your use of the "frankenplug"...it goes both ways.

 

[nozferatu]

... until I finally figured out that you don't like the fact that GM decided to either create, co-create, author, design, develop, and/or adopt the J1772 SAE standard as a business strategy decision. If you can't get over this fact, perhaps you can go elsewhere to blog and leave us alone?

For all you folks who have their panties wound up a bit too tight, I'm not sure why you would pop into any thread that gets you so agitated.

But, be that as it may, clearly GM holds a soft spot in your thinking. You might have missed GM's efforts (still ongoing in Europe) to stop, ban, outlaw, etc, anything that wasn't their standard? That tends to not make friends with folks who are actually in the EV business for real.

Just curious...do you own a Spark EV?

 

[TonyWilliams]

... ALL manufacturers will adopt one type of plug and one type of system. Just like all manufacturers now share their IC components with everyone else and so many electronic components are the same in all cars, the same will happen with EVs.

What one type will that be?

I don't know..I have no crystal ball just like no one else does here. There may end up being more than one or maybe they will all settle to make a universal standard. Who knows. But history has shown than most components in cars are sourced from a few core manufacturers..particularly components and systems which the automakers don't make themselves. Case in point, pretty much all HID lights used in cars these days are built by a handful of lighting manufacturers. The specs may be different depending on what car they end up going into but the core product is the same.

Well, it's obvious that there will be at least 6 quick charge standards in the world, as there is now. The only one that has close to zero cars and zero chargers is frequently talked about here. All the others seem to be doing well. Here's some new from Tesla, where they already had a standard that is far in excess of what is capable with the SAE Combo, and yet they are cranking it up some more:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-cranks-superchargers-up-past-120-kw/

Here's one about CHAdeMO spreading fast:

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/chademo-spreading-fast-as-association-preaches-peaceful-coexistence/

Can you find anything like that for the SAE Combo standard?

This is a forum where like minded people would like to come, learn about the product that the forum is concentrating on, and leave know more than less. But in the meantime, the bashing and silly names don't help. I'm sure you'd agree.

Yes, plenty of personal attacks in this thread. Nutty in my book!!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

... until I finally figured out that you don't like the fact that GM decided to either create, co-create, author, design, develop, and/or adopt the J1772 SAE standard as a business strategy decision. If you can't get over this fact, perhaps you can go elsewhere to blog and leave us alone?

For all you folks who have their panties wound up a bit too tight, I'm not sure why you would pop into any thread that gets you so agitated.

But, be that as it may, clearly GM holds a soft spot in your thinking. You might have missed GM's efforts (still ongoing in Europe) to stop, ban, outlaw, etc, anything that wasn't their standard? That tends to not make friends with folks who are actually in the EV business for real.

Just curious...do you own a Spark EV?

No, I don't. I have owned 4 all-electric cars with about 70,000 miles of EV driving, and I likely won't ever buy another oil car.

Here's what I find as shortcomings of the Spark EV:

1) non compatible DC quick charger standard with what's actually installed in the world
2) too small for me (although I physically fit in it fine)
3) too slow onboard charger (my first two LEAF's were painful at 3.3kW)
4) compliance only effort by GM (however, the exact same is true of the two Toyota Rav4 EV's that I own)
5) No real affinity for GM after sucking up $50 billion in tax money
6) Even less affinity for GM after they tried to slow down EV infrastructure to suit their own wants

What I like about the Spark EV is it could be a damn good EV for the mass small car market with very little changes.

By the way, please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting only "owners" are worthy of posting here.

 

[nozferatu]

I don't know..I have no crystal ball just like no one else does here. There may end up being more than one or maybe they will all settle to make a universal standard. Who knows. But history has shown than most components in cars are sourced from a few core manufacturers..particularly components and systems which the automakers don't make themselves. Case in point, pretty much all HID lights used in cars these days are built by a handful of lighting manufacturers. The specs may be different depending on what car they end up going into but the core product is the same.

Well, it's obvious that there will be at least 6 quick charge standards in the world, as there is now. The only one that has close to zero cars and zero chargers is frequently talked about here. All the others seem to be doing well. Here's some new from Tesla, where they already had a standard that is far in excess of what is capable with the SAE Combo, and yet they are cranking it up some more:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-cranks-superchargers-up-past-120-kw/

Here's one about CHAdeMO spreading fast:

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/chademo-spreading-fast-as-association-preaches-peaceful-coexistence/

Can you find anything like that for the SAE Combo standard?

This is a forum where like minded people would like to come, learn about the product that the forum is concentrating on, and leave know more than less. But in the meantime, the bashing and silly names don't help. I'm sure you'd agree.

Yes, plenty of personal attacks in this thread. Nutty in my book!!![/quote]

The reason why these particular standards are doing well is because the cars are doing well. If the Leaf was a flop because it was too slow or too ugly or whatever, do you think people would care what standard plug it's using?

I don't get it...if someone was reading your comments, they would come off here thinking no one who owns a Volt or Spark or BMW i3, etc is able to charge their cars...you do realize that's what you are sounding like right?

So is it any wonder your comments get attacked? I honestly don't think you quite realize how negative and hostile you come across.

It's not for the love of GM products...I for one don't particularly like GM..never have..in part due to their two-facedness of trying to look green while selling their POS gas-guzzlers. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to slam a particular model or vehicle when it's doing a damned decent job of offering people an affordable EV option.

I honestly don't care what standard is adopted. So long as it works.

 

[nozferatu]

No, I don't. I have owned 4 all-electric cars with about 70,000 miles of EV driving, and I likely won't ever buy another oil car.

Here's what I find as shortcomings of the Spark EV:

1) non compatible DC quick charger standard with what's actually installed in the world
2) too small for me (although I physically fit in it fine)
3) too slow onboard charger (my first two LEAF's were painful at 3.3kW)
4) compliance only effort by GM (however, the exact same is true of the two Toyota Rav4 EV's that I own)
5) No real affinity for GM after sucking up $50 billion in tax money

What I like about the Spark EV is it could be a damn good EV for the mass small car market with very little changes.

By the way, please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting only "owners" are worthy of posting here.

1) why does that affect me currently residing in the States?
2) that's a personal choice
3) granted...that's something GM should have thought about but it's not a death sentence
4) most EV's are compliance efforts...so targeting the Spark EV is pointless...that just seems to be your pet peeve which no one is really interested in.
5) I agree...but that's a personal choice.

Every single auto manufacturer has their own agenda. Let's be clear on that. SAE J1772 international, as far as I can find...was a globally chosen consensus...not just by GM.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/pressRoom?OBJECT_TYPE=PressReleases&PAGE=showRelease&RELEASE_ID=1897

I didn't say only owners are worthy of posting here...I'm not an owner either. But I don't go about embarrassing myself by acting like I know it all and know what's best for everyone else.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't get it...if someone was reading your comments, they would come off here thinking no one who owns a Volt or Spark or BMW i3, etc is able to charge their cars...you do realize that's what you are sounding like right?

Correct. You likely won't be able to quick charge your Spark EV or BMW i3 with the SAE Combo charger unless you live within the range of the 5 or so public charge stations that exist in the entire USA. In contrast, all the following cars can quick charge at thousands of locations around the world:

Renault EV's, Nissan LEAF, Nissan e-NV200, Citroen C-Zero, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, Peugeot iON, Kia Soul EV, ZERO motorcycles, all Tesla (except Roadster)

So is it any wonder your comments get attacked? I honestly don't think you quite realize how negative and hostile you come across.

I've been commenting and moderating forums for decades, literally with the very first ones where we used our real names and stood behind what we said. That's why I still use my real name. The current crop of small anonymous dogs nipping at my heals is just the norm these days. Those attacks make them seem even smaller than they are. Also, I'm never running for a popularity contest, particularly if the facts lead elsewhere.

I'm going to slam a particular model or vehicle when it's doing a damned decent job of offering people an affordable EV option.

I've never slammed the Spark EV. Not once. The BMW i3, that's a different ball game ;-)

I honestly don't care what standard is adopted. So long as it works.

And I do.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I'm not an owner either. But I don't go about embarrassing myself by acting like I know it all and know what's best for everyone else.

I do know more than you about EV's. That's as much a fact as the GM and German car quick charge standard has about a dozen of their incompatible standard chargers installed worldwide. It's just a fact. It's also a fact that a German car can't plug into a US plug of the "Combo" standard.

I'm not embarrassed for stating facts ever, but I would be embarrassed if I were several of the posters up thread with their low brow personal attacks.