Leased a Spark EV with the SAE Combo charging port on 6 Jan

[TonyWilliams]

GM, Ford and 5 other German automakers...looks like a growing number to me.

No, it hasn't "grown" at all. Sorry. They aren't adding additional manufacturers, nor are they building but two cars in tiny numbers. There are a single digit number of charge stations in the US.

As far as I know, Fiat uses the same plug as the Spark doesn't it? Maybe I'm mistaken.

Yes, you are mistaken. Fiat and Spark, as does nearly every EV sold in the western world, share a J1772-2009 (Type 1 in Europe) AC charge port. What they don't share is the option to use the SAE Combo or German Menekkes based Combo charger port.

As for Tesla...well...their arrogance will catch up with them sooner or later. It always has, does, and will...regardless of how successful they think they will become. As it stands...what Tesla does makes little to no difference to the average EV buyer. It's a toy and rich man's toy as far as I'm concerned. What those 7 combo plug users do makes far more difference to the average customer here.

I think you're mistaken about Tesla. I find it arrogant that GM and German auto manufacturers could show up midstream and bully their way into attempting to stop other EV manufacturers, while simultaneously not building any EV in volume.

Tesla has two lower cost cars upcoming, Gen III Model E and a Gen IV even cheaper car. Those will appeal to the mass market and they will have a robust, worldwide charging network to plug into that is faster than anything that either CHAdeMO or SAE Combo can touch.

Your hate for GM's use of the SAE plug is as evident to everyone else here as your statement about others hating your use of the "frankenplug"...it goes both ways.

It's a free country (mostly); hate all you want !!!

 

[corwin]

You all may be interested to know that I quick charged my Spark today at the efacec charger in Belmont today. This charger has been non-op for a couple weeks and I just dropped by to see if it was up and I really didn't need a charge at all. But I plugged in and charged for about 3 minutes. I'll give it a real test on Saturday.

I did stop at the CCS charger on Saturday but it was non-op again. Luckily I was not dependent upon it. Today I checked it early to find it still non-op, but by noon it was working. Again I wasn't very low, but did charge from 55% to 80% in 6.5 mins. At the 80% point the charge process slowed, the same as my experience with CHAdeMO. Doing a bit of math, my estimate of 20% to 80% charging looks to be about 15.5 minutes. That is somewhat faster than what my Leaf can do. I'm guessing the car allows the batteries to charge faster than due to the different cell chemistry. GM engineers get to make that call, but the LiFePO4 cells in the Spark, do have higher charge/discharge capability than the LiMn2O4 cells used by Nissan.

So, to all of those out there wondering about CCS charging... yes it does work quite well with the Spark, assuming you have the port on your car.

 

[nozferatu]

No, it hasn't "grown" at all. Sorry. They aren't adding additional manufacturers, nor are they building but two cars in tiny numbers. There are a single digit number of charge stations in the US.

Perhaps it's not growing at a rate you like it to grow...but it will grow. Whether you like it or not.

Yes, you are mistaken. Fiat and Spark, as does nearly every EV sold in the western world, share a J1772-2009 (Type 1 in Europe) AC charge port. What they don't share is the option to use the SAE Combo or German Menekkes based Combo charger port.

The port is the same is it not? Fiat and Spark EV's can currently be plugged into the same EVSE can they not? What you don't mention or perhaps not even realize is that J1772 should be seen as a necessity as it opens up all the standard charging networks and home infrastructure native to North America.

I think you're mistaken about Tesla. I find it arrogant that GM and German auto manufacturers could show up midstream and bully their way into attempting to stop other EV manufacturers, while simultaneously not building any EV in volume.

Tesla has two lower cost cars upcoming, Gen III Model E and a Gen IV even cheaper car. Those will appeal to the mass market and they will have a robust, worldwide charging network to plug into that is faster than anything that either CHAdeMO or SAE Combo can touch.

You can think I'm mistaken but the arrogance can be dished out both ways. No one is trying to stop anyone in using a standard. That's rubbish and as much as GM is trying to adopt the SAE standard, Nissan is pushing for ChadeMO...how's that any different? You're cherry picking what you want and turning it into an issue. Not to mention it seems you'd prefer to kill all competition and monopolize CHaDeMO...now THAT will be very beneficial for consumers won't it.


We'll see about Tesla's cheaper cars and how well they do and what they are really are. As of right now that's vaporware. Until then, I'm not holding my breath...particularly when there are viable EV's already on the market. Not to mention Tesla going their own way as far as chargers go is the ultimate form of arrogance. Stick it to the average people hey?

It's a free country (mostly); hate all you want !!!

You mean YOU can hate all you want... Besides you and another fellow here, I don't see anyone else hating on the LEAF or ChadeMo, or whatever you hold dear...so I would safely say the hate is a one-way street here flowing from you. Your blind love for ChadeMO and Tesla and hatred for everyone else is quite amusing and irrational.

 

[nozferatu]

Correct. You likely won't be able to quick charge your Spark EV or BMW i3 with the SAE Combo charger unless you live within the range of the 5 or so public charge stations that exist in the entire USA. In contrast, all the following cars can quick charge at thousands of locations around the world:

No incorrect...because the actual owners of these cars aren't complaining...YOU are...and you don't even own one. So your complaints aren't even valid. You simply sound like people in the US can't charge their cars.

I've been commenting and moderating forums for decades, literally with the very first ones where we used our real names and stood behind what we said. That's why I still use my real name. The current crop of small anonymous dogs nipping at my heals is just the norm these days. Those attacks make them seem even smaller than they are. Also, I'm never running for a popularity contest, particularly if the facts lead elsewhere.

Who cares how long you've been moderating and commenting on forums...I'm telling you that you sound very negative. Perhaps you weren't this way before but you certainly are now. You aren't helping this community at all frankly even though you may think you are.

I've never slammed the Spark EV. Not once. The BMW i3, that's a different ball game ;-)

Of course you've slammed the Spark...that's all I've gotten from you...so what are you talking about? The i3 seems to be to far ahead of the game for you to appreciate it...some people just won't "get it"

And I do.

I guess then you have the same mentality as GM does...because they do to

 

[nozferatu]

I do know more than you about EV's. That's as much a fact as the GM and German car quick charge standard has about a dozen of their incompatible standard chargers installed worldwide. It's just a fact. It's also a fact that a German car can't plug into a US plug of the "Combo" standard.

I'm not embarrassed for stating facts ever, but I would be embarrassed if I were several of the posters up thread with their low brow personal attacks.

I'm afraid your arrogance has preceded you at this point. This isn't rocket science my friend...and no one is suffering from lack of chargers or charging as you would wish that were the case.

Perhaps if you had the humility to stop and ask actual Spark EV owners (on their own forums) about their charging experience instead of pretending you know what they are experiencing, that would be a great start for you. Spouting off Wikipedia and EV website facts doesn't impress.

 

[cwerdna]

Sigh... I spot a common pattern here. Some people don't like being told the truth and don't like the message re: J1772 CCS and they shoot the messengers, instead of the the players who started this mess in the first place.

And, we when supply relevant supporting information about the 3 DC FC standards, their backers, growth rate, vehicle count, etc. a bunch of folks here choose to ignore and incorrectly dismiss it as irrelevant.

Yes, you are mistaken. Fiat and Spark, as does nearly every EV sold in the western world, share a J1772-2009 (Type 1 in Europe) AC charge port. What they don't share is the option to use the SAE Combo or German Menekkes based Combo charger port.

The port is the same is it not? Fiat and Spark EV's can currently be plugged into the same EVSE can they not? What you don't mention or perhaps not even realize is that J1772 should be seen as a necessity as it opens up all the standard charging networks and home infrastructure native to North America.

Tony is correct.

You seem to be mixing up two things: J1772 L1 and L2 AC charging (in which you plug into an EVSE) for which every currently sold as new in the US highway legal EV and PHEV is compatible with and J1772 CCS for DC fast charging.

There are tens of thousands of J1772 L2 public AC EVSEs in the US and due to the above, the above EVs and PHEVs can utilize. There are also likely tens of thousands of L2 EVSEs installed in homes in the US.

nozferatu, what Tony is saying that the Fiat 500e has NO DC fast charge capability at all, be it via either J1772 CCS or anything else. For DC fast charging, the unit external to the car is actually a charger.

And, there are close to 0 operational publicly accessible J1772 CCS DC fast chargers in the US.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm afraid your arrogance has preceded you at this point. This isn't rocket science my friend...and no one is suffering from lack of chargers or charging as you would wish that were the case.

Perhaps if you had the humility to stop and ask actual Spark EV owners (on their own forums) about their charging experience instead of pretending you know what they are experiencing, that would be a great start for you. Spouting off Wikipedia and EV website facts doesn't impress.

You seem thoroughly confused, or you're acting like you are.

I don't think we ever said that DC fast charging was essential. I've used my CHAdeMO port on my Leaf exactly 1 time in the ~6 months and 6K miles I've had my Leaf. Heck, Tony now has TWO EVs (Rav4 EV) that have NO DC fast charging. He drove his 1st Rav4 EV from San Diego up all the way up north to the Canadian border so the could drive the other way back down in BC2BC 2013 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=207811).

We're trying to point educate people on the 3 incompatible DC FC standards and that if you choose a car w/J1772 CCS, your DC fast charge infrastructure will be EXTREMELY limited vs. the other 2 far more well supported standards being supported by far more serious EV players.

 

[nozferatu]

Sigh... I spot a common pattern here. Some people don't like being told the truth and don't like the message re: J1772 CCS and they shoot the messengers, instead of the the players who started this mess in the first place.

And, we when supply relevant supporting information about the 3 DC FC standards, their backers, growth rate, vehicle count, etc. a bunch of folks here choose to ignore and incorrectly dismiss it as irrelevant.

Yes, you are mistaken. Fiat and Spark, as does nearly every EV sold in the western world, share a J1772-2009 (Type 1 in Europe) AC charge port. What they don't share is the option to use the SAE Combo or German Menekkes based Combo charger port.

The port is the same is it not? Fiat and Spark EV's can currently be plugged into the same EVSE can they not? What you don't mention or perhaps not even realize is that J1772 should be seen as a necessity as it opens up all the standard charging networks and home infrastructure native to North America.

Tony is correct.

You seem to be mixing up two things: J1772 L1 and L2 AC charging (in which you plug into an EVSE) for which every currently sold as new in the US highway legal EV and PHEV is compatible with and J1772 CCS for DC fast charging.

There are tens of thousands of J1772 L2 public AC EVSEs in the US and due to the above, the above EVs and PHEVs can utilize. There are also likely tens of thousands of L2 EVSEs installed in homes in the US.

nozferatu, what Tony is saying that the Fiat 500e has NO DC fast charge capability at all, be it via either J1772 CCS or anything else. For DC fast charging, the unit external to the car is actually a charger.

And, there are close to 0 operational publicly accessible J1772 CCS DC fast chargers in the US.

No he's not correct because he's focusing on something that few others here are focusing on.

We know already that DC faster chargers are not here yet. .so there is no need to constantly repeat that ad-nauseaum. So no I'm not mixing that up...the problem is you two are concentrating on the fast charging issue when most people here seem not to be perturbed by it except you and TW.

I know the Fiat500E doesn't have fast charging capability...I'm not talking about fast charging. He is. He's obsessed with it.

Bottomline...are Spark EV drivers going to have problems charging their cars? Why don't you and TW ask the actual owners here how they are doing with their cars in terms of charging?

 

[nozferatu]

I'm afraid your arrogance has preceded you at this point. This isn't rocket science my friend...and no one is suffering from lack of chargers or charging as you would wish that were the case.

Perhaps if you had the humility to stop and ask actual Spark EV owners (on their own forums) about their charging experience instead of pretending you know what they are experiencing, that would be a great start for you. Spouting off Wikipedia and EV website facts doesn't impress.

You seem thoroughly confused, or you're acting like you are.

I don't think we ever said that DC fast charging was essential. I've used my CHAdeMO port on my Leaf exactly 1 time in the ~6 months and 6K miles I've had my Leaf. Heck, Tony now has TWO EVs (Rav4 EV) that have NO DC fast charging. He drove his 1st Rav4 EV from San Diego up all the way up north to the Canadian border so the could drive the other way back down in BC2BC 2013 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=207811).

We're trying to point educate people on the 3 incompatible DC FC standards and that if you choose a car w/J1772 CCS, your DC fast charge infrastructure will be EXTREMELY limited vs. the other 2 far more well supported standards being supported by far more serious EV players.

But you are essentially say that..because all you guys do is focus on the fact that other standards offer fast charging and SAE doesn't offer that anywhere in the US. You do understand that this is all you guys are focusing on.

If you're trying to educate people on the different standards then you are doing a terrible job of it.

I don't think you two have to terms with the fact that most people who drive the Spark EV or will be driving the BMW i3 (as another example) are doing fine and will be doing fine without fast charging and with the SAE plug. No one is complaining about the SAE plug except you and TW. Why are you guys complaining so much when it's not affecting people here?

 

[cwerdna]

You can think I'm mistaken but the arrogance can be dished out both ways. No one is trying to stop anyone in using a standard. That's rubbish and as much as GM is trying to adopt the SAE standard

I've posted about this previously such as at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4880#p4880 and http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4701#p4701.

From http://www.torquenews.com/1075/gm-and-nissan-trade-punches-over-electric-car-fast-charging

GM's Shad Balch, Manager of Environment & Energy Policy, let loose the opening salvo when naming off a series of priorities GM has that will aid electric vehicle adoption
...
Balch went on to describe the current situation as a "hodgepodge of fast charging standards" with Tesla having its own proprietary level 3 system, Nissan and Mitsubishi using CHADEMO. He noted that last week, at EVS26, an alliance of 8 automakers (including GM) announced support for a the "combo plug" designed by the SAE DC Fast Charging committee. He described this as "a new standard," one "that is going to come, probably before the end of this year," meaning the SAE committee is expected to approve the standard this summer, charging stations are expected to become available late in the year, and cars to become available in 2013.

The bombshell then landed when Balch said "we need to make sure, especially because we're talking about taxpayer money, that ONLY those standards are installed going forward." Meaning that because the SAE DC Fast Charge standard is the only "standardized" fast charging system, this is the system to endorse.

Oh yeah, and there was this noise in Europe that apparently failed: http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/13/eu-to-ban-chademo-ev-charger-by-2018/.

If you're trying to educate people on the different standards then you are doing a terrible job of it.

Really? So, you're doing a better job by ignoring all facts presented?

Please refer to http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5477#p5477 and http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3593&p=5470#p5470 for why anyone buying or leasing an EV/PHEV where they know/believe DC fast charging is important for their use cases needs to be educated on the facts we've outlined over and over regarding the 3 incompatible DC fast charging standards.

I don't think you two have to terms with the fact that most people who drive the Spark EV or will be driving the BMW i3 (as another example) are doing fine and will be doing fine without fast charging

I didn't say it was essential. It certainly hasn't been essential for me nor Tony's BC2BC 2013 drive w/his Rav4 EV.

 

[nozferatu]

You can think I'm mistaken but the arrogance can be dished out both ways. No one is trying to stop anyone in using a standard. That's rubbish and as much as GM is trying to adopt the SAE standard

I've posted about this previously such as at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4880#p4880.

From http://www.torquenews.com/1075/gm-and-nissan-trade-punches-over-electric-car-fast-charging

GM's Shad Balch, Manager of Environment & Energy Policy, let loose the opening salvo when naming off a series of priorities GM has that will aid electric vehicle adoption
...
Balch went on to describe the current situation as a "hodgepodge of fast charging standards" with Tesla having its own proprietary level 3 system, Nissan and Mitsubishi using CHADEMO. He noted that last week, at EVS26, an alliance of 8 automakers (including GM) announced support for a the "combo plug" designed by the SAE DC Fast Charging committee. He described this as "a new standard," one "that is going to come, probably before the end of this year," meaning the SAE committee is expected to approve the standard this summer, charging stations are expected to become available late in the year, and cars to become available in 2013.

The bombshell then landed when Balch said "we need to make sure, especially because we're talking about taxpayer money, that ONLY those standards are installed going forward." Meaning that because the SAE DC Fast Charge standard is the only "standardized" fast charging system, this is the system to endorse.

Yes but so what? Every car manufacturer has this rhetoric and Nissan and Mitsubishi are both very outspoken against the SAE standard. So if you don't like what GM has to say about other standards don't get a GM product.

Oh yeah, and there was this noise in Europe that apparently failed: http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/13/eu-to-ban-chademo-ev-charger-by-2018/.

Boy are you hung up on this...lol...it's funny.

Really? So, you're doing a better job by ignoring all facts presented?

Yes really...what facts are you constantly harking about that Spark EV owners find useful or affect them? That's why you don't seem to understand.

Please refer to http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5477#p5477 and http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3593&p=5470#p5470 for why anyone buying or leasing an EV/PHEV where they know/believe DC fast charging is important for their use cases needs to be educated on the facts we've outlined over and over regarding the 3 incompatible DC fast charging standards.

AGAIN with your fast charging nonsense.

Please ask the owners here about their charging issues and needs before you claim they have an issue and it's all doom and gloom for them. Why do you insist on creating these issues for owners who don't have issues?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Thanks for misquoting me. :roll:

You seem to like spewing a lot of misinformation and then ignore facts that refute them.

 

[nozferatu]

^^^
Thanks for misquoting me. :roll:

You seem to like spewing a lot of misinformation and then ignore facts that refute them.

I'm not misquoting you...I'm repeating what you said.

Serious dude...ask Spark EV owners here instead of pretending you know best.

You and TW show disdain and hatred for the SAE standard....that much is clear. For the life of me I have no idea why you are both so angry and pissed off about it.

What I don't understand is your mentality....just because Nissan is selling more EV's than everyone else and is using a certain charging standard, why should others have to follow and use what Nissan and the Japanese use? Since when has it been that way in anything for it to apply to this case in EV's?

Do you also complain about these things when it comes to cell phone charging? Or other types of incompatible electronics?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
You wrote your own replies within the block that's attributed to me (e.g. "Boy are you hung up on this...lol...it's funny.")

What I don't understand is your mentality....just because Nissan is selling more EV's than everyone else and is using a certain charging standard, why should others have to follow and use what Nissan and the Japanese use? Since when has it been that way in anything for it to apply to this case in EV's?

Others don't have to follow.

Tesla's going one way and having massive growth in their infrastructure and vehicles w/a VERY good proprietary "standard". Oh, and they're releasing a CHAdeMO adapter for their vehicles, as well.

Then, there's this other moribund standard the BMW and a bunch of players who aren't serious about DC fast charging EVs/PHEVs are peddling, apparently in an attempt to slow down Nissan. Unfortunately, this isn't helping the EV cause either.

Do you also complain about these things when it comes to cell phone charging? Or other types of incompatible electronics?

Nope. But compared to cars, cell phones are cheap, as are USB AC adapters, Lightning cables, micro USB cables, etc.

If DC fast chargers for EVs and adapters to go between DC fast charge standards were as cheap as the above, this would be a non-issue.

And, when it comes to cell phone charging, the different connector standards aren't slowing down cell phone adoption.

 

[nozferatu]

Tesla is successful because it only focuses on guess what..Teslas. And it charges and arm and leg to do so. Just like what Apple does. And once again, Teslas are out of reach for most people...so who cares.

It's all in your head that these other companies are "slowing down" Nissan. I don't understand why you think everyone should conform to Nissan's standards but when someone brings up a standard that BMW or GM are "peddling" that's bad? Nissan trying to monopolize the EV standards isn't good either...competition is healthy. It's WAY too early in the game for you to think one has won over the other.

You continuous mention of Fast DC charging is pointless. Most people here aren't too flustered by it and while it would be nice to have and be able to use, I doubt most Spark EV owners are having the problems you seem to constantly think they are having.

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla is successful because it only focuses on guess what..Teslas. And it charges and arm and leg to do so. Just like what Apple does. And once again, Teslas are out of reach for most people...so who cares.

They plan to ship vehicles that are not out of reach. At least, they've announced plans for that (e.g. Model E).

It's all in your head that these other companies are "slowing down" Nissan. I don't understand why you think everyone should conform to Nissan's standards but when someone brings up a standard that BMW or GM are "peddling" that's bad? Nissan trying to monopolize the EV standards isn't good either...competition is healthy. It's WAY too early in the game for you to think one has won over the other.

My head? They're not really doing a good job of slowing down Nissan at all w/this standard. They've tried and failed so far w/this standard that's not needed. See http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5365#p5365 for possible motivations.

You continuous mention of Fast DC charging is pointless. Most people here aren't too flustered by it and while it would be nice to have and be able to use, I doubt most Spark EV owners are having the problems you seem to constantly think they are having.

Really? Judging by http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics and the replies and views, DC FC seems to be a pretty hot topic here.

There you go projecting your thoughts onto other people. I didn't say anything about Spark EV owners constantly having these problems, or whatever. Virtually all the Spark EVs sold don't even have any DC FC capability.

It will be interesting when we start hearing more stories of people buying/leasing J1772 CCS cars based upon misinformation from dealers, salesman, etc. about the availability and ubiquity of compatible infrastructure, then wondering "why can't I charge at ____, ____ and ___? Why won't it fit?" For some, the light bulb will eventually go on/off in their head.

WHY WONT IT FIT!?!?! was posted recently. I think it might've originally come from TeslaMotorsClub.com.

 

[gatedad]

Noz: I think that the inability to Quick Charge your Spark EV will be a bigger issue for many drivers than you realize now. This is a really nice little car, and in many ways GM has done a great job with it. However, there are times when a driver will want to go farther than the 80+ mile range of the car. When that happens it will be a matter of pulling into a Level II station and gaining 10 miles per hour. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a huge difference between 10 miles in 1 hour versus 80+ miles in that same hour. Believe me, I am driving a Mitsubishi I-MiEV, similar size car, very fun to drive. But I want to be ale to take it more than just to work and back. I don't have Level II at home, and no Level II at work, so the fact is that I am limited compared to those Mitsu's with QC. If you don't have a need for it, that's absolutely great, and I sincerley wish you the best. But I believe that you will be in the minority, being able to double your car's range is a real useful feature... Lou

 

[nozferatu]

They plan to ship vehicles that are not out of reach. At least, they've announced plans for that (e.g. Model E).

Plans and reality are two different things. Tesla a few years back was literally running out of money.

My head? They're not really doing a good job of slowing down Nissan at all w/this standard. They've tried and failed so far w/this standard that's not needed. See http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5365#p5365 for possible motivations.

It's a matter of options...not slowing others down. People want options...not everyone wants an Iphone or Ipad...do you understand that?

Really? Judging by http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics and the replies and views, DC FC seems to be a pretty hot topic here.

There you go projecting your thoughts onto other people. I didn't say anything about Spark EV owners constantly having these problems, or whatever. Virtually all the Spark EVs sold don't even have any DC FC capability.

Is it causing problems for Spark EV drivers? Your comments are implying it so why are you being coy?

It will be interesting when we start hearing more stories of people buying/leasing J1772 CCS cars based upon misinformation from dealers, salesman, etc. about the availability and ubiquity of compatible infrastructure, then wondering "why can't I charge at ____, ____ and ___? Why won't it fit?" For some, the light bulb will eventually go on/off in their head.

WHY WONT IT FIT!?!?! was posted recently. I think it might've originally come from TeslaMotorsClub.com.

[/quote]

You assume the charging stations and options won't change over time. You know what happens when one assumes...

 

[nozferatu]

Noz: I think that the inability to Quick Charge your Spark EV will be a bigger issue for many drivers than you realize now. This is a really nice little car, and in many ways GM has done a great job with it. However, there are times when a driver will want to go farther than the 80+ mile range of the car. When that happens it will be a matter of pulling into a Level II station and gaining 10 miles per hour. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a huge difference between 10 miles in 1 hour versus 80+ miles in that same hour. Believe me, I am driving a Mitsubishi I-MiEV, similar size car, very fun to drive. But I want to be ale to take it more than just to work and back. I don't have Level II at home, and no Level II at work, so the fact is that I am limited compared to those Mitsu's with QC. If you don't have a need for it, that's absolutely great, and I sincerley wish you the best. But I believe that you will be in the minority, being able to double your car's range is a real useful feature... Lou

I respect that and agree with you on many points. But I would assume when someone buys a Spark EV, they know what they are getting themselves into. What the others are saying...and I know they claim they are not..is that you buy a Spark EV and are tricked into thinking it's a Tesla.

Another thing a few people here are assuming is that charging options are going to remain the same and other types of charging systems won't grow. How wrong can they be. Just look at other forms of technology that end up competing with each other and growth is done on both sides. Things will improve and change and morph over time.

I personally think much of the negativity coming from others is purely due to the distaste for one brand over another. It's not productive, it's not positive, and it surely doesn't help people in this forum that much I can say.

 

[gra]

Noz: I think that the inability to Quick Charge your Spark EV will be a bigger issue for many drivers than you realize now. This is a really nice little car, and in many ways GM has done a great job with it. However, there are times when a driver will want to go farther than the 80+ mile range of the car. When that happens it will be a matter of pulling into a Level II station and gaining 10 miles per hour. Nothing wrong with that, but there is a huge difference between 10 miles in 1 hour versus 80+ miles in that same hour. Believe me, I am driving a Mitsubishi I-MiEV, similar size car, very fun to drive. But I want to be ale to take it more than just to work and back. I don't have Level II at home, and no Level II at work, so the fact is that I am limited compared to those Mitsu's with QC. If you don't have a need for it, that's absolutely great, and I sincerley wish you the best. But I believe that you will be in the minority, being able to double your car's range is a real useful feature... Lou

I respect that and agree with you on many points. But I would assume when someone buys a Spark EV, they know what they are getting themselves into. What the others are saying...and I know they claim they are not..is that you buy a Spark EV and are tricked into thinking it's a Tesla.

Another thing a few people here are assuming is that charging options are going to remain the same and other types of charging systems won't grow. How wrong can they be. Just look at other forms of technology that end up competing with each other and growth is done on both sides. Things will improve and change and morph over time.

I personally think much of the negativity coming from others is purely due to the distaste for one brand over another. It's not productive, it's not positive, and it surely doesn't help people in this forum that much I can say.

While I agree that the constant disparagement of CCS isn't useful, it's also a fact that some owners have been given incorrect info by dealers as to first the availability of CCS on their cars, and also the ability to use it on CHAdeMO chargers. Both Tony and I started posting here (not specifically in this topic) to provide correct info to actual and potential customers, because what they were getting from clueless and/or mendacious salespeople was wrong. That is a very valid reason to provide info re the different standards, and led at least one customer to return his car to the dealer.

Where I feel that Tony's and cwerdna's approach crosses the line is in their attitude of constant disparagement towards CCS. Everything they say about the limited # of CCS chargers could have been said about CHAdeMO and Tesla's superchargers. It remains to be seen whether SAE will grow significantly outside of California.

As for GM trying to hold back CHAdeMO deployment by introducing a different standard, well sure, they did. Of course, we know that Tepco, the people who are largely responsible for CHAdeMO, would never let commercial considerations and profit outweigh doing what's best for their customers or the general public; just ask the people of Fukushima for confirmation. No sir, they're all about public service.

What I really don't get is that all the vitriol is aimed at CCS, and none is aimed at Tesla, who have done far more to show how unnnecessary the separate CHAdeMO connector is for DC, and whose Supercharger network is not only faster but also far more reliable and better positioned, at least in the U.S. Regardless of whether GM and European automakers have tried to retard CHAdeMO growth, they haven't done so. How could they, when they didn't have any cars or chargers in service until very recently? What has retarded CHAdeMO deployment, in the U.S. at least, is the lack of a profit-making business model - only Tesla has got one of those.

People considering a Spark or any other car that uses CCS certainly should be aware of the current limited deployment and lack of inter-operability of CCS with CHAdeMO or Tesla chargers, so they can take that into consideration. Just as they should be aware of the deployment, inter-operability and other issues (like reliability) for the other standards when deciding which car to get. But the constant repetition of the number of chargers of this or that type deployed in Europe or Japan to 'prove' that they are the standard is irrelevant to most people in this forum, who are in the U.S. and couldn't give a flying fuck, because they have never and likely will never ship their EV to another continent. There are at least six QC 'standards' out there; do I care which one China, the world's largest car market, uses? Unless I plan to send my car there, no. The manufacturers can install whichever quick charge standard they feel is most appropriate to any country or region; their customers will decide if they've made the right choice.