Leased a Spark EV with the SAE Combo charging port on 6 Jan

[nozferatu]

While I agree that the constant disparagement of CCS isn't useful, it's also a fact that some owners have been given incorrect info by dealers as to first the availability of CCS on their cars, and also the ability to use it on CHAdeMO chargers. Both Tony and I started posting here (not specifically in this topic) to provide correct info to actual and potential customers, because what they were getting from clueless and/or mendacious salespeople was wrong. That is a very valid reason to provide info re the different standards, and led at least one customer to return his car to the dealer.

I grant you that educating oneself is paramount and I agree with you wholeheartedly about that for sure. However, come on Gra...you are stating something that is an age old problem with dealerships...incorrect information, uneducated dealers and salesmen, sneaky sales tactics to get you to buy something you don't need. This isn't just an EV problem...it's a dealer problem across the board.

Where I feel that Tony's and cwerdna's approach crosses the line is in their attitude of constant disparagement towards CCS. Everything they say about the limited # of CCS chargers could have been said about CHAdeMO and Tesla's superchargers. It remains to be seen whether SAE will grow significantly outside of California.

Exactly and well said. That's my point. They are clearly biased and have a personal problem with CCS and it's getting very old...even for a newcomer like me.

As for GM trying to hold back CHAdeMO deployment by introducing a different standard, well sure, they did. Of course, we know that Tepco, the people who are largely responsible for CHAdeMO, would never let commercial considerations and profit outweigh doing what's best for their customers or the general public; just ask the people of Fukushima for confirmation. No sir, they're all about public service.

LOL...right again. That's exactly my point. These two have vitriol hate for CCS and GM yet have their eyes closed towards the organizations pushing for their own agendas and standards. Hypocritical and myopic.

What I really don't get is that all the vitriol is aimed at CCS, and none is aimed at Tesla, who have done far more to show how unnnecessary the separate CHAdeMO connector is for DC, and whose Supercharger network is not only faster but also far more reliable and better positioned, at least in the U.S. Regardless of whether GM and European automakers have tried to retard CHAdeMO growth, they haven't done so. How could they, when they didn't have any cars or chargers in service until very recently? What has retarded CHAdeMO deployment, in the U.S. at least, is the lack of a profit-making business model - only Tesla has got one of those.

Correct. And to add to the "I don't get it" part, they continuously hark on about how Tesla and CHAdeMO will be the only ones around when reality other options arise.

People considering a Spark or any other car that uses CCS certainly should be aware of the current limited deployment and lack of inter-operability of CCS with CHAdeMO or Tesla chargers, so they can take that into consideration. Just as they should be aware of the deployment, inter-operability and other issues (like reliability) for the other standards when deciding which car to get. But the constant repetition of the number of chargers of this or that type deployed in Europe or Japan to 'prove' that they are the standard is irrelevant to most people in this forum, who are in the U.S. and couldn't give a flying fuck, because they have never and likely will never ship their EV to another continent. There are at least six QC 'standards' out there; do I care which one China, the world's largest car market, uses? Unless I plan to send my car there, no. The manufacturers can install whichever quick charge standard they feel is most appropriate to any country or region; their customers will decide if they've made the right choice.

I agree...they should educate themselves and realize what the limitations are. However, I personally believe paying that extra $750 for the fast charging option is a small price to pay for the eventuality of having such EVSE's around in the future.

And frankly, the automakers work in a way that if indeed China's standard explodes and forces others to take note, then things will change and systems will adjust. TW and cdwerna think everything is set in stone. They worry too much about crap that hasn't happened yet.

 

[gra]

While I agree that the constant disparagement of CCS isn't useful, it's also a fact that some owners have been given incorrect info by dealers as to first the availability of CCS on their cars, and also the ability to use it on CHAdeMO chargers. Both Tony and I started posting here (not specifically in this topic) to provide correct info to actual and potential customers, because what they were getting from clueless and/or mendacious salespeople was wrong. That is a very valid reason to provide info re the different standards, and led at least one customer to return his car to the dealer.

I grant you that educating oneself is paramount and I agree with you wholeheartedly about that for sure. However, come on Gra...you are stating something that is an age old problem with dealerships...incorrect information, uneducated dealers and salesmen, sneaky sales tactics to get you to buy something you don't need. This isn't just an EV problem...it's a dealer problem across the board.

Yes, but the difference is that most customers don't have 100 years of experience with BEVs to help them filter the bad info - even well-meaning salespeople are typically as clueless as the customers. See this topic:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3457

And the problem extends well beyond the dealers; many of the manufacturers either don't know or have withheld important and even critical info that is necessary for early-adopters - Nissan has been particularly bad in this regard. Most of the high-quality info has come from owners and enthusiasts who post on groups like this one. IME MNL and TMC are the most in-depth and technical, both because they have the largest owner base, and because they were largely first in the field, so snagged a lot of the more technically-oriented early adopters. gm-volt.com is also good, but suffers a bit from its often heavy-handed moderation, which tends to make the discussion somewhat one-sided; any posts perceived as less than positive tend to get removed or blocked.

 

[nozferatu]

While I agree that the constant disparagement of CCS isn't useful, it's also a fact that some owners have been given incorrect info by dealers as to first the availability of CCS on their cars, and also the ability to use it on CHAdeMO chargers. Both Tony and I started posting here (not specifically in this topic) to provide correct info to actual and potential customers, because what they were getting from clueless and/or mendacious salespeople was wrong. That is a very valid reason to provide info re the different standards, and led at least one customer to return his car to the dealer.

I grant you that educating oneself is paramount and I agree with you wholeheartedly about that for sure. However, come on Gra...you are stating something that is an age old problem with dealerships...incorrect information, uneducated dealers and salesmen, sneaky sales tactics to get you to buy something you don't need. This isn't just an EV problem...it's a dealer problem across the board.

Yes, but the difference is that most customers don't have 100 years of experience with BEVs to help them filter the bad info - even well-meaning salespeople are typically as clueless as the customers. See this topic:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3457

And the problem extends well beyond the dealers; many of the manufacturers either don't know or have withheld important and even critical info that is necessary for early-adopters - Nissan has been particularly bad in this regard. Most of the high-quality info has come from owners and enthusiasts who post on groups like this one. IME MNL and TMC are the most in-depth and technical, both because they have the largest owner base, and because they were largely first in the field, so snagged a lot of the more technically-oriented early adopters. gm-volt.com is also good, but suffers a bit from its often heavy-handed moderation, which tends to make the discussion somewhat one-sided; any posts perceived as less than positive tend to get removed or blocked.

I can't disagree with you. It's just that, as you said, the way certain people have been going about doing it here.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... many of the manufacturers either don't know or have withheld important and even critical info that is necessary for early-adopters - Nissan has been particularly bad in this regard. Most of the high-quality info has come from owners and enthusiasts who post on groups like this one.

Any idea of somebody very critical of Nissan? The answer might surprise the noisy uninformed.

As for some of the hate cast my way, I look at it like grade school girls having a hair pulling fight with themselves. It's not even interesting to watch.

It's inevitable that folks would get their panties wound up when they think their "prize" thing is being attacked. I get it.

Hopefully, the illustrious GM or BMW will blanket the world with Frankenplugs, and then some folks here can say, "I told you so". Until that day, buying any car outside of California with the GM / German specification plug is a long shot. Within California, you have the very high likelihood that you will get 200 Frankenplig stations in 4 years in 4 major metro areas.

Just facts, folks.

 

[nozferatu]

... many of the manufacturers either don't know or have withheld important and even critical info that is necessary for early-adopters - Nissan has been particularly bad in this regard. Most of the high-quality info has come from owners and enthusiasts who post on groups like this one.

Any idea of somebody very critical of Nissan? The answer might surprise the noisy uninformed.

As for some of the hate cast my way, I look at it like grade school girls having a hair pulling fight with themselves. It's not even interesting to watch.

It's inevitable that folks would get their panties wound up when they think their "prize" thing is being attacked. I get it.

Hopefully, the illustrious GM or BMW will blanket the world with Frankenplugs, and then some folks here can say, "I told you so". Until that day, buying any car outside of California with the GM / German specification plug is a long shot. Within California, you have the very high likelihood that you will get 200 Frankenplig stations in 4 years in 4 major metro areas.

Just facts, folks.

LOL..I have to say TW...it is quite amusing reading your immature rants.

So let me get this straight...the world being blanketed by CHAdeMO is OK with you because YOU like it but the world blanketed by SAE plugs is wrong. Ok..gotcha.

I'm glad you have a crystal ball and know how many plugs will be where. That sounds like facts to me!

 

[TonyWilliams]

LOL..I have to say TW...it is quite amusing reading your immature rants.

So let me get this straight...the world being blanketed by CHAdeMO is OK with you because YOU like it but the world blanketed by SAE plugs is wrong. Ok..gotcha.

I'm glad you have a crystal ball and know how many plugs will be where. That sounds like facts to me!

You are a tool, eh? Fortunately, I've got the answers for you.

The world is blanketed with CHAdeMO, and right behind it Tesla Suoerchargers. Frankenplug, functionally zero. Fact.

I actually don't "like" CHAdeMO; it's a compromised device that is made in group-think committees at very large corporations. The Tesla plug is by far the best design so far, particularly for user interface. Frankenplug, eh, not in the running. If there was ubiquitous three phase AC power in the US, I'd say Chameleon was pretty darn good.

My chrystal ball has been pretty good; I predicted you'd be a fact challenged lap dog nipping at my heels, yapping loudly. I was right again !!!

 

[nozferatu]

LOL..I have to say TW...it is quite amusing reading your immature rants.

So let me get this straight...the world being blanketed by CHAdeMO is OK with you because YOU like it but the world blanketed by SAE plugs is wrong. Ok..gotcha.

I'm glad you have a crystal ball and know how many plugs will be where. That sounds like facts to me!

You are a tool, eh? Fortunately, I've got the answers for you.

The world is blanketed with CHAdeMO, and right behind it Tesla Suoerchargers. Frankenplug, functionally zero. Fact.

I actually don't "like" CHAdeMO; it's a compromised device that is made in group-think committees at very large corporations. The Tesla plug is by far the best design so far, particularly for user interface. Frankenplug, eh, not in the running. If there was ubiquitous three phase AC power in the US, I'd say Chameleon was pretty darn good.

My chrystal ball has been pretty good; I predicted you'd be a fact challenged lap dog nipping at my heels, yapping loudly. I was right again !!!

Looks like you got flustered a bit there TW....lot's of typos..not your style.

Again, why you are here bashing people and the products they buy is beyond me. Your negativity and constant whining and criticisms are incredibly counterproductive and as many have pointed out, just pushing people away.

I don't see anyone having problems charging their cars here...

Not sure what you're right about....so I'll just chalk up your lame attitude as simply being an arrogant troll.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not sure what you're right about....so I'll just chalk up your lame attitude as simply being an arrogant troll.

I'm fully confident you're not sure about a lot of things; that's obvious. I guess your diatribes are not needed any further, since you've successfully found the answer that works for you. Case closed, thankfully.

And, no, there aren't any typo's in my previous post. But, then facts aren't your strong point.

 

[nozferatu]

Not sure what you're right about....so I'll just chalk up your lame attitude as simply being an arrogant troll.

I'm fully confident you're not sure about a lot of things; that's obvious. I guess your diatribes are not needed any further, since you've successfully found the answer that works for you. Case closed, thankfully.

And, no, there aren't any typo's in my previous post. But, then facts aren't your strong point.

Yes case closed...but I do believe most people are probably sick and tired of your negativity and whining. They are here to talk about their cars and enjoy them..not listen to you telling them they've made a mistake, how inferior their choice is, how they are screwed..blah blah blah...

And yes..you have plenty of typos....but you'd need to know how to spell to realize it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not sure what you're right about....so I'll just chalk up your lame attitude as simply being an arrogant troll.

I'm fully confident you're not sure about a lot of things; that's obvious. I guess your diatribes are not needed any further, since you've successfully found the answer that works for you. Case closed, thankfully.

And, no, there aren't any typo's in my previous post. But, then facts aren't your strong point.

Yes case closed...but I do believe most people are probably sick and tired of your negativity and whining. They are here to talk about their cars and enjoy them..not listen to you telling them they've made a mistake, how inferior their choice is, how they are screwed..blah blah blah...

And yes..you have plenty of typos....but you'd need to know how to spell to realize it.

Well, why don't you go back up to that post and find a single one, Genius. I'll be waiting.

No Spark EV owner "is screwed" because they bought this car if they first knew the implications of buying a limited range car with a 3.3kW onboard charger and either no DC charge port or with a DC charge port that has almost zero operational public charge stations.

You're batting zero, as expected, but I'll be looking forward for you to find which word or words that you think I misspelled. When you don't find any, I think that says enough for me to know that no amount of discourse with you will produce positive results.

 

[NomadMac]

chrystal
typo's

God, this is getting dreary.

 

[gambit]

I find the combative-style of discourse to be unproductive as a means to exchange information, ideas and opinions.

Let me be one to apologize to the CHADEMO zealots that I selected the compliance-only, 3.3 kW limited on board charging, GM-designed, Korean-manufactured, and Chevy-badged Spark EV (proudly without the optional DC FC option).

I'm sorry that GM is trying to usurp the CHADEMO infrastructure and imperils wider consumer selection of (non-freakinplug) FC-equipped EV's and will potentially cause so much consumer confusion that industry evolution to EV's will be slowed and even possibly eliminated.

I'm sorry that I really, really enjoy driving my Spark EV - especially during stop-and-go rush hour. I'm sorry that I like to see the regenerative braking (or is it breaking?) cause my range to go up from 49 to 50, 51, 52 as I drive my 26.8 miles from my work to my home.

I'm sorry that I enjoy the instant torque and acceleration of my compliance-only Chevy Spark EV. I'm sorry that I like the quirky infotainment system that I don't know how to use (my kids set it up for me and they're trying to teach me).

I'm sorry that this is the perfect car that suits my needs, and I'm sorry that I have been very successful in planning my trips to and from work, and that I can use the EVSE (not charger!) at my workplace on those days when I have to drive from LAX to Irvine to attend meetings.

I hope that you will find some small amount of joy that I don't like the noisy cabin, the torque-steering under heavy acceleration, the climate control system that I won't use because I don't want to reduce my driving range, and that I don't love the cheesy interior materials.

I hope you will have peace and glee to know that I have Nissan-Leaf-envy, and that I wish I could drive to the local Mitsubishi corporate HQ and actually use the publicly accessible CHADEMO EVSE (not charger!) that my friends with MiEV's and Leafs (or is it 'Leaves'?) get to use for 20-30 minutes at a time to charge up their cars. I'm envious that all I have is a L2 EVSE (not charger!) at home that requires 4-8 hours to fully charge my lowly Chevy Spark EV with the inadequate 3.3 kW on-board charger (not EVSE!). My what I loser I am!

I'll go away now and I may occasionally monitor this site, hoping for the day when all of you CHADEMO zealots are made right and the only infrastructure in place for charging EV's is the CHADEMO standard (kinda like Betamax vs VHS, Blu Ray vs HD DVD).

- signing off, gambit.

 

[NomadMac]

Brilliant.

 

[Oberon]

I'm sorry that I enjoy the instant torque and acceleration of my compliance-only Chevy Spark EV. I'm sorry that I like the quirky infotainment system that I don't know how to use (my kids set it up for me and they're trying to teach me).

I'm sorry that this is the perfect car that suits my needs...

This!

I agree with all the rest too, except I'm not sorry about my Spark EV at all. I'm delighted!

As for "compliance car" and GM is not "sincere about EV's", I'm long past forming emotional attachments to or expecting decent or even sensible behavior from corporations. So if they can't see the opportunity in EVs and want to have yet another stupid standards war, that is unfortunate. Still if they want to sell me a pretty awesome electric car below cost, and multiple levels of government want to pay me to do the right thing, I'd be a fool not to take their money.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... So if they can't see the opportunity in EVs and want to have yet another stupid standards war, that is unfortunate. Still if they want to sell me a pretty awesome electric car below cost, and multiple levels of government want to pay me to do the right thing, I'd be a fool not to take their money.

Let's be clear that the charging standard selected by an auto manufacturer does NOT correlate to their love of EV's.

Toyota and Honda are founding members of CHAdeMO, yet neither of their CARB-ZEV compliance cars use that charge port in the US. Toyota is openly hostile toward battery electric cars, and will discontinue the Rav4 EV this year in favor of a government subsidized hydrogen car for compliance.

GM is one small step above those two. But, make no mistake; they will build "real" EV's with a profit motive if they truly believed that it were possible. They don't.

It is a rare man like Elon Musk (Tesla) and Carlos Ghosn (Nissan/Renault) who have the vision AND courage to launch serious effort EV's and ensure that there is a place to charge it quickly. It came at great risk to both.

So, for the folks buying the Spark EV, enjoy! Like my now two Toyota Rav4 EV's, enjoy it and know that you spending that money:

1) didn't convince them that EV's are good

2) didn't make them any money

3) won't help DC quick charging infrastructure by any measure

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I hope you will have peace and glee to know that I have Nissan-Leaf-envy, and that I wish I could drive to the local Mitsubishi corporate HQ and actually use the publicly accessible CHADEMO EVSE (not charger!)

Uh... that is actually a charger! I really dislike the goofy acronyms for public consumption, and prefer just "charge station".

John Q. Public won't care what the acronyms are.