Why is Spark EV sales so poor?

[Sesamecrunch]

Here's the latest EV sales numbers: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094705_plug-in-electric-car-sales-in-sept-leaf-up-again-volt-down/page-2

Spark EV just sold 51 units in September. It appears to be plummeting.

I'm sorry to see this well designed car lose momentum in the marketplace. It is such great value. I was hoping to buy another one after my lease runs out.

Why do you think the Spark EV is not selling well? I see two deficiencies - size of the car and the 3.3kw charger, as the only negatives. What's your theory?

 

[tigger19687]

Maybe because it is only sold in CA and OR ?

I'm gonna get one shipped to Mass.

 

[gra]

Maybe because it is only sold in CA and OR ?

I'm gonna get one shipped to Mass.

Ar least in the Bay Area, there's a complete lack of advertising for it. The Fiat 500e, which is advertised on the local PBS station (and which is better looking with snazzier color options including orange/white and black with orange accents), was the fourth most common PEV I saw last month (19 seen), after the LEAF (65), PiP (57) and Volt (49); in contrast I saw a single Spark EV plus possibly a couple of others (unconfirmed so not included).

Now that eVgo is finally starting to retrofit their Freedom stations with CCS and install it ab initio on the new ones, hopefully we'll see a bump, but not if no one knows about the car. It appears that the only advertising for it is going to be word of mouth.

 

[SteveC5088]

It is mostly the complete lack of advertising. Over a year ago, Volt sales were better than the Leaf. But then GM stopped all advertising while others continued or increased theirs. Sales numbers and ratios have followed.

 

[Jeeman0]

From what I see, Nissan is the only one that is heavily advertising their EV. When I tell people about the Spark EV, every single person has not heard of it. Sales are poor because nobody knows it exists (in my opinion).

 

[cwerdna]

Here's the latest EV sales numbers: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094705_plug-in-electric-car-sales-in-sept-leaf-up-again-volt-down/page-2

Spark EV just sold 51 units in September. It appears to be plummeting.

One can see a complete sales table at http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/.

 

[tigger19687]

I still say that it is hard to get a TRUE number of sales when some are only sold in 1-3 states, but others are sold in ALL states. When you divide and compare it doesn't look as bad.

Still wish I could afford a Tesla :mrgreen:

 

[xylhim]

I blame the dealerships. You will never have a salesman point to the Spark EV over the gas version; the customer has to want the EV in the first place or it never even gets a test drive. The same case can be made for the volt which explains its decline in sales over the last year.

 

[gra]

I blame the dealerships. You will never have a salesman point to the Spark EV over the gas version; the customer has to want the EV in the first place or it never even gets a test drive. The same case can be made for the volt which explains its decline in sales over the last year.

I disagree on the reason for the Volt sales drop off; I believe that's due to the Volt having real nationwide competition, i.e the Ford Energis and the PiP, both of which are advertised. Once the Soul EV and e-Golf are out, assuming they are sold nationally I think we'll see LEAF sales plateau and then drop, until the 2nd gen arrives.

 

[cwerdna]

I still say that it is hard to get a TRUE number of sales when some are only sold in 1-3 states, but others are sold in ALL states. When you divide and compare it doesn't look as bad.

No, Fiat 500e was only sold in CA until very recently. Fit EV was only sold...err... leased in a handful of states. Rav4 EV is only sold in CA. Smart ED was only available in 10 states for awhile (http://insideevs.com/smart-fortwo-electric-drive-to-finally-be-available-nationwide-in-february/).

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/09/09/california-has-sold-102440-evs-since-volt-leaf-went-on-sale/ says

Californians buy approximately 40 percent of all the PEVs sold in the U.S. According to data collected by the California Air Resources Board,

 

[Sesamecrunch]

I blame the dealerships. You will never have a salesman point to the Spark EV over the gas version; the customer has to want the EV in the first place or it never even gets a test drive. The same case can be made for the volt which explains its decline in sales over the last year.

I disagree on the reason for the Volt sales drop off; I believe that's due to the Volt having real nationwide competition, i.e the Ford Energis and the PiP, both of which are advertised. Once the Soul EV and e-Golf are out, assuming they are sold nationally I think we'll see LEAF sales plateau and then drop, until the 2nd gen arrives.

I think the Volt is suffering from customer anticipation of the next model year announcements.

 

[NomadMac]

As I mentioned in another post, at the recent Electric Drive event in San Rafael, Ford and Chevy didn't even bother to show up. Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, SMART and FIAT were all there.

Many people ask about my Spark EV. They've never heard of it, so there's no mindshare.

 

[buickanddeere]

I would speculate that Spark EV sales are low because the average consumer doesn't want one? The EV market is about compliance for manufactures. The pent up demand supply a niche market for hard core environmentalists and corporations wanting to make a "statement" are filled.
For the general public to realize than an EV can be an economical 2nd short range run about or a science project for a tinkerer is going to be a slow market to grow.

 

[sv650john]

Apart from the marketing issues, from a usability standpoint I think the charging infrastructure and lack of DCFC is an achilles heel of the Spark EV.

Within California -

It's not possible at all to drive between LA to SF, there are no fast chargers in between.

It's *barely* possible to drive between LA to San Diego, requiring a 30 min fast charge for what would be a 2 hr trip in a gas car. That potentially makes it a 25% longer journey, assuming that the two DCFC's along the route are 1) actually working, 2) not occupied and 3) open 24 hours. Range anxiety would be in full effect for anyone making that drive

The 3.3kw charging (7 hours on L2) is too long to actually be usable on a day-to-day basis. I think 7 hrs is an overnight charge for most.

I think the reality is that the Spark EV has a operating radius of 40 miles from home, up to 80 miles only *if* you plan on going to your destination and have a plan to charge for 7 hours, which isn't necessarily the case for most people.


A potential solution for this (assuming Chevy actually wants to push sales of the Spark EV) is to setup a network of dealers where there will always be gas car(s) on standby for EV drivers. So my trip from San Diego to LA would involve driving to a nearby dealership, swap cars, and continue on my trip. Return journey would be the reverse and I'd come back to a fully charged EV. (Somewhat similar to the Fiat 500/Enterprise rental deal).
I'd even pay a small fee for this, say $20-30/day if the gas was included with the rental and I can plug in my EV at the dealership.

 

[xylhim]

Apart from the marketing issues, from a usability standpoint I think the charging infrastructure and lack of DCFC is an achilles heel of the Spark EV.

Within California -

It's not possible at all to drive between LA to SF, there are no fast chargers in between.

It's *barely* possible to drive between LA to San Diego, requiring a 30 min fast charge for what would be a 2 hr trip in a gas car. That potentially makes it a 25% longer journey, assuming that the two DCFC's along the route are 1) actually working, 2) not occupied and 3) open 24 hours. Range anxiety would be in full effect for anyone making that drive

The 3.3kw charging (7 hours on L2) is too long to actually be usable on a day-to-day basis. I think 7 hrs is an overnight charge for most.

I think the reality is that the Spark EV has a operating radius of 40 miles from home, up to 80 miles only *if* you plan on going to your destination and have a plan to charge for 7 hours, which isn't necessarily the case for most people.


A potential solution for this (assuming Chevy actually wants to push sales of the Spark EV) is to setup a network of dealers where there will always be gas car(s) on standby for EV drivers. So my trip from San Diego to LA would involve driving to a nearby dealership, swap cars, and continue on my trip. Return journey would be the reverse and I'd come back to a fully charged EV. (Somewhat similar to the Fiat 500/Enterprise rental deal).
I'd even pay a small fee for this, say $20-30/day if the gas was included with the rental and I can plug in my EV at the dealership.

If you're going from LA to San Diego and are too impatient to wait 30 mins for a full quick charge, then just wait 10 minutes instead; you'd have enough range to still make it to San Diego and you can L2 charge or quick charge once you're there. It will take you 10 minutes at least to swap for the gas car anyways.

 

[cwerdna]

Apart from the marketing issues, from a usability standpoint I think the charging infrastructure and lack of DCFC is an achilles heel of the Spark EV.

Within California -

It's not possible at all to drive between LA to SF, there are no fast chargers in between.

Not possible?

Last year, TonyWilliams of the San Diego area did http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=207811 in his Rav4 EV, which has NO DC FC capability. He drove his Rav4 EV from the San Diego area all the way up to border and then began his rally back down. But, the Rav4 EV has a 10 kW on-board charger.

The Tesla Roadster listed at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=308648#p308648 also had no DC FC capability but from http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/charging/high-power-wall-connector, it looks like it has a 16.8 kW OBC.

Tony also did BC2BC 2012 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=198034) in a Leaf and back then, there was no CHAdeMO DC FC infrastructure between So Cal and San Jose. He was able to fly thru OR and WA thanks to the CHAdeMO infrastructure of http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm.

The '12 Leaf he used back then only had a 3.3 kW OBC (pulls ~3.8 kW from the wall 240 volts, IIRC).

 

[cwerdna]

I would speculate that Spark EV sales are low because the average consumer doesn't want one? The EV market is about compliance for manufactures. And to supply a niche market for hard core enviromentists , somebody that wants an economical 2nd short range run about or a science project for a tinkerer.

Nissan is going WELL beyond CA ZEV compliance. Tesla makes and sells no ICEVs, so it's not really about compliance for them, but they do make $ selling ZEV credits to others: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/17/tesla-sells-most-zev-green-car-credits-gm-buys-most/ (and http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevcredits/2012zevcredits.htm).

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would speculate that Spark EV sales are low because the average consumer doesn't want one? The EV market is about compliance for manufactures. And to supply a niche market for hard core enviromentists , somebody that wants an economical 2nd short range run about or a science project for a tinkerer.

Nissan is going WELL beyond CA ZEV compliance. Tesla makes and sells no ICEVs, so it's not really about compliance for them, but they do make $ selling ZEV credits to others: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/17/tesla-sells-most-zev-green-car-credits-gm-buys-most/ (and http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevcredits/2012zevcredits.htm).

Starting in 2012, the six "Large Vehicle Manufacturers" (LVM) were required to sell a minimum number of California Air Resources Board - Zero Emission Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) qualifying vehicles for compliance in California:


Manufacturer - ZEV used for CARB compliance:

Ford - Focus EV
Honda - Fit EV
Chrysler/Fiat - 500e
Toyota - Rav4 EV, iQ EV
GM Chevrolet - Spark EV
Nissan - LEAF


For model years 2015 and beyond, both LVM and Intermediate Vehicle Manufacturers (IVM) must comply with CARB-ZEV:


BMW - i3
Fiat/Chrysler - 500e
Ford - Focus EV, hydrogen by 2018?
General Motors - Spark EV, potential "200 mile EV moon-shot", hydrogen by 2018?
Honda - absolutley hydrogen
Hyundai - absolutley hydrogen
Kia - Soul EV
Mazda - Demio EV
Daimler/Mercedes - B-Class ED, Smart ED, hydrogen by 2018
Nissan - LEAF, eNV-2000
Toyota - absolutley hydrogen
Volkswagen - eGolf


Auto manufacturers that are NOT subject to CARB-ZEV due to their small sales in California. These additional manufacturers are required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV):

Tesla
Mitsubishi
Fuji Heavy Industry (Subaru)
Jaguar Land Rover
Volvo



Model Year - ZEV Credit Percent Requirement

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

 

[TonyWilliams]

Apart from the marketing issues, from a usability standpoint I think the charging infrastructure and lack of DCFC is an achilles heel of the Spark EV.

Within California -

It's not possible at all to drive between LA to SF, there are no fast chargers in between.

Not possible?

Last year, TonyWilliams of the San Diego area did http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=207811 in his Rav4 EV, which has NO DC FC capability. He drove his Rav4 EV from the San Diego area all the way up to border and then began his rally back down. But, the Rav4 EV has a 10 kW on-board charger.

This weekend, I intend to drive the 500 miles from San Diego to the San Francisco Bay area, and return, in my Toyota RAV4 EV with a prototype CHAdeMO inlet. If there was a CHAdeMO station in San Luis Obispo, I could make the trip entirely on CHAdeMO.

My last CHAdeMO station will be Santa Barbara before driving 233 miles to the next CHAdeMO in Monterey.

I will charge in Los Angeles area, Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo (40 amp J1772 AC), and Monterey. I can get there in one day, and return in one day.

 

[gra]

This weekend, I intend to drive the 500 miles from San Diego to the San Francisco Bay area, and return, in my Toyota RAV4 EV with a prototype CHAdeMO inlet. If there was a CHAdeMO station in San Luis Obispo, I could make the trip entirely on CHAdeMO.

My last CHAdeMO station will be Santa Barbara before driving 233 miles to the next CHAdeMO in Monterey.

I will charge in Los Angeles area, Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo (40 amp J1772 AC), and Monterey. I can get there in one day, and return in one day.

Tony, you're a brave man to be trying this so early in the development cycle, after so few hookups. Are you going to have any backup along in case smoke starts pouring out from under the hood, or everything just goes tilt and shuts down? Someone with a truck, a tow hitch and a flatbed trailer or at least a cradle would seem to be a good idea.