AC and now Heater have gone on capricious AWOL

[iletric]

I suspect the designers/engineers for this heat system graduated from same class or maybe it is the least expensive module that all the carmakers decided to use.

That's funny. I like that.

None of the comments answer my 3 questions though. I guess, I can live with this combo temp power switch for another 32 months.

Actually, wife likes the car. I don't. In fact, not at all. Leased it for my kid's commute to school. It's a better alternative then some 5,000 dollar ICE junk that may need new tranny after 1000 miles and drips oil wherever it stops.

Bottomline is, I would take Leaf (my 2nd) anytime if it had 90 mile range. Unfortunately Nissan can't get it together yet.

Thanks all for the feedback. Keep it coming.

 

[Pegasus]

the FIT EV has the same counterintuitive (to most humans) set up also… the AC button controls the heat.

I agree, that sounds counter-intuitive, at first. Follow me here: in an ICE car, heat is simply a waste product, so you just open and close a valve to adjust how much of that waste comes in to the ventilation system. You use the A/C button when you want to control whether or not the system draws additional power to reach your desired temperature. Traditionally, that's only been applicable to cooling (so we've all unfortunately become used to A/C meaning "make cooler air" instead of its literal "condition the air however needed" as EVlearner mentioned previously.) But in an EV, it requires additional power to either heat or cool, so it makes sense (to me at least) that we've been provided a single button that toggles using said additional power for either function. (I for one would be pissed if the system automatically started eating my range due to the temperature set point with no way to stop it.)

So I don't think of the system as heating and AC. I just think what temperature I want and how much fan I want and let the car take care of the rest.

That and how quickly/badly I want that temperature to be reached (sacrifice range on the altar of comfort or not.)

 

[iletric]

So, let me ask you this: Is your AC running when temp is on HI?
Or is it running only if you push (light up) defrost button?

I agree that one needs to be able to turn heat off and on, obviously. My problem is that the temp ring fools us by allowing us setting temps for no good reason unless "AC" light is lit. I see it as a flaw. A dumb one, to be sure. Why do I have no such dilemma in my Leaf?

For an EV there are way too many dumb, half-baked things in this Spark. Overall, I am disappointed. The car could have been so much smarter than the fat cats let it. I can see them in the conference rooms, none smarter than the other, waving things off, and going to lunch afterwards, feeling good about themselves. And no design engineer could tell them otherwise...

 

[jsca72]

So, let me ask you this: Is your AC running when temp is on HI?
Or is it running only if you push (light up) defrost button?

I agree that one needs to be able to turn heat off and on, obviously. My problem is that the temp ring fools us by allowing us setting temps for no good reason unless "AC" light is lit. I see it as a flaw. A dumb one, to be sure. Why do I have no such dilemma in my Leaf?

For an EV there are way too many dumb, half-baked things in this Spark. Overall, I am disappointed. The car could have been so much smarter than the fat cats let it. I can see them in the conference rooms, none smarter than the other, waving things off, and going to lunch afterwards, feeling good about themselves. And no design engineer could tell them otherwise...

Where are you seeing AC on any of the climate controls? On my Spark EV, I see "Temp" both on the LCD screen and as an actual button on temperature control dial; I see "Auto" on the LCD screen and as an actual button on the Mode dial; and I see the recirculation icon on a button on the fan control knob and on the LCD screen. I don't see any AC or heater buttons.

So in answer to your questions in a previous post:
1. "When I run heat, is the AC on as well?" I doubt it. The initial air is cold because it is cold outside.
2. "Is there a way to run heat without AC?" See 1.
3. "If the AC/TEMP is in OFF position what happens to temp control, i.e. does it become a joke?" I run my car all the time without Auto or Temp. But, are they a joke? No, actually now that you've made me analyze the climate control of my car, I might use them. They are kind of like Cruise Control for the climate system.

I love my Spark! Yes, some of its controls are different from my Accord's, but that's fine. It's like learning a new operating system on a computer. At first one thinks, this is stupid. It worked so well on the old system. Then one figures out how to use it and what it allows a person to do, and the old system becomes history.

 

[iletric]

@jsca72

Your 1. and 2. are guesses. In any car you can run or turn off AC without regard to the outside temp.

As far as 3. why don't you try this: Turn off the "AC" light, i.e. power down the TEMP button, turn your fan on to mid range, and keep turning your temp ring from LO to HI and back a few times. Air is blowing and NOTHING HAPPENS. Is that a smart thing to have in a car? Not in my book. The LO and HI knob only functions when the TEMP is powered up and it's useless when it's powered down, while fooling you into thinking it functions because the temp displays the same in both situations.

Here is what I'd like to see here: Two power buttons. One called AC that lights up BLUE when power on and another button called HEAT that lights up RED when power on. Now wouldn't that be lovely? I could actually pick and choose.

 

[jsca72]

@jsca72

Your 1. and 2. are guesses. In any car you can run or turn off AC without regard to the outside temp.

As far as 3. why don't you try this: Turn off the "AC" light, i.e. power down the TEMP button, turn your fan on to mid range, and keep turning your temp ring from LO to HI and back a few times. Air is blowing and NOTHING HAPPENS. Is that a smart thing to have in a car? Not in my book. The LO and HI knob only functions when the TEMP is powered up and it's useless when it's powered down, while fooling you into thinking it functions because the temp displays the same in both situations.

Here is what I'd like to see here: Two power buttons. One called AC that lights up BLUE when power on and another button called HEAT that lights up RED when power on. Now wouldn't that be lovely? I could actually pick and choose.

I'm really beginning to wonder if we have different climate controls. I do not have an AC light, button, or any place that says AC. Oh well, sorry I can't help you with your questions.

 

[iletric]

I just call it that way. It's that temp button on the left. I leased the car in the middle of summer and to turn on AC I had to power it up with it. That was the easy part. I had no clue it was to be used to power up heat as well. I have NEVER had to do that my Leaf so this was something brand new.

So...having said that...is your AC working what you run heat? Just our of curiousity.
Is there a way to turn AC off while heating? My guess is no, unless...
Is it possible AC + heat work together only if you activate the defrost button and otherwise AC is off while heating? No idea.

Yes, I'll live if I never learn the answers. The car has another 32 months with us, wife likes to drive it, and it takes us to SF and back. Something our 48,000-mile Leaf cannot do anymore because it is a 60-mile round trip, or Stinson beach which is a 70-mile round trip.

I may look into Kia Soul coming out this year with a supposed 120-mile range. BMW i3 and Mercedes B are both a losing proposition. I've been driving electric for over 2 years now, so I know what I want from a good EV. RANGE. That's the name of the game now. One needs at least 30% buffer to the real range the car can deliver. Heat, cold, speed, acceleration, hills all eat up your range and you always end up with 70% of what you thought you have. In other words, a 100-mile car needs to be a 130-mile car to really do the trick.

 

[cwerdna]

Here is what I'd like to see here: Two power buttons. One called AC that lights up BLUE when power on and another button called HEAT that lights up RED when power on. Now wouldn't that be lovely? I could actually pick and choose.

The '13+ Leafs (I have one) have separate heat and AC buttons (skip to "Separate Heat button and Heater consumes less energy" of http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/). The indicator lights are colored yellow/amber, as are all the other indicator lights on the HVAC and to the left of the steering wheel.

I don't use their auto climate control but when that's off and AC and heat are both off, the temperature up/down buttons have no effect. When I want heat, I push the heat button and adjust the temp.

AC and heat can be on at the same time...

 

[EVlearner]

I may look into Kia Soul coming out this year with a supposed 120-mile range. BMW i3 and Mercedes B are both a losing proposition. I've been driving electric for over 2 years now, so I know what I want from a good EV. RANGE. That's the name of the game now. One needs at least 30% buffer to the real range the car can deliver. Heat, cold, speed, acceleration, hills all eat up your range and you always end up with 70% of what you thought you have. In other words, a 100-mile car needs to be a 130-mile car to really do the trick.

Hi, curious re your thoughts on BMW and Mercedes. The BMW has the range extender which could be useful... do you mean just the price, paying extra for the name? I also heard that VW will be coming out with a few cars.. of course all these manufacturer's say what they will to jump on the latest bandwagon/good PR list... so far Nissan and to GM to the extent of the Volt have put their money where their mouths are. And Tesla of course.

Hoping in a few years there will be a lot viable options. The range drop due to cold temps hitting the folks back East big time, (for the FIT EV) ... I noticed some drop with the Spark EV based on what is posted here but does not seem as severe. Apparently the LEAF does not suffer the same range drop due to cold weather.

 

[fengshui]

For kicks, I tested the function of the temperature selector with TEMP disabled today at lunch. Here's what I found. With TEMP off, the temperature setting does have a minor effect. Here are my tests, which were performed with an exterior temperature of about 75:

• LOW: Fan runs at full speed, vents are set to upper body
  ~70-75 degrees: Fan runs at a low speed, vents still upper body
  HI: Fan runs at full speed, vents are set to feet

My guess is that the temperature setting would act to pull in cool or warm air from outside the car if doing so would change the temperature in the correct direction. As such, setting the car to LO without TEMP activated could provide benefit in the sort of situations where the interior was hot but the exterior much cooler. Turning on TEMP would have a much faster effect, but at the cost of battery.

I think the existing design is pretty good for an EV, as it grants you absolute control of whether energy is used for climate control or not. As others have noted, in an EV there's no free heat, so you need to expressly request heat or cooling, either through the TEMP button, the Defrost button, or the Auto button.

 

[cwerdna]

I also heard that VW will be coming out with a few cars.. of course all these manufacturer's say what they will to jump on the latest bandwagon/good PR list...
...
Apparently the LEAF does not suffer the same range drop due to cold weather.

What is this "VW will be coming out with a few cars"? Off the top of my head, for the US, I'm only aware of the e-Golf (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14166), at least w/a VW nameplate.

As for Leaf range drop during cold weather, oh yeah it'll drop. People who have the '11 and '12 Leaf w/the lame slow resistive heater almost certainly have it worse than those w/the hybrid (resistive and heat pump heater) that's standard on the SV and SL trims of the '13+ Leaf (but unavailable on the new cheaper S trim).

 

[iletric]

Happened again in mine. Was a rather cold ride to work this morning to say the least.

Did you power up your temp button? :mrgreen:

 

[EVlearner]

What is this "VW will be coming out with a few cars"? Off the top of my head, for the US, I'm only aware of the e-Golf (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14166), at least w/a VW nameplate.

As for Leaf range drop during cold weather, oh yeah it'll drop. People who have the '11 and '12 Leaf w/the lame slow resistive heater almost certainly have it worse than those w/the hybrid (resistive and heat pump heater) that's standard on the SV and SL trims of the '13+ Leaf (but unavailable on the new cheaper S trim).

RE VW, I guess I didn't read the article fully, I just skimmed it and read the headline.. apparently, VW coming out with a line of Plug In, not full EVs...
http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-to-go-all-in-on-electric-vehicles-to-establish-where-global-demand-lies/

As for LEAF, that's interesting. I was over on the Honda forum and one of the posters with the 2011 LEAF said the Leaf doesn't drop the way the FIT EV is doing (recent cold spell back East) and I was a little skeptical, esp since this poster is very annoyed with the FIT EV right now and wishes never leased the darn thing (understandably).. anyway I thought maybe it has to do with the thermal management system that the FIT EV has that draws so much power (whether you want it to or not) causing the big drop in range. doesn't seem to be the issue.

 

[iletric]

Interesting you mention FEV. Back in August we were deciding between FEV and Spark. We actually had only 24 hrs to decide to lease it or let it go and hope for the best with the Spark. The FEVs were all gone the next day. I did not care for the ride and the noise level either.

From all the posts of FEV owners I sensed there was something wrong with the range. Now that the winter range results are in, it confirms my suspicion. Maybe that's why it's the cheapest EV out there beside iMiev.

 

[blownb310]

.

From all the posts of FEV owners I sensed there was something wrong with the range. Now that the winter range results are in, it confirms my suspicion.

Actually, it was only 3 people with longer commutes that are sorry they leased the Fit EV. That's all. A few others have commented or contributed to the conversation, but on page four when asked if any would turn their cars in if given the chance, none of the others would. It's funny how quickly people drink the "it's no good" Kool Aid, because of one guy's opinion thread.

 

[EVlearner]

Interesting you mention FEV. Back in August we were deciding between FEV and Spark. We actually had only 24 hrs to decide to lease it or let it go and hope for the best with the Spark. The FEVs were all gone the next day. I did not care for the ride and the noise level either.

From all the posts of FEV owners I sensed there was something wrong with the range. Now that the winter range results are in, it confirms my suspicion. Maybe that's why it's the cheapest EV out there beside iMiev.

I'm actually not so sure the other EVs -- Spark EV, Fiat 500e, or even Focus EV would have much less range drop than the FEV. I think GM and Chrysler had the good sense or forethought not to lease/sell back east due to the cold weather. One wonders what Honda was thinking. I read that Focus EV experiencing range drop too, but to your point, if the range drop on the Focus EV is much less than the FEV, than Ford is doing something better. Hope Honda will come up with some solution for those who can't use the car with the limited range. Wish there were some testing of all cars so we could see how the different batteries/car stack up. Even the RAV 4e drivers speak of range loss but because their range is so much higher, the car is still able to make most commutes. Again, Toyota not officially leasing back East either.

As for FEV being the "cheapest", nah, I would say its more like Honda is willing to take a bigger loss (tax writeoff?) because the car was not moving off the lot at the higher price point, and with the cars being practically hand made at approx. 40 per month in Japan, they needed to keep the flow moving.

 

[cwerdna]

As for LEAF, that's interesting. I was over on the Honda forum and one of the posters with the 2011 LEAF said the Leaf doesn't drop the way the FIT EV is doing (recent cold spell back East) and I was a little skeptical, esp since this poster is very annoyed with the FIT EV right now and wishes never leased the darn thing (understandably).. anyway I thought maybe it has to do with the thermal management system that the FIT EV has that draws so much power (whether you want it to or not) causing the big drop in range. doesn't seem to be the issue.

I don't have any comparative stats. It could be anything # of things such as heater, HVAC system quirks, instrumentation (not sure if the Fit EV has a % SoC indicator), other factors that cause apparent range anxiety, etc. along w/user error and user unwilling to learn/use techniques to mitigate range loss (e.g. preheating while plugged in, using seat heaters, etc.)

There has been at least 1 person who complained about short range in their Leaf in Chicago winters, but that's a very long story from a person who has no charging capability at home, was misled by a dealer and not very cooperative when we tried to help her.

 

[somms]

Could you please list the details of what was replaced, part names, or numbers, etc.?
Thanks...

Ok, sofar the fix seems to have worked. No issues with the heating and the temps have been down into the 20's.

So this is what they replaced

176 WC
22851153 Heater

Here's the notes:

878 Faulty Electronic Control Unit Hardware 11111.11 Verified. Customer concern and used GDS 2 and found DTC B101D in Coolant Heater control module, check SI and found no PI's or bulletins for this concern. Checked SI Heater ac system and found no DTC B101D in Diag. charts. Did a updated program for coolant heater module and vehicle start to heat correctly. Checked SI for DTC D101D and found it in data communication electronic control unit hardware document ID: 2778727 in diagnostic aids it states that if DTCB101D is set as current, replace the appropriate device. Code is Current, replaced heater coolant heater and did vac and fill for coolant.

Hope that helps others having the same issues.

Looks like the Chevy Spark EV and Chevy Volt share the same Coolant Heater Control Module 22851153!?

FWIW: PIC5943 affecting 2013-2014 Chevy Volts Heaters (22851153) manufactured prior to 156th day of 2013 to be replaced: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?20578-2013-14-Volt-No-Heat-Issues-PIC5796-PIC5855-PIC5943&p=1166154#post1166154

 

[Nashco]

Another point of reference. I stumbled on this article geared towards GM techs:

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/December-Techlink-2013-F.pdf

Inoperative Spark EV Air Conditioning

On some 2014 Spark EV models (RPO EN0), the air conditioning may be inoperative and/or the Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) MIL (resembles a car with an exclamation mark in the middle) may be illuminated. A history DTC P0071 (Ambient Air Temperature Sensor Performance) may be set.

Use GDS2 to capture any DTC Freeze Frame or Failure Records prior to clearing the DTCs. If DTC P0071 is current (failed during the current key cycle), follow the appropriate Service Information diagnostics.

If the vehicle build date is before July 15, 2013 and the DTC is set in history, or there is an intermittent no air conditioning concern, the Hybrid Powertrain Control Module 2 (HPCM2) software needs to be updated. Program the K114B (HPCM2) software using TIS2Web. Thanks to Brian Ciaverella

Hopefully this helps somebody that isn't having luck with their local service guys.

Bryce

 

[Anonymous]

My ac/heat/all air stopped working about a month ago. For awhile I was able to get it back on by opening and slamming shut the glove compartment.. Not anymore.now I get nothing. No codes no check engine light are shown. Does anyone know what's the cause of it?