Considering a used Spark EV

[egizzi]

Howdy-

I owned a 2013 Leaf for 3 years, leased. My 2017 Bolt lease is ending in 1 month though I may extend it.

I have a level 2 charger at home.

Pandemic changes...not sure what our commute will be like for the next few years. My commute (stable job) is 11 miles each way and I will probably drive to work 3 out of 5 days.

I've been looking at a used EV with non-Bolt range. For not a lot of money. The Spark EV is intriguing. Questions:

1) A quick read suggests the 2016 is the best year. Yes?
2) Never bought a USED EV before. The battery health is the most important. Any ideas on how I can assess battery health as a potential buyer?
3) I've enjoyed a couple of safety features on my Bolt, mostly the lane change warning on the side view mirrors. I see that can exist in the Spark EV as the Driver Confidence Package. For the life of me, I can't find that in a used Spark EV. It doesn't seem standard in the 2LT. Was it a rare add-on? Or am I wrong about it being an option in the 2LT model.

Also looking at a used 2013 Leaf with a new battery 2 years ago for 5500.

Used Spark EV 2LTs seem to be roughly 8-10k in my area (Bay Area)

Appreciate the wisdom!

 

[ZNuts]

I'm looking as well, my thread is here as well. I think I can answer some of your questions.

1) I'm not sure. 2015 is identical to 2016, AFAIK. 2014 got a larger battery from a different source but mi/kwh is supposed to be higher so total miles are supposed to be the same. I just don't see much 2016 in my area (Seattle metro)

2) Two way to do this. One is using an ODBII reader + Torque Pro app on your phone/tablet. There are videos link on how to do that. The other is just to look up the usage detail page on the screen and together with kwh used to calculate the estimated total battery capacity. Note that both method are an estimate.. Example, you see 20.5 % total battery used (add them up), and 3.2 kwh used so 3.2kwh / 20.5% = 15.6 kwh (at 100%)

3) I'm quite sure that's not even an option on Spark EV.

I personally don't care much about LT2 since I'll unlikely ever need the DCFC, nor do I care much about the pleather seat they got, but that's personal preference. I haven't found much price difference between LT and LT2 here.

 

[SparkE]

Also looking at a used 2013 Leaf with a new battery 2 years ago for 5500.

Used Spark EV 2LTs seem to be roughly 8-10k in my area (Bay Area)

Um, I absolutely LOVE my SparkEV, but if I had the choice of a Spark at $9K or a 2013 LEAF with a fairly new battery (?does it still have 12 bars of battery health?) I would get the LEAF. The LEAF is larger, and has a bigger trunk. And it might have a 6 kW charger built into the car (the Spark's charger is 3.3 kW). And if it has a new battery, you can "baby" it :

(1) never charge the battery when it is hot - charge overnight starting at midnight, or plug in early in the morning when temps are in the 50s or 60s.

(2) In the 2013, you can set an option to charge the battery to only 80%, which *really* helps prolong the life of the finicky, non-cooled LEAF batteries.

(3) Try and keep the charge of the battery between 30% - 80% (in general - if you need the range, then charge it all the way up that day. If you have to run it down to 8 miles, do it . But charge it back to 30% ASAP.)

(4) Don't let the battery sit at 100% for long periods of time. Charge up to 80% overnight, then charge from 80% to 100% the next morning (it should take about 45 minutes).

Cons :
- they are pretty ugly (but beauty is in the eye of the beholder)
- if you don't baby the battery, it will degrade fairly quickly

 

[egizzi]

Great thoughts. Thank you!

I had the fish-eyed leaf for 3 years so I know it has a unique look. My kids just laughed at it. And I trickle charged it mostly for 3 years other than when I DCFCharged it when I was traveling a longer distance (rare).

I charge overnight usually, Level 2, and the faster charger in the Leaf might be worth it.

The extra space is good as well.

The only new thought in my head is to get a used Bolt Premier with all the fancy safety things. Batteries degrade. My need to drive will lessen as I get older (58 next week). Starting with a higher battery capacity (Bolt) may make the car functional for much longer as the battery degrades.

 

[SparkE]

Well, if you aren't in a hurry, I project that prices of used Bolts will go down as more of them come off lease. There are currently over a 1000 used Bolts across the country that are available via online posts. (cargurus, et. al.).

A lot of people seem to have gone the "I will get a new Bolt instead of buying my lease return, since I can get a new car for only $4K-$6K more expensive than the 3-year-old car I am turning in". So they are piling up. Some Bolts have been listed for 5 months or longer.

If you wait 6-12 months, and just keep your eyes open (checking every day or two) for the car you want at the price you want, you can probably find a used Bolt for under $15K, or maybe even $12-13K shortly (I have already seen some ~40K mile Bolts for about $17K). Why?

(1) I think there will be a glut of used Bolts due to people returning instead of buying leases. (there were over 50K sold since 2017).
(2) The 2020 Bolt has a slightly larger battery, slightly longer range, better charging curve
(3) The "refresh" on the Bolt should be out in 2021, making the earlier models not as "attractive", and the "EUV" (based on the Bolt platform) will also be coming out. Those vehicles should fast charge at a higher rate, and probably have a longer range, making the "old" Bolt passé .

And the Bolt's battery doesn't degrade as quickly as the one in the Spark EV. I have read posts from people who have put over 75K mils, some even over 100K miles, and they report less than 10% battery capacity loss.

Now, the ONE "bell & whistle" feature that I would like to have just isn't available on the Bolt (yet) : adaptive cruise control (i.e., you set speed to 65 mph, and somebody slows down in front of you, so the adaptive cruise control slows your car down and keeps a safe distance until there is nobody still in front of you and then it automatically goes back to your previously set speed). All the other stuff I really don't care about.

I will probably buy a used Bolt sometime in the next 2-3 years to complement my "suburban" vehicle, the Spark w/ DCFC. One for medium-length trips, one for closer-to-home trips. And put the gasmobile on a per-mile-driven insurance policy (since it will probably be driven less than 2000 miles a year).

 

[Kermit]

I would go for the Bolt. The quality of how the Bolt is built feels much higher than that of the Spark.

 

[SmokeyPete]

I agree. Obviously if you find a Spark EV at a killer price go for it but the Bolt EV does make a road-trip much less painful.
An 11 mile commute is a non-issue for the Spark EV though.

I kinda solved the lack of charging control on the Spark EV long term by buying an OpenEVSE and setting it to 1-1/2 to 2 hours before I exit my garage for the night. There is a charging schedule on the Spark EV center console but it is a huge headache.

 

[SparkE]

I kinda solved the lack of charging control on the Spark EV long term by buying an OpenEVSE and setting it to 1-1/2 to 2 hours before I exit my garage for the night. There is a charging schedule on the Spark EV center console but it is a huge headache.

You can set the charging to be "departure"

http://mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5180#p21177

Here is a link to a PDF copy of the 2015 Spark EV manual :
https://my.gm.com/content/dam/gmownerce ... dPrint.pdf

Download it so that you can then easily search for things, such as "Programmable Charging Modes " (which starts on Page 5-21).

There are 3 types of Charge Mode Status:

Immediately: The vehicle starts charging as soon as it is connected to an electrical outlet.

Departure Time: The vehicle estimates the charging start time considering the programmed departure time for the current day of the week. Charging begins at the start time and is complete by the departure time only if sufficient time is allowed after the charge cord is plugged in.

Rate & Departure Time: The vehicle estimates the charging start time based on the utility rate schedule, utility rate preference, and the programmed departure time for the current day of the week. The vehicle will charge during the least expensive rate periods to achieve a full battery charge by the departure time. Electrical rate information from the utility company for the charging location is required for this mode. Also, if the selected electric rate settings result in a very long charge completion time, the vehicle will start charging immediately upon plug-in. For example, if the electric rate table is set up with all “Peak rates and the rate preference is to charge during “Off-Peak” rates only, then the vehicle will start charging immediately upon plug-in.

So, you need to :

1- set "Rate & Departure Time" (Page 5-22)

2- Edit Departure Time (set "departure time" to be 30 mins before your electric rates go up : 8am?) - (Page 5-22)

3- set your rates (Peak, Mid-Peak, and Off-Peak Rates) - you can just set Peak and Off-peak (10pm-8am) (Starts on 5-23)

4- Set your "Rate Preference Selection" to "Charge during Off-Peak Rates" (5-24)

(Note that if the vehicle won't fully charge between the "start" and "stop" times, it may start charging earlier. This shouldn't be a problem if you use 240V charging; if you use the 120V EVSE that came with the car, you will probably want to plug the vehicle in only after 10pm on those days that the "charge level" of the vehicle is less than 50%. You will have to see if the car starts charging immediately if you plug in the 120V EVSE when the battery is only at (say) 20%.)

(I think that the car will 'chirp' twice at you when you plug in if programmable charging is active.)


Another preference is "Priority Charging" - if this is enabled, the vehicle will ALWAYS charge up to 40% SoC (State of Charge) no matter what, and once 40% is reached it will "delay" charging until whatever you set.

Also, you can *always* override delayed charge (Page 9-36):

To temporarily override a delayed charge event, unplug the charge cord from the charge port and then plug it back in within five seconds. A single horn chirp will sound and charging will begin immediately.

To cancel a temporary override, unplug the charge cord, wait for 10 seconds, and then plug the charge cord back in. A double horn chirp will sound and charging will be delayed.

Also, the EVSE might consume power (pull electricity from the wall) even if not charging - for example, to cool or heat the battery. That is a good thing!