New Owner 2015 Spark

[AlexH]

Hello
I'm the new owner of a 2015 with 48k km, just got the car 3 weeks ago and i'm getting used to it.
When i bought it the dealer stated that the SOH is around 90% but i never saw the paper (yes i should've asked for the paper)
Not sure if is worth mentioning but is a cold snap (-12C and -20C) and for the moment i can't leave my car plugged over night so i charge when needed using the L2 charging

I've played with torque pro and the bolt PID's and i get 14.9 as battery capacity..But something doesn't really add up for me, yesterday i took the car to work, parked inside and when i plug in the charger i had 3 bars on the center console display.
To charge it fully the charging system showed 14.7kwh

How trusty is the torque pro battery cap ?

Based on my observation i have more then what it displayed
Does the low temps affect the battery capacity ?

Also when is below -10C i do get a "Propulsion reduced " warning but i doesn't seem to affect the car (i wait for 2-3 minutes before driving and i take it slowly when is cold

I do enjoy the car so far

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Hello
I'm the new owner of a 2015 with 48k km, just got the car 3 weeks ago and i'm getting used to it.
When i bought it the dealer stated that the SOH is around 90% but i never saw the paper (yes i should've asked for the paper)
Not sure if is worth mentioning but is a cold snap (-12C and -20C) and for the moment i can't leave my car plugged over night so i charge when needed using the L2 charging

I've played with torque pro and the bolt PID's and i get 14.9 as battery capacity..But something doesn't really add up for me, yesterday i took the car to work, parked inside and when i plug in the charger i had 3 bars on the center console display.
To charge it fully the charging system showed 14.7kwh

How trusty is the torque pro battery cap ?

Based on my observation i have more then what it displayed
Does the low temps affect the battery capacity ?

Also when is below -10C i do get a "Propulsion reduced " warning but i doesn't seem to affect the car (i wait for 2-3 minutes before driving and i take it slowly when is cold

I do enjoy the car so far

I find TorquePro to be quite accurate. From my own experience, that of a friend of mine and other posts on this forum, a 2015 Spark EV with 30K miles (48 km) on the ODO can expect to have a battery capacity of around 15 kWh. I believe temperature will impact the battery capacity too but I am still trying to figure out how much and if it will recover as the battery warms up as summer approaches. I can't comment on the "Propulsion Reduced" message as it relates to very low temperatures.

 

[AlexH]

When charging on a L2 does the car draw electricity other then the battery ?

I've did a quick test today, charged with the high speed up to 95%, went for some errands and I was down to 45%, according to torque pro, battery temp was around 18C

i've charge it to 100%, and it took 9.87kwh (on the charging app), now that gives me around18kwh, (987/55=17.94) which doesn't make sense either :?:

Just trying to understand the whole picture

 

[MrDRMorgan]

When charging on a L2 does the car draw electricity other then the battery ?

I've did a quick test today, charged with the high speed up to 95%, went for some errands and I was down to 45%, according to torque pro, battery temp was around 18C

i've charge it to 100%, and it took 9.87kwh (on the charging app), now that gives me around18kwh, (987/55=17.94) which doesn't make sense either :?:

Just trying to understand the whole picture

If you are using TorquePro with the Bolt PIDS, I would use the TorquePro value given for Battery Capacity. My data shows the value for Battery Capacity does not change as the SoC value changes. As an example, consecutive data for my 2016 Spark EV shows the following:
20 Dec 18: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 98.8
21 Dec 10: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 38.4

 

[AlexH]

As an example, consecutive data for my 2016 Spark EV shows the following:
20 Dec 18: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 98.8
21 Dec 10: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 38.4

yes i know my BC doesn't change no matter how low or high my battery is

my point is that doing the math of BC from the charger is wrong, since charging is not 100% efficient, the station will charge you by the electricity that is pushing to the car not or what actually goes in the battery.

I didn't realized the above point when i wrote my post, that's where i went wrong with my logic

I was wondering if there`s a given ballpark range of energy loss

 

[MrDRMorgan]

As an example, consecutive data for my 2016 Spark EV shows the following:
20 Dec 18: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 98.8
21 Dec 10: BC = 16.1 and SoC = 38.4

yes i know my BC doesn't change no matter how low or high my battery is

my point is that doing the math of BC from the charger is wrong, since charging is not 100% efficient, the station will charge you by the electricity that is pushing to the car not or what actually goes in the battery.

I didn't realized the above point when i wrote my post, that's where i went wrong with my logic

I was wondering if there`s a given ballpark range of energy loss

Level 1 is about 75% efficient and Level 2 is about 85% efficient as measured from the wall outlet. I have not seen any data on DCFC.

 

[AlexH]

Thanks now i have the whole picture

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Thanks now i have the whole picture

If you use a Level 1 EVSE for 8 amp or 12 amp charging at home, you can use a Kil-A-Watt EZ power meter - available at Home Depot - to measure the amount of power in kWhs supplied from the wall outlet to the Spark EV.

 

[AlexH]

nice idea, thanks
I'm in the process of moving to a home, I'm in HOA setup with no charging at home so i just use the public system (5 min walk from my place), kinda of hassle with the cold that kills the range but it is manageable

I'm installing at my new place a 30A 240V circuit for L2 charging, yes the Spark is only able to get 20A (my charger that i will get is a 20A, cheaper) but I'm doing it for the future of if we get change EV, not a lot of cable to pull anyways.

 

[NORTON]

...I'm installing at my new place a 30A 240V circuit for L2 charging...

You should consider a 40A install because a lot of newer EV's are 7.2kW charging.

(you can't charge at the max of a circuit. there is an 80% continuous duty rule.)

 

[SparkE]

...I'm installing at my new place a 30A 240V circuit for L2 charging...

You should consider a 40A install because a lot of newer EV's are 7.2kW charging.

(you can't charge at the max of a circuit. there is an 80% continuous duty rule.)

Jus to be "Bindingly clear" (for future readers as well), to follow up on NORTON's point :

EVSEs, which are plugged in and active for HOURS are considered are "continuous use", and thus should never exceed an 80% 'max' power draw. Thus :
- a 30A circuit should never have an EVSE that will pull more than 24A (80% of 30)
- a 40A circuit should never have an EVSE that will pull more than 32A (80% of 40)
- a 50A circuit should never have an EVSE that will pull more than 40A (80% of 50)

a 'max' 24A EVSE (24A @ 240V) can provide a max of : 5.7 kW (~ 10.5 hours to pull 60 kWh, but there are efficiency issues, and battery balancing, so 60 kW from the wall won't end up giving you a 'full' battery from totally empty, so add 15% *and* an hour for balancing: so ~12.5 hours to full from dead empty).

a 'max' 32A EVSE (32A @ 240V) can provide a max of : 7.6 kW. The Bolt and other non-Tesla vehicles will pull a max of 7.2 kW. (~8.3 hours to pull 60 kWh, loss+balancing adds 1.2h + 1 hour, so ~10.5h 0-to-full). (If you could use all 7.6 kW: 7.9h + (.8 + 1h) = 9h45).

a 'max' 40A EVSE (32A @ 240V) *ON A CAR THAT CAN USE IT* can provide a max of : 9.6 kW. (~6.3 hours to pull 60 kWh, loss+balancing adds .9h + 1 hour, so ~8 1/2 h 0-to-full).

Now, the big difference in 'pricing' for all of those circuits is the wiring (you are going to be paying an electrician to do all of the work independently of the cost of the wiring, so THAT won't change). There's probably a slight increase in the price of the circuit breaker as well for a 50A breaker. Basically, (unless the wiring run is *really* long), the difference will be the difference in pricing between 10 gauge (30A), 8 gauge (40A) or 6 gauge (55A) wiring. (Actually, the electrician *might* charge you more to pull 6 gauge wiring, it's a pain-in-the arse.) So just ask the electrician how much extra it would cost to put in a 40A circuit. Then ask, what about 50A. The price diff between 30 and 40 shouldn't be much of an issue (?$50?, ?$85?), but the price jump to 50 *might* be several 100 dollars. But don't *tell* the electrician what you are expecting, just say "I'm thinking of future-proofing the installation, I just want to do this once, so what if we installed a 40A circuit, or a 50A? How much extra would that cost?" - And get the change in *writing* as an addendum to your work order, don't rely on word of mouth. "Hey, of course I trust you - I just don't want there to be any misunderstandings later, so lets just make sure everything we agreed to is written down - it's so much simpler that way."

Anyhow, if you are paying somebody to do the work, the price difference in wiring cost is insignificant, and you might as well get the best install you can get. What if you end up with TWO EVs in a few years? Would it be nice to be able to add a 50% charge to *both* of them in a 10-hour period?